Rocket from Balloon

Discussion in 'The Watering Hole' started by aerostadt, Nov 26, 2019.

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  1. Nov 26, 2019 #1

    aerostadt

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  2. Nov 26, 2019 #2

    BABAR

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    Interesting.
    I was thinking you could run a vertical launch tube up through the balloon itself to get the rocket on a vertical trajectory, but maybe they are high enough that a horizontal initial launch position will work.
     
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  3. Nov 26, 2019 #3

    Wallace

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    Just google "rockoon" ..you'll find more than Ya care to know about the concept..
     
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  4. Nov 26, 2019 #4

    Wallace

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    Getting "permission " is the problem..
     
  5. Nov 26, 2019 #5

    BeyondEarth

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  6. Nov 26, 2019 #6

    djs

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    LEO Aerospace seems to have not done much other than lots of rendered pictures and one launch of a rocket with an H motor off a tethered balloon that hit roughly 2-3k feet.
     
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  7. Nov 26, 2019 #7

    boatgeek

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    Dangit, here I thought this was going to be another 13-year-old kid with their brilliant new idea--launching a rocket from a balloon. Gotta put away the popcorn now. :)
     
  8. Nov 26, 2019 #8

    Wallace

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    Interesting.. From where does their authority derive?
     
  9. Nov 26, 2019 #9

    Wallace

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    SpaceFund Sectors of Interest
    SpaceFund is interested in a number of sectors of the space economy, specifically Transportation, Communication, Human Factors, Supplies, and Energy. In the coming months we will post SFR ratings for companies from all of these sectors, providing a robust overview of the state of frontier-enabling companies across the industry. To begin, we have created an SFR database for the Earth-to-Space sub-sector of Transportation (launch), as well as a database for the Beyond Earth Orbit sub-sector of Communication, the Habitats sector of Human Factors, and the Satellite Servicing sector of Supply Chain. We also created a special database in honor of the 50th anniversary of the Apollo landing, called the Moon List that catalogs those companies who are working on a permanent return to the Moon. Please check back frequently to view new sub-sector databases, and sign up to receive our emails to be notifie
     
  10. Nov 26, 2019 #10

    Wallace

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    Because all I see is allotta this nonsense..Oh, and banging away at trying to get me to "sign up"..
     
  11. Nov 26, 2019 #11

    BeyondEarth

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    They are a NewSpace venture capital company and contact the companies directly and via conferences.
    "SpaceFund invests in visionary yet practical high-growth startups addressing the multi-billion dollar space markets that will both enable and benefit from the space revolution. "
    You don't need to sign-up, it is for investors in NewSpace.
    There is another database that is self-reported, but it is harder to use: https://newspacehub.co/
     
  12. Nov 27, 2019 #12

    Wallace

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    Gotcha. Still get the feeling they're selling things that do not belong to them?
     
  13. Nov 27, 2019 #13

    Wallace

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    Can I sell asteroids? If so, I'm gonna invest in a website, telescope and printer..
     
  14. Nov 27, 2019 #14

    boatgeek

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    It doesn't exactly look like they're selling things that don't belong to them, at least no more so than Vanguard does when it sells mutual funds. If SpaceFund is a VC company, they're buying stock pre-IPO in new space companies. Anything that pays off will pay off big, but there will be far more failures than payoffs. Whether that's better than Vegas odds remains to be seen... :)
     
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  15. Nov 27, 2019 #15

    Wallace

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    But by definition they sell things that don't belong to them..
     
  16. Nov 27, 2019 #16

    Wallace

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    Anyone interested in an asteroid. I should have plenty for sale as soon as my new shipment of Chinese stuff arrives. Just ordered a printer, telescope and extra fancy website. Suspect I'm "pushing the limits" i f I add a congressperson or two to my order?
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2019
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  17. Nov 29, 2019 #17

    Nytrunner

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    An actual company should have the funds needed to secure authorization (as a launch provider instead of a teenager or student project) as well as develop the control mechanisms needed to steer it vertical from an off-angle launch (instad of trying something weird like launching from an annular balloon or some multi balloon rig with a gap in the middle)

    Is it actually going to be cost-effective? I don't know
     
  18. Nov 29, 2019 #18

    BABAR

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    Seems like it would be possible to use a single round or vertically oval balloon with a single tube to running up the middle serving as a launch tube a little bit like a bazooka. You balance the weight so that the heaviest weight would be at the bottom so the thing with orient itself automatically parallel with gravity nose up.

    The top of the tube penetrates the superior portion of the balloon but the balloon is sealed around the sides,

    You can use a powder charge at the bottom of the well or a CO2 cartridge to eject the rocket up the tube. The advantage being even if you use a powder charge with flame the flame would be directed away from the balloon surface when it exits the top, so you’re less likely to Light your balloon on fire. You set the rocket motor to ignite after the rocket clears the balloon so your rocket motor doesn’t light the balloon on fire.

    Your initial velocity achievement with a powder charge at the bottom of the well or CO2 cartridge doesn’t add any mass to the Rocket itself so you have that going for you.

    Since you’re sending Rocket up Inside a tube, either you use fins which are stowed as it travels up the tube and snap into the place/deploy after it leaves the tube. On the other hand, you may not even need fins at all given you are going to be high in the atmosphere to begin with where there isn’t much air to be effective for the fins and since you were heading out in the space anyway where there is no gas for the fins to operate, you will eventually need gimbaled control motors anyway for guidance.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2019
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  19. Nov 29, 2019 #19

    Wallace

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    It would absolutely be a huge advantage launching from, say 110k or so. The logistics are workable. Getting permission....
     
  20. Nov 29, 2019 #20

    kuririn

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    Any advantage from launching from a balloon or balloons rather than launching at altitude from an aircraft?
    Wouldn't an aircraft have greater payload capacity than a balloon(s)?
    Plus, wouldn't a balloon's lifting capacity diminish as it ascends and expands due to thinner air?
    Isn't that why Stratolauncher and other aircraft were built instead of spending the money on a giant balloon(s)?
    Just musing.
    PS I'm glad they dubbed the concept "rockoon" instead of "ballket".:D
     
  21. Nov 29, 2019 #21

    jsdemar

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    Everyone who seriously considers a rockoon eventually realizes it is not practical nor cheaper. It is much simpler and cost effective to use a big dumb booster to get the upper stage to 100k feet. For a large balloon launch the logistics and operating costs are much greater than a rocket. The range area is huge, the abort costs are more than the rocket costs. Try recovering a large 2nd stage that is fully loaded and could land 100+ miles away. Also, the lifting gas (usually helium) cost is sky high.
    Launching at sea within a military test range is the most likely scenario that would get approved. Add the logistics of launching a rocket under a balloon from a ship at sea. That is how previous serious rockoons have been launched.
    I worked for NASA's scientific balloon program many years ago. Payloads of 1-3 tons under 400 ft diameter balloons to 20 miles up in remote places around the world. Large support crew waiting for days for good weather conditions. Significant gov interaction to prove the payload and 3000# balloon carcass weren't going to kill someone. And then try to add a rocket.
    A big dumb booster from a fixed range is an order of magnitude simpler and cheaper.
     
  22. Nov 29, 2019 #22

    BABAR

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    There you go spoiling a perfectly entertaining thread with facts.....
     
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  23. Nov 29, 2019 #23

    Wallace

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    Balloon=100's of dollars. Aircraft/crewmen/fuel=millions of dollars.
     
  24. Nov 29, 2019 #24

    kuririn

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    See post #21. Do you really think you can launch a 33 foot rocket with a balloon costing hundreds of dollars? Come on!
    Not if you're contracting the plane, facilities and personnel to launch a payload rocket. Like on the Cosmic Girl or Stratolauncher.
     
  25. Nov 29, 2019 #25

    jsdemar

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    100's of thousands of dollars for a real balloon that could lift a real rocket and launch apparatus. Plus the required FAA transponder and telemetry/control link.
     
  26. Nov 30, 2019 #26

    MClark

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    On the LEO website it says they plan to reuse the balloons. Having helped retrieve a standard size balloon out of desert picking this monster up would be a real chore.
    I think they are trying to attract investors with a system that is different.
     
  27. Nov 30, 2019 #27

    Wallace

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    Ok. How much for a B52? Point being, there's a reason behind the balloon..
     
  28. Nov 30, 2019 #28

    kuririn

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    How much to rent Cosmic Girl for one launch?
     
  29. Nov 30, 2019 #29

    Wallace

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    Is she sexy?
     
  30. Nov 30, 2019 #30

    kuririn

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    And how!
    [​IMG]
     
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