Rocket City Rednecks Jump the Shark, with very stupid potentially fatal accident.

tbonerocketeer

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Recent broadcasts of Rocket City Rednecks have reflected an increasingly negative image of our hobby and our approach to safety.

We hereby petition for the removal of any & all hobby model rocket & high power rocket motors from the network broadcasts of NatGeo, The Discovery Channel, any of their related affiliates, and any likenesses there of, for displaying improper use of these products in an unsafe and dangerous manner and for unsafe uses other than that on the product instructions stated use. We request the removal of these and similar episodes from future distribution, and/or public or private broadcasts and request any future use of these products be done in a safe, responsible manner.

The following members of Tripoli Rocketry Association & the National Association of Rocketry, hereby endorse this petition and request an apology from the Networks.


Name / TRA# / NAR# / Certification Level


Scott Kormeier / TRA 7764 / NAR 92711 / Level 3
Matt Fletcher / TRA 14257 / N/A / Level 0
Eric Foster / TRA 12959 / N/A / Level 3
David Walden / TRA 14201 / N/A / Level 0
Michael Ruzzi / TRA N/A / NAR 87149 LR / Level 2
Tom Hier / TRA 9826 / Level 3
Chad Rogers / NAR 89278 / Level 2
Gregg Discenza / NAR 91293 / Level 1
Lamar Martinez / NAR 77683 / Level 1
Adrian Butler / NAR 73787 / Tripoli 13524 Level 2
David Bauer / NAR 88405/ Level 1
Jarrett Dorough / NAR 92853 / Level 2
Jason Sargent / NAR 93283 / Level 1
Christopher Short/NAR 83000/TRA 10247/ L3
 

tbonerocketeer

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Guys, I am a licensed Pyro in the state of Alabama.....Oh wait, we don't have a state license yet although because of ignorance like this and others we are moving that direction. Several years back, the state decided we were going to be required to have a license for professional fireworks, and set the minimum standards so high that we had almost no one with enough experience to qualify. they wanted anyone who was a show lead to have 25 shows as a lead in this state, but how can you get that when you cannot be a lead. For most pyro guys, that would mean you would have shot for 25 years as very few of us get to shoot year round. I am one of the lucky ones who shoots all year. Needless to say that that year I have the state fire marshal show up at my July 4th show site with intentions of shutting my show down due to my age(I was 24) and also due to the 8" diameter shells the show had. I showed him how things go and what I was doing...He was impressed so know I get permitted with no questions asked. Sign this and let's try to stop more regulations.
 

luke strawwalker

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Recent broadcasts of Rocket City Rednecks have reflected an increasingly negative image of our hobby and our approach to safety.

We hereby petition for the removal of any & all hobby model rocket & high power rocket motors from the network broadcasts of NatGeo, The Discovery Channel, any of their related affiliates, and any likenesses there of, for displaying improper use of these products in an unsafe and dangerous manner and for unsafe uses other than that on the product instructions stated use. We request the removal of these and similar episodes from future distribution, and/or public or private broadcasts and request any future use of these products be done in a safe, responsible manner.

The following members of Tripoli Rocketry Association & the National Association of Rocketry, hereby endorse this petition and request an apology from the Networks.


Name / TRA# / NAR# / Certification Level


Scott Kormeier / TRA 7764 / NAR 92711 / Level 3
Matt Fletcher / TRA 14257 / N/A / Level 0
Eric Foster / TRA 12959 / N/A / Level 3
David Walden / TRA 14201 / N/A / Level 0
Michael Ruzzi / TRA N/A / NAR 87149 LR / Level 2
Tom Hier / TRA 9826 / Level 3
Chad Rogers / NAR 89278 / Level 2
Gregg Discenza / NAR 91293 / Level 1
Lamar Martinez / NAR 77683 / Level 1
Adrian Butler / NAR 73787 / Tripoli 13524 Level 2
David Bauer / NAR 88405/ Level 1
Jarrett Dorough / NAR 92853 / Level 2
Jason Sargent / NAR 93283 / Level 1
Jeff Roberts/NAR 38835/Level 0

Personally I don't care WHO owns WHO... they're ALL putting out the same crapola as the "flying snowmobiles" baloney attests... ALL of which FLOUTS the safety codes and makes rocketry look like a bunch of blast-happy morons out for kicks no matter what the risks, incapable of doing things in a sensible, safe way...

I don't expect they'll do anything of the sort (stop broadcasting or misusing hobby rocket motors) until they've milked EVERY LAST RED CENT they can POSSIBLY get out of their "rocketry coverage", but I WOULD at LEAST like to see a "disclaimer" similar to that on "Jackass" and other such "high quality programming" similar to RCR and the other rocketry shows saying something to the effect "do not attempt the a$$-clown stupidity you're about to see in this show-- some activities portrayed violate the model rocket safety code and high power rocketry safety codes and local laws, viewer discretion is advised". THAT isn't too much to ask...

Later! OL JR :)

PS. I know what G. Harry Stine would have to say about this "rocketry coverage"...
 

chadrog

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Just an observation - some folks are not copying / pasting the most up to date list, names are getting dropped.
 

UncleVanya

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Just an observation - some folks are not copying / pasting the most up to date list, names are getting dropped.

This is a silly way to do this. Collect the names in one place - have one person update that copy of the message rather than continuing to copy paste the thing over and over and over...
 

Sully

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Personally I don't care WHO owns WHO... they're ALL putting out the same crapola as the "flying snowmobiles" baloney attests... ALL of which FLOUTS the safety codes and makes rocketry look like a bunch of blast-happy morons out for kicks no matter what the risks, incapable of doing things in a sensible, safe way...

While many were upset in some way by the oddrocs show on Science Channel, it was filmed at LDRS and the TV production crew had a contract with Tripoli. Safety codes were followed to the satisfaction of the RSO and LCO at that event. That is entirely different from the RCR show which is unaffiliated with NAR/Tripoli and makes no pretense about any safety codes. If you want to get something accomplished besides hearing yourself talk (or reading yourself type), it would be best to focus on a reasonable target (RCR) and have a goal such as a disclaimer, which you have suggested. Broadening the scope to include other shows, networks, and other behavior that bothers you will only serve to dilute the effect of the petition, decrease the number of people willing to sign, decrease the chance of NAR/Tripoli helping out, and making it more likely that the TV network or whoever gets this will simply disregard it.
 

SSenesy

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While many were upset in some way by the oddrocs show on Science Channel, it was filmed at LDRS and the TV production crew had a contract with Tripoli. Safety codes were followed to the satisfaction of the RSO and LCO at that event. That is entirely different from the RCR show which is unaffiliated with NAR/Tripoli and makes no pretense about any safety codes. If you want to get something accomplished besides hearing yourself talk (or reading yourself type), it would be best to focus on a reasonable target (RCR) and have a goal such as a disclaimer, which you have suggested. Broadening the scope to include other shows, networks, and other behavior that bothers you will only serve to dilute the effect of the petition, decrease the number of people willing to sign, decrease the chance of NAR/Tripoli helping out, and making it more likely that the TV network or whoever gets this will simply disregard it.

I agree totally. I was going to write something similar once I got home from work but you've beat me to it.

LDRS should be a separate issue. Since their 3 year contract is over and needs to be renegotiated, it seems to me that there's an opportunity to refocus on Tripoli's membership concerns in any future show.
 

luke strawwalker

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While many were upset in some way by the oddrocs show on Science Channel, it was filmed at LDRS and the TV production crew had a contract with Tripoli. Safety codes were followed to the satisfaction of the RSO and LCO at that event. That is entirely different from the RCR show which is unaffiliated with NAR/Tripoli and makes no pretense about any safety codes. If you want to get something accomplished besides hearing yourself talk (or reading yourself type), it would be best to focus on a reasonable target (RCR) and have a goal such as a disclaimer, which you have suggested. Broadening the scope to include other shows, networks, and other behavior that bothers you will only serve to dilute the effect of the petition, decrease the number of people willing to sign, decrease the chance of NAR/Tripoli helping out, and making it more likely that the TV network or whoever gets this will simply disregard it.

Oh, I see... so Tripoli is the type of organization that doesn't even follow it's OWN RULES when it suits them, so long as the TV people and they have a "contract" that's all mutually beneficial and it's acceptable to their RSO and LCO... Glad you cleared that up...

Thank GOD the closest Tripoli outfit is 100 miles or so away...

Better to listen to myself talk or type than to listen to the type of drivel you just posted.

You have a nice day... remember, SAFETY THURD... seems to be the Tripoli motto...

Later! OL JR :)

PS... Okay, I'm done here... this is tiring, and it's degenerating to the point of the @$$ grabber defenders having NOTHING better to do than to antagonize anyone who disagrees, so further discussion is pointless... but consider this... if OTHER ROCKETEERS are as troubled by this sort of garbage on TV as those who've posted here, WHAT is the NON-ROCKETEER 99% of the population going to think??

Oh well, this won't matter to the @ss-clown defenders either... just so long as NOBODY gets between them and their having a good time... no matter how stupid or unsafe it is, or how bad it makes EVERYBODY look... and when something DOES happen to bring the hammer down, they'll be squalling the LOUDEST...

I expect nothing better... I've seen it all before, again and again...
Yall have a good one... and OUT!
 
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mkadams001

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Gotta be careful what you wish for on this one.

Do you really think that the coverage of LDRS is showing rocketry in a negative way? Sure, it is mostly odd rocks but, they show a lot of safe activity, they show what happens when things don't work and they show a lot of people having fun. They show how much goes into designing some of the rockets and the worries of the builders. It seems to me that that is a positive representation of rockery. Remember what LDRS stands for; Large and Dangerous Rocket Ships and that is what is expected. Anything else is a normal club launch.

Rocket City Rednecks is a much different show it is not all about rockets and they do have a disclaimer about not doing this stuff because it is dangerous. When things go wrong you see how dangerous it can be. You don't think that anyone would see that and learn from the failure? They have a good attitude about building their projects. Safety Third rule: 1. See rule number 3; 2. when in doubt see rule 1; 3. be safe at all times. It must work because you folks repeat all the time which puts safety in your mind all the time. It is a different way of looking at things but, it still seems to be positive.

I say be careful what you wish for is because when you want to keep everything in a nice little box and follow all the rules without bending them or setting the stage where you can go beyond the rules you will lose something. The petition uses the premise that anything beyond flying a normal rocket is representing the hobby in a bad light. You have statistical data to support the argument that there is a negative impact on the hobby. Read the statements in the petition and if you are willing to give up your freedoms the same way you expect a tv show to do then, sign the petition.
 

cwbullet

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Recent broadcasts of Rocket City Rednecks have reflected an increasingly negative image of our hobby and our approach to safety.

We hereby petition for the removal of any & all hobby model rocket & high power rocket motors from the network broadcasts of NatGeo, The Discovery Channel, any of their related affiliates, and any likenesses there of, for displaying improper use of these products in an unsafe and dangerous manner and for unsafe uses other than that on the product instructions stated use. We request the removal of these and similar episodes from future distribution, and/or public or private broadcasts and request any future use of these products be done in a safe, responsible manner.

The following members of Tripoli Rocketry Association & the National Association of Rocketry, hereby endorse this petition and request an apology from the Networks.

This is something I agree with. The image they portray continue to tarnish the hobby.
 

Sully

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Better to listen to myself talk or type than to listen to the type of drivel you just posted.

You have a nice day... remember, SAFETY THURD... seems to be the Tripoli motto...

Later! OL JR :)

PS... Okay, I'm done here... this is tiring, and it's degenerating to the point of the @$$ grabber defenders having NOTHING better to do than to antagonize anyone who disagrees, so further discussion is pointless... but consider this... if OTHER ROCKETEERS are as troubled by this sort of garbage on TV as those who've posted here, WHAT is the NON-ROCKETEER 99% of the population going to think??

Oh well, this won't matter to the @ss-clown defenders either... just so long as NOBODY gets between them and their having a good time... no matter how stupid or unsafe it is, or how bad it makes EVERYBODY look... and when something DOES happen to bring the hammer down, they'll be squalling the LOUDEST...

I expect nothing better... I've seen it all before, again and again...
Yall have a good one... and OUT!

I am far from a defender of RCR, and my comment was meant to be helpful, because there is a huge difference between that show and the LDRS shows, and combining them in a petition or whatever will be counterproductive. In other words, you will get a lot more traction around here with an anti-RCR petition than an anti-Tripoli petition.

Of course if you're a rabid anti-HPR monomaniac who can't see the difference, or who can't engage in a conversation without labeling others ideas "drivel" and calling them "ass-clowns" if they're not in 100% agreement with your various opinions, then yes, maybe you'd better sit this one out, along with the supposed antagonists you describe above.

Reasonable, intelligent people can disagree about many things, and asking questions, pointing out inconsistencies, and playing devils advocate is how we learn from each other. If you think everyone with another idea is stupid, you're missing out, and will keep others from taking your ideas seriously.
 

jadebox

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I am far from a defender of RCR, and my comment was meant to be helpful, because there is a huge difference between that show and the LDRS shows, and combining them in a petition or whatever will be counterproductive. In other words, you will get a lot more traction around here with an anti-RCR petition than an anti-Tripoli petition.

And a simplier, more directed statement is more likely to noted by the National Geographic Channel and the National Geographic Society (NGS). If you send them a message complaining about programming on another channel, they're probably going to dismiss it out of hand as something misdirected. Not only do they have no control over what the other channel shows, referencing the other channel's programming may help the National Geographic Channel justify their show.

BTW ... the NatGeo channel is not run by the NGS or by the National Geographic magazine. It might, however, help if complaints about the show are addressed to the NGS as well as to the channel. The NGS has stated that it hopes gain more control over the channel's programming in the future. So, the people running the channel may be sensitive to complaints that are also forwarded to the NGS.

-- Roger
 
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Loki Research

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Where is the emocon for a really long sigh? It's a pretty simple situation. We don't need data. I'm not going to run a public opinion poll first. It all seems very simple and very easy to grasp for me, but alas, I thought English Comp II was pretty darn hard to grasp and there were plenty of people who got A's in class. So, like my English Comp II teacher, my sister, and both parents, I will remain patient and vigil, willing to help and teach. I will try to help make sense of it for anyone who does not understand or grasp the concepts and ideas involved here.

Go grab any set of instructions for any number of different rocket motors you have, or google some if you don't have any. Go grab them now. I'll wait. :)
Do you see words like Dangerous, Hazardous, Flamable, For sale to persons 18yrs (or 21yrs) old or older, Keep out of reach of Children, First Aid Instructions, Fire Safety? Do you see where it states the intended use?

Now, go grab ANY other instructions for any of your kids toys, anything you can find on line, anything in the kitchen or garage.
How many other items, have anything similar? Did you find some DrainO, 409 or Oven Cleaner? Maybe out in the garage you found some Engine Starter Fluid, or spray paint cans,...maybe a can of brake cleaner?

My point is, there are few things in this world available to us that have such strict warnings. The items that do have strict warnings such as these have a very specific stated use. Look for it, you will find it. The manufactures of these products have put those words there for a reason. They wanted to warn people of the dangers of misuse. They wish to protect and distance themselves from those who do not do as they say. The TRA and NAR should be just as willing and able to protect themselves who do not follow their instructions. (the NAR & TRA Safety Code)

Now, forget about whether or not Discovery or NatGeo or anyone else is breaking any laws or not with what they show in their broadcasts. Forget whether or not you fly model or high power rockets. Forget everything you know about the safety code, and what you have seen or heard about at any rocket launch.

Now, go back to page one of this thread and look at the photos imaged there.
Would you want the neighbors kids doing that in your front yard, back yard or driveway?
Does it look like it was unsafe or dangerous?
Did it look safe?

Now....., now you can remember those rocket motor instructions you just read. Is it clear why they have those words of warning & danger on them? Did you get the feeling that the guy pictured on page 1 in the blue shirt, or the guy in the overalls read any of those instructions?

Now.......some definitions just to help make everything more clear and detailed.

Imagry -noun (im-age-ry) - defined as 1. the formation of mental images, figures, or likenesses of things, or of such images collectively: the dim imagery of a dream.
2. pictorial images

Perceive -verb (per-ceive) - defined as 1. to become aware of, know, or identify by means of the senses: I perceived an object looming through the mist.
2. to recognize, discern, envision, or understand: I perceive a note of sarcasm in your voice. This is a nice idea but I perceive difficulties in putting it into practice.

Safety -noun (safe-ty) - defined as 1. the state of being safe; freedom from the occurrence or risk of injury, danger, or loss.
2. the quality of averting or not causing injury, danger, or loss.

Promote - noun (pro-mote) - defined as 1. to help or encourage to exist or flourish; further: to promote world peace.
2. to advance in rank, dignity, position, etc. ( opposed to demote ).


From the imagery on page one. Did you perceive safety? Yes or No?

If you said no, how is that helping the TRA or NAR in a positive way?
If you said no, how is that helping the TRA or NAR promote safety?


mkadams001 said:
Do you really think that the coverage of LDRS is showing rocketry in a negative way?

Yes, in part, I do think the DC is showing rocketry in a negative way.
Odd-Rocks are fun, but it is a very small part of what we do as an organization and it is by no means our focus. Veiwers of the DC shows are more likely to believe the opposite since that is much of their focus. Not that Odd-Rocks are negative, but do you think after seeing a snowmobile get launched on the Discovery Channel, at a Tripoli launch, that the direction in which they are driving and encouraging our members is one that is positive?

mkadams001 said:
They show how much goes into designing some of the rockets and the worries of the builders. It seems to me that that is a positive representation of rockery.

True, but where was the consistency in this message for the snowmobile that was launched? See the definition again for Safety above. Ussually when someones rocket crashes and is destroyed, cheers are not heard.
The last I heard about that DC LDRS31 coverage, a snowmobile was driven out to the pad, prepped and then flown. To many peoples disbelieve, it was not discouraged, there was not a line drawn that said "this has gone to far", or even, "this is not a rocket." To onlookers, how many do you suppose asked themselves, "I wonder what they will do next year?" "Maybe they will fly a boat?" "I mean hey, that's just wood and fiberglass right?" "What would be wrong with that?"

What is wrong is a snow mobile is not a rocket and last I checked, the TRA & NAR promote the safe and responsible flying of ROCKETS, with AIRFRAMES not STEEL CHASSIS, and NOTHING ELSE. Definitely NOT things with sprockets & a chain, a lead acid battery, 10W40 engine oil, a whole slew of other things that will never find their way into any REAL rocket or Odd-Rock, like a cushy foam seat and some handle bars. An Odd-Rock is still a rocket, one which has been purposefully designed and built as a rocket in order to fly in a stable and safe manner. The flying Pig, the Tiki Hut, Coke Zero, those are good examples of people taking the approach to building Odd-Rocks seriously, from the ground up with the intent of safety. How is a working snow mobile anything remotely similar? I will not be surprised if or when that member is banned from the membership for this violation of the Safety Code or has his prefect revoked for violations which many others have witnessed first hand.

I think the discovery channel is showing coverage of what THEY think the PUBLIC wants to see and they are encouraging such activities so that their advertisers will get the value they paid for. It is not in our control & I believe it should be if we are to allow it. I do not think we as an organization (TRA OR NAR) would choose all of the same video clips or encourage the same behavior, or have the spectators all bunch up in a big mosh-pit crowd and cheer. In fact, we don't encourage it. When was the last time anyone saw someone at any launch (without cameras) asking people to group together, chant the 5,4,3,2,1 countdown then cheer? (But wait, we need to practice it a few time first) It simply does not happen and that is not what our rocket launches are about. Plain and simple.

I would rather see imagery on the DC that leads people to perceive that the things we are doing are not just safe, but important to education & growth in order to give good reason for doing what we are doing. The first time a non-member gets hurt and is rushed to the hospital and the story of it airs on the local news, doing it "for fun" is not going to suffice when the local mayor asks why did it happen in his/her town.

Many things in life get cut out if there are no real or perceived benefits and I think it could be quite easy for a county mayor to pass an ordinance of NO ROCKETS ALLOWED in this county. Why would they do that? So they don't have to deal with any headaches or angry parents or land owners if someone gets hurt or property is damaged. When was the last time you saw a NO SKATEBOARDING sign? Is there much difference there? What is SO BAD about skateboarding that it is BANNED in many cities and towns? It is simple. It is perceived as a dangerous activity because kids have got hurt, when in fact it can be quite safe if the appropriate safety gear is worn and done in the proper environment. Many people, including myself, have been physically hurt as a result of rocket related activities. It is not inconceivable that something similar to skateboard restrictions would happen to us and our hobby.


I hope I have illustrated my intentions and the reasons for them more clearly to some of you this morning. If I have, and you agree with the petition now, Please copy the petition, add your name to the end, and be sure that you have included all other names.

If you would like to contribute your time to this effort for the betterment of our organizations and you feel there is a better way to keep track of names and add new names, if you feel there is a better way to keep the petition in front of readers eyes, or you have a way to make it more visible, please help contribute.



Sincerely,
 

Loki Research

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One more thing to note,

If you own a business, or are responsible for managing any department in one, if you sell anything, if you work on referrals, work in advertising, if you work in sales or deal with the public in any way, one of the worst things that can happen is for the public or your customers to think, believe, or get "the impression" that you are something which you are not.

IMAGE IS EVERYTHING

Businesses pick and choose their words and imagery very carefully when designing print adds, commercials, radio ads, hand outs, brochures or anything of the like. If they have an advertising agency do it for them, it must first meet their approval before going into distribution or the public's eye.

We are not able to make these decisions when we let the Discovery Channel broadcast LDRS specials or anyone else broadcast something that reflects on us. I do not believe they ran every episode from the last 3 years past the TRA BOD to get a sign off before broadcasting them. That is why I included the Discovery channel, because as a whole, the imagery they are sending out to the viewing public is not in our control, and it should be, if we are to allow it to be taken from our launches.

Why should the TRA or NAR be any different that a business? Because we can't afford it? In that case we should not do it or allow it. In that case, each organization should have a public mission statement that defines the image that each club wants to convey, and we should stick to it, and nothing more. I found one for the NAR here.

Making our wishes known to our organizations and then to the networks is the first step.
 

Pat_B

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The biggest thing I remember is the hundreds of thousands of dollars of member's money that was spent to defend HP rocketry.

I'm only a NAR member but think they need to clamp down on some of these outrageous violations of the safety code. I otherwise couldn't care less what someone else does in rocketry so long as their activites don't affect me. But if someone is a NAR member then we are sharing the same insurance and all of the members should be concerned about the potential of having a large claim in the future. It's not going to be because someone got hid on the head with an Alpha III :cool:

Insofar as Tripoli is concerned, I'm sure their membership will probably increase every time a "redneck" show gets on TV.
 

loopy

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The biggest thing I remember is the hundreds of thousands of dollars of member's money that was spent to defend HP rocketry.

I'm only a NAR member but think they need to clamp down on some of these outrageous violations of the safety code. I otherwise couldn't care less what someone else does in rocketry so long as their activites don't affect me. But if someone is a NAR member then we are sharing the same insurance and all of the members should be concerned about the potential of having a large claim in the future. It's not going to be because someone got hid on the head with an Alpha III :cool:

Insofar as Tripoli is concerned, I'm sure their membership will probably increase every time a "redneck" show gets on TV.

I swore off this topic long ago because it was made abundantly clear to me that if my views didn't line up exactly with the rather vocal member of this form, I was a useless waste of oxygen on this planet...yea verily, this is my first venture into this thread, and I only looked at this last page of comments because I'm hopelessly bored at work.

This comment struck me a bit.

You can't violate the NAR safety code if you're not function at an NAR sanctioned event. RCR filming sites are not NAR sanctioned events, and therefore do not fall under the guidelines of the NAR safety code. Anyone injured on these sets will not file a lawsuit/insurance claim with the NAR. Same goes for TRA...these are not TRA sanctioned events either. These are Hollywood produced events that are not sanctioned by any governing body of model/high power/amateur/hobby rocketry. They are scenarios scripted out in a tv studio somewhere. They are not tied to what we do in any way shape or form.
 

loopy

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Question about the petition you all are forwarding to television studio execs - where do you state anything about going after their advertisers or otherwise doing anything that will cause them financial/political hardship? The only thing these people care about is making money. They're not after telling a truthful story or presenting anything remotely resembling reality. It's all about money. I'm pretty sure that a form letter with a dozen or so names on the end of it that are trailed by a bunch of acronyms and numbers (said acronyms and numbers will mean absolutely NOTHING to them, as they have no idea what NAR and TRA are) will get dismissed quicker than a movie pitch by Lindsey Lohan. But hey - good luck to you!
 

Loki Research

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FastCargo said:
Besides, l'd love to hear this argument on the floor of Congress...

"Wait, you want to regulate something because you saw a TV show called 'Rocket City Rednecks'...."
No, they will regulate it after one or two people tries and fails miserably to act out some stupid & dangerous idea they got from watching the Rocket City Rednecks. If you missed it before,.....skateboards, they are banned in many towns and cities, because people got hurt. One person tries to out do what he saw someone else do, and so on and so on. True it is harder to buy motors than skateboards, but given enough time, anything can happen

Loopy said:
Question about the petition you all are forwarding to television studio execs - where do you state anything about going after their advertisers or otherwise doing anything that will cause them financial/political hardship? The only thing these people care about is making money. They're not after telling a truthful story or presenting anything remotely resembling reality. It's all about money. I'm pretty sure that a form letter with a dozen or so names on the end of it that are trailed by a bunch of acronyms and numbers (said acronyms and numbers will mean absolutely NOTHING to them, as they have no idea what NAR and TRA are) will get dismissed quicker than a movie pitch by Lindsey Lohan. But hey - good luck to you!

By all means, please jump in and help. Somebody here suggested to me that talking and complaining about it wouldn't do anything. So, I took action and spent time I didn't have to write the petition. However, I'm no expert on these type of things, so if you see room for improvement, please take a crack at it. If work is slow enough that you had time to read all this (for which I feel sorry, because I use to hate those long days at work) please help with your own contributions by starting with your signature. Then help add structure and recourse to it. Maybe you can find out who the advertisers for these shows are and get us that information. I can't do this by myself and neither can anyone else.

If anyone thinks you have a helpful/useful idea, please put it to action and use. If you fly rockets and you have a positive voice, please use it.

A dozen names or several thousand, a snowball or an avalanche, they all start with just one individual. (person or snow flake) :wink:

The list below is current and up to date to the best of my knowledge.

Recent broadcasts of Rocket City Rednecks have reflected an increasingly negative image of our hobby and our approach to safety.

We hereby petition for the removal of any & all hobby model rocket & high power rocket motors from the network broadcasts of NatGeo, The Discovery Channel, any of their related affiliates, and any likenesses there of, for displaying improper use of these products in an unsafe and dangerous manner and for unsafe uses other than that on the product instructions stated use. We request the removal of these and similar episodes from future distribution, and/or public or private broadcasts and request any future use of these products be done in a safe, responsible manner.

The following members of Tripoli Rocketry Association & the National Association of Rocketry, hereby endorse this petition and request an apology from the Networks.


Name / TRA# / NAR# / Certification Level


Scott Kormeier / TRA 7764 / NAR 92711 / Level 3
Matt Fletcher / TRA 14257 / N/A / Level 0
Eric Foster / TRA 12959 / N/A / Level 3
David Walden / TRA 14201 / N/A / Level 0
Michael Ruzzi / TRA N/A / NAR 87149 LR / Level 2
Tom Hier / TRA 9826 / Level 3
Chad Rogers / NAR 89278 / Level 2
Gregg Discenza / NAR 91293 / Level 1
Lamar Martinez / NAR 77683 / Level 1
Adrian Butler / NAR 73787 / Tripoli 13524 Level 2
David Bauer / NAR 88405/ Level 1
Jarrett Dorough / NAR 92853 / Level 2
Jason Sargent / NAR 93283 / Level 1
Paul C Glassen / NAR93397 / Level 1
Christopher Short/NAR 83000/TRA 10247/ L3
Jeff Roberts/NAR 38835/Level 0
 

DAllen

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No, they will regulate it after one or two people tries and fails miserably to act out some stupid & dangerous idea they got from watching the Rocket City Rednecks. If you missed it before,.....skateboards, they are banned in many towns and cities, because people got hurt. One person tries to out do what he saw someone else do, and so on and so on. True it is harder to buy motors than skateboards, but given enough time, anything can happen



By all means, please jump in and help. Somebody here suggested to me that talking and complaining about it wouldn't do anything. So, I took action and spent time I didn't have to write the petition. However, I'm no expert on these type of things, so if you see room for improvement, please take a crack at it. If work is slow enough that you had time to read all this (for which I feel sorry, because I use to hate those long days at work) please help with your own contributions by starting with your signature. Then help add structure and recourse to it. Maybe you can find out who the advertisers for these shows are and get us that information. I can't do this by myself and neither can anyone else.

If anyone thinks you have a helpful/useful idea, please put it to action and use. If you fly rockets and you have a positive voice, please use it.

A dozen names or several thousand, a snowball or an avalanche, they all start with just one individual. (person or snow flake) :wink:

The list below is current and up to date to the best of my knowledge.

add me!

Dave Brunsting / NAR 85879 / TRA 12369 / Level 2
 

blackbrandt

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Recent broadcasts of Rocket City Rednecks have reflected an increasingly negative image of our hobby and our approach to safety.

We hereby petition for the removal of any & all hobby model rocket & high power rocket motors from the network broadcasts of NatGeo, The Discovery Channel, any of their related affiliates, and any likenesses there of, for displaying improper use of these products in an unsafe and dangerous manner and for unsafe uses other than that on the product instructions stated use. We request the removal of these and similar episodes from future distribution, and/or public or private broadcasts and request any future use of these products be done in a safe, responsible manner.

The following members of Tripoli Rocketry Association & the National Association of Rocketry, hereby endorse this petition and request an apology from the Networks.


Name / TRA# / NAR# / Certification Level


Scott Kormeier / TRA 7764 / NAR 92711 / Level 3
Matt Fletcher / TRA 14257 / N/A / Level 0
Eric Foster / TRA 12959 / N/A / Level 3
David Walden / TRA 14201 / N/A / Level 0
Michael Ruzzi / TRA N/A / NAR 87149 LR / Level 2
Tom Hier / TRA 9826 / Level 3
Chad Rogers / NAR 89278 / Level 2
Gregg Discenza / NAR 91293 / Level 1
Lamar Martinez / NAR 77683 / Level 1
Adrian Butler / NAR 73787 / Tripoli 13524 Level 2
David Bauer / NAR 88405/ Level 1
Jarrett Dorough / NAR 92853 / Level 2
Jason Sargent / NAR 93283 / Level 1
Paul C Glassen / NAR93397 / Level 1
Christopher Short/NAR 83000/TRA 10247/ L3
Jeff Roberts/NAR 38835/Level 0
Dave Brunsting / NAR 85879 / TRA 12369 / Level 2

Added you.
 

blackbrandt

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Just quickly skimming back over the show, the only person with any sense whatsoever is the dad.
"NO MORE ROCKETS IN THIS YARD"

Favorite line of the whole show was "We gotta strap a radar gun on that and see if it hit 100mph!"
Uhhh... That thing probably flew by at 200mph...

No wonder they're rednecks... :rofl:
 

Pat_B

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You can't violate the NAR safety code if you're not function at an NAR sanctioned event.

The NAR safety code comes from the NFPA which has been adopted by the majority of the states. And HP certification comes into play with HP motors. How is this show getting these motors? Someone has to be HP certified which would connect them with organized rocketry.
 

georgegassaway

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You can't violate the NAR safety code if you're not function at an NAR sanctioned event.

100% wrong. If you are an NAR member, you are supposed to follow the Safety code no matter if it is an NAR sanctioned launch or not. Same for Tripoli.

ALSO, the model rocket and HPR safety codes are state laws in most of the United States, via the NFPA codes. So even if they are not members of the NAR or TRA, the state laws are supposed to apply to them. Just the same as, say, they fly an HPR rocket, they have to have approval from the FAA....its the law...... whether NAR members, TRA members, or Rednecks doing stupid things.

The approach you describe is more like the old classic "cowboy outlaw biker (add redneck) rocketeer" attitude: anything goes as long as it is not an official launch, which is wrong.

RCR filming sites are not NAR sanctioned events, and therefore do not fall under the guidelines of the NAR safety code. Anyone injured on these sets will not file a lawsuit/insurance claim with the NAR. Same goes for TRA...these are not TRA sanctioned events either. These are Hollywood produced events that are not sanctioned by any governing body of model/high power/amateur/hobby rocketry. .
To which again I say, whether NAR/TRA members or not, or NOT NAR/TRA sanctioned, the rocket safety codes in every state applies regardless of who you are. IIRC, Alabama is an NFPA state. So they have to obey all the NFPA codes regarding rocketry, period. I cannot imagine any Fire Marshal worthy of still having his job, who would have knowingly allowed them to do exactly what they did, with K powered rocket cars down that public road, firing right into those trees. Any Fire Marshal who did (if one actually did) would have a lot to answering to do as to why they would allow such a thing.

They are scenarios scripted out in a tv studio somewhere. They are not tied to what we do in any way shape or form.

A PUBLIC ROAD is not a "TV studio" or a "set". That was a big part of where they Jumped the Shark, not only the stupidity of what they did, how many parts of the safety code they broke, what laws they broke, but that they did NOT do this in privacy away from endangering the public, or endangering property owned by others. Obviously they did not even get permission from their neighbors across the street, whose tree got hit by the pink car then flew up further into their yard. Nor, it would seem, any permission from whoever owned all the trees along that road.

Also keep in mind, that they TRIED to "crash" the SLI launch this year. Of course how much of that was true, did they really intend to do it, and how much of that is a lie like so many other lies or misleading things on the show, nobody knows.

BUT THEY DID INVOLVE THE NAR IN THAT ONE! Because the NAR is the organization that runs the range for the SLI launches. And there the RCR guys were, filming at an NAR run launch.

But as I did bring up before, if they did actually intend to fly their Gagarin-killer rocket there, well, you have to be HPR certified, so Travis (or one of those guys, but as project leader Travis should be the one) would have had to be an HPR certified NAR or TRA member if they seriously thought they were going to fly there.

And if any of them are NAR/TRA members, I now think they need to have their memberships revoked.

- George Gassaway
 
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loopy

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100% wrong. If you are an NAR member, you are supposed to follow the Safety code no matter if it is an NAR sanctioned launch or not. Same for Tripoli.
I highly doubt any of these guys are NAR or TRA members. They work for NASA - they launch bigger stuff than we do.

ALSO, the model rocket and HPR safety codes are state laws in most of the United States, via the NFPA codes. So even if they are not members of the NAR or TRA, the state laws are supposed to apply to them. Just the same as, say, they fly an HPR rocket, they have to have approval from the FAA....its the law...... whether NAR members, TRA members, or Rednecks doing stupid things.

The approach you describe is more like the old classic "cowboy outlaw biker (add redneck) rocketeer" attitude: anything goes as long as it is not an official launch, which is wrong.


To which again I say, whether NAR/TRA members or not, or NOT NAR/TRA sanctioned, the rocket safety codes in every state applies regardless of who you are. IIRC, Alabama is an NFPA state. So they have to obey all the NFPA codes regarding rocketry, period. I cannot imagine any Fire Marshal worthy of still having his job, who would have knowingly allowed them to do exactly what they did, with K powered rocket cars down that public road, firing right into those trees. Any Fire Marshal who did (if one actually did) would have a lot to answering to do as to why they would allow such a thing.

Any fire marshall worth his salt would rightly deny any of these thing to rocketeers out to launch model/high power rockets under the guidelines of NAR. This was not rocketeers out to launch model/high power rockets. This was a television production crew making a television show. NOTHING they do REMOTELY resembles ANYTHING we do other than the fact that they use the same types of motors we do, and they sometimes build something that has a vaguely rocket-like shape to it. They do not identify themselves as hobby rocket enthusiasts. They do not identify themselves as NAR member or TRA members or members of any rocketry club or as part of the hobby rocketry community in any way shape or form. I'll agree that NFPA would be an issue for them, but this constant argument over them breaking codes that belong to a organization they are not a part of is a bit tiring.



A PUBLIC ROAD is not a "TV studio" or a "set". That was a big part of where they Jumped the Shark, not only the stupidity of what they did, how many parts of the safety code they broke, what laws they broke, but that they did NOT do this in privacy away from endangering the public, or endangering property owned by others. Obviously they did not even get permission from their neighbors across the street, whose tree got hit by the pink car then flew up further into their yard. Nor, it would seem, any permission from whoever owned all the trees along that road.

Public roads and public lands become television sets all the time. how many television shows are filmed on public roads/property on a daily basis? How many movies are filmed in large cities with pyrotechnics that would not be approved for average every day citizens? Can we say for sure that the production crew did not have signed waivers from the local AHJ? No, we cannot. I would hope they did, but once again - we cannot say for sure that they did, either. That being said, I would think that if they did NOT have proper authorization for what they were doing, local law enforcement would be on them the INSTANT this show aired, and would not allow the show to be shot there anymore. The fact that they have not received a cease and desist or been arrested by local law enforcement leads me to believe that local AHJ knows what's going on, and have signed off on it.

Also keep in mind, that they TRIED to "crash" the SLI launch this year. Of course how much of that was true, did they really intend to do it, and how much of that is a lie like so many other lies or misleading things on the show, nobody knows.

BUT THEY DID INVOLVE THE NAR IN THAT ONE! Because the NAR is the organization that runs the range for the SLI launches. And there the RCR guys were, filming at an NAR run launch.

But as I did bring up before, if they did actually intend to fly their Gagarin-killer rocket there, well, you have to be HPR certified, so Travis (or one of those guys, but as project leader Travis should be the one) would have had to be an HPR certified NAR or TRA member if they seriously thought they were going to fly there.

And if any of them are NAR/TRA members, I now think they need to have their memberships revoked.

- George Gassaway

Once again - tv show...not reality. you do NOT need to be NAR or TRA certified to buy these motors. How many rocket motors are used in Hollywood productions every day? I remember talking to Ross from Magnum many years ago, and he indicated that his largest orders were for film production crews. Do you really think all those motors are going to HPR certified rocketeers, or are they more likely going to someone with a LEUP and working special effects?

I'm not saying I agree with what they are doing. I'm not saying that I'm okay with what they do. What I AM saying is that I think some people are going a little bit off the deep end with this. I have a hard time believing that ANY average Joe off the street would see what these people are doing, and automatically assume that they have ANYTHING to do with us and what we do. If you ask the average person on the street what a rocketry club flies, and I would bet 90% of them would describe something akin to an Estes Alpha. That's what they see at Hobby Lobby and Wal Mart. They don't see 75mm L class motors sitting on the shelves, and I'm sure they have no clue such things even exist. I also happen to think that's a good thing. I think the average person on the street would be VERY nervous if they knew the rocket power available to anyone with enough money and know how to buy some rocket kits, join an organization, and successfully complete a grand total of 1 test and 3 flights. Yes - we know what goes into those flights, and the learning curves involved. They DON'T. As much as it hurts to admit it, the average person on the street will give more trust to the RCR guys more than us because of the fact that they have the acronym NASA attached to their name, while we have NAR (which many will think is some offshoot of NRA...ask me how I know!!!) and TRA, which they don't know. They KNOW NASA. Not us.

I will say this for the show - it seems to be working. The fact that they can get a group of people that consistently state that they have a deep seated loathing for this show to tune in week after week...that's effective marketing...
 

Ted Cochran

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100% wrong. If you are an NAR member, you are supposed to follow the Safety code no matter if it is an NAR sanctioned launch or not. Same for Tripoli.

Also keep in mind, that they TRIED to "crash" the SLI launch this year. Of course how much of that was true, did they really intend to do it, and how much of that is a lie like so many other lies or misleading things on the show, nobody knows.

BUT THEY DID INVOLVE THE NAR IN THAT ONE! Because the NAR is the organization that runs the range for the SLI launches. And there the RCR guys were, filming at an NAR run launch.

And if any of them are NAR/TRA members, I now think they need to have their memberships revoked.

- George Gassaway

They did try to get on the SLI range, and were turned away. There was no chance, none, that they were going to be allowed to detract from the hard work of the SLI teams on that day by pulling that publicity stunt. They got some telephoto footage of the real rocket science from the edge of the field, and they worked in some footage of the polite-but-firm NASA people telling them to take a hike, and they put it their show.

Whoop dee do.

The NAR has no involvement with these people, and as far as we can determine, they have no involvement with us. There are ways to acquire motors legally without being a member of NAR or TRA, and there are also ways to legally do things that would otherwise not be legal, if one gets permission and permits. There are even ways to set up stunts to look more dangerous than they are. Is that what happened here?

I have no idea.

I do know that nothing in this show appeals to me. It is just another "reality" show designed to keep our attention even if it attracts our scorn. Instead of pageant moms, misbehavior by rich brats, and sexual innuendo among people who barely know each other, this show happens to use energetic materials. To the extent that it serves to encourage unsafe behaviors in people who don't know any better (or even in people who do), it is a liability to itself and everyone associated with it. It is an anathema.

We may, as an organization, decide to express our scorn more formally, but understand there are a lot of shows out there that demonstrate dumb things with energetic materials. Exxon doesn't respond every time some stunt crew misuses gasoline on a set, and DuPont doesn't bother calling shows to task when explosives are portrayed in less than positive terms. They stay above it, and that might be a good strategy for us, as well.

Part of our reputation as an organization is that we have a mature safety culture. We don't push the envelope beyond flying rockets safely. We don't involve members in trying to make TV productions more glamorous or scary, and we are not attracted to those that are. Mostly we ignore them. If they are particularly obnoxious, we might send a tsk tsk letter, but there can be unexpected consequences, there, too: I'm sure the participants in these sorts of TV shows would welcome any publicity they get, even if it is caused by us condemning their actions. Personally, I'd rather spend the effort paying forward.

Our bylaws permit expelling members "for conduct prejudicial to the objectives, reputation, or property of the Association, or for failure to observe and abide by the Safety Code(s) of the Association in all NAR sport rocket activities," and I won't shy away from supporting that action, if necessary.

We'll decide what to do about this program, and we'll keep an eye out for other examples, because these shows always try to out-do each other, and it's not out of the realm of possibility that the next one will be about rocket-powered backyard pumpkin chunkin or some damn thing.

Speaking as someone who once cold-emailed Homer Hickam about safety concerns over the depiction of home-brew rocketry in the movie "October Sky," I understand where you're coming from! Thank you all for your concern and opinions, expressed here and elsewhere. Keep them coming! We'll figure out what position to take as an Association, and of course you're free to take any action on your own that you feel is proper. Just be aware that sometimes it's best not to give attention to attention-seekers.

--tc
Ted Cochran
NAR President
 
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Pat_B

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Thank you for your response Ted. It's nice to know that something like this is on your radar.
 

georgegassaway

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Last night, , one of the episodes was about a homemade drone to fire missiles.

They made up a quad-copter, and added a paintball gun to it. They also added a mini-rack for launching 13mm sized rockets, horizontally, of course.

So, for the grand finale, they let "daddy" at the transmitter controls, to try to shoot Rog with the paintball gun (Rog wearing paintball protective gear). It's amazing that Daddy knew how to fly an R/C quad-copter, you know? One would wonder if an actual R/C copter expert was flying that copter. And he hit Rog dead-center in the chest. One would almost wonder if someone on the ground holding a paintball gun a few feet off camera made that shot.

And finally ,the rockets. Well , a few went unstable, or flew wildly (safety thuuur... oh never mind). But one was going straight and in the general direction to the target that was set up (a big piece of plywood painted like a vehicle, and doused with gasoline, of course).

So, the camera view showing the rocket flying generally towards the target, showed the rocket fly all the way to hit the dead-center of the target and ignite the target.

Well, this isn't Mythbusters, so of course that is not what the camera showed. This is Myth-Makers. Or Myth-Fakers.

Instead, that camera view ended just before it hit the target, always a tip-off to fakery (because obviously it either missed it or didn't ignite it). And then a totally different camera view showed the target, intact, no rocket, no flames, which suddenly had two spots on it that started to shoot out flames, which ignited the gasoline. No rockets anywhere. Clearly rigged with some pyrotechnic device from behind that burned a hole thru into the front.

These guys are shameless in their fakery and lying.

There is one good thing though. The fact NGC has been showing these during the holiday season, may mean they are "burning off" the episodes. If true then that would indicate the show won't be renewed.

- George Gassaway
 
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