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fehskens

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MetMan's posting about his V-1 suggested to me that maybe I ought to share with you all my Rhinebote project.

The Rhinebote was a German WWII artillery rocket. It had four solid propellant stages, each with six fins. It's been difficult finding accurate scale data, but I was able to get workable dimensions from the overall dimensions and from the few drawings available. The booster is BT-80 (2.6"); the 2nd and 3rd stages are BT-55 (1.325"),and the 4th stage is BT-50 (.976"). The diameters using these tubes work out to be within 5% of scale. There's a BT-50 motor mount/stuffer tube that runs up through the 1st and 2nd stages, and halfway up the 3rd stage, for rigidity. The parachute goes in the upper half of the 3rd stage, and the entire 4th stage acts as the "nose cone".

Here's an overall picture. The next few messages include some construction photos.

len.
 

fehskens

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Don't know why the picture didn't attach. Try again...
 

fehskens

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With the 6 fins on each of four stages, and the internals, there are a lot of parts. The booster has 6 prominent nozzles that add to the fun.
 

fehskens

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Here's the motor mount/stuffer tube subassembly, and the 2nd/3rd stage subassembly.
 

fehskens

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Here are the mjor subassemblies: the booster can, the motor mount and 2nd/3rd stage, and the 4th stage.

The nose cone and transition were made by BMS.
 

fehskens

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Here's the motor mount/stuffer tube and the nozzle mounting plates. The nozzles are paper transitions around a dowel, with a centering ring at the base to provide structural support. The dowels fit through the holes in the nozzle mounting plates (which double as centering rings for the motor mount/stuffer tube). The holes for the dowels or offset radially so the nozzles are canted outwards. The motor sits inside the ring of nozzles, back far enough that the exhaust doesn't incinerate them.

The launch lug is a long aluminum tube that runs down inside the booster can parallel to the 2nd/3rd stage ariframe tube. There's a shorter upper lug attached to one of the 3rd stage fins.
 

fehskens

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Finally, here's what the installed dummy nozzles look like. You can also see the installed launch lug, and how the forward centering ring for the motor mount/stuffer tube abuts the centering ring for the 2nd/3rd stage airframe. This tube within tube construction makes this long skinny model quite rigid.

The motor mount is 24mm; the model is designed for Aerotech E30 and F21 24mm motors.
 

jflis

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Len,

First welcome to the forum! Haven't seen you in a while. Hope to catch you at a CMASS launch sometime.

Love the design and layout. What is the full motor configuration and are you using timers to ignite the upper stages, or burn through of the lower stages?

Can't wait to see this painted and be sure to let me know when/where you are launching!

jim
 

hokkyokusei

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Nice. Guy called Adrian Hurt from Scotland flew a four stage Rheinbote at the IRW a few years ago. I think he got all of the stages back too!
 

maxq2244

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Len,

It is awesome! I want to see more, keep the pic's comming.
We get to see a flight video right?
 

fehskens

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This is a single stage model. The three upper stages are dummies. My "design for flight" philosophy is I like to keep them in sight, and get them back. I also don't like to take more risks than I need to, and just getting this thing rigid, stable and recoverable (fitting a recovery system for an over 1 lb. model into a BT-55) presented enough challenges.

There's a lot of lead in the 3rd/4th stage transition to move the CG far enough forward to provide stability with all those upper stage fins.

This model is also mostly a boilerplate/proof of concept. I have some ideas about further detailing, based on some photos I found on the web of an actual Rhionebote in a British museum, one of which is attached.

As I noted earlier, the model will fly on a 24 mm AT E30 or F21. I hope to fly at an upcoming CMASS launch. I don't have any video capability, but I will get stills of the flight.

Sorry if I'm too conservative for you wildmen!
 

CTimm

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Originally posted by fehskens

This model is also mostly a boilerplate/proof of concept. I have some ideas about further detailing, based on some photos I found on the web of an actual Rhionebote in a British museum, one of which is attached.
Len,

IIRC the guy who posted the Rheinebote(sp?) was a British dude named Steve Moores. I wonder if you could convince him to measure the real one for you? I've used the wooden, fold-em-up rulers to reach and measure stuff displayed well out of reach in several museums. The rafter mounted stuff does present a problem though. :)

Are you considering the Rhinetochter(sp?) next???
That'd be one heck of a cluster flight with all those fins!!!

CTimm
 

adrian

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Originally posted by hokkyokusei
Nice. Guy called Adrian Hurt from Scotland flew a four stage Rheinbote at the IRW a few years ago. I think he got all of the stages back too!
That's me! Unfortunately, I did not get the upper stage back, but it's relatively easy to replace.
3xC6-3 plus 3xC6-0 in the first stage, C6-0 in the second and third stages, C6-5 in the fourth stage.
Here's the web page I used as my main reference. The text is in German, but you should have no trouble figuring out which dimension is which!
http://www.luftarchiv.de/flugkorper/rheinbot.htm
 

Micromeister

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Originally posted by fehskens
This is a single stage model. The three upper stages are dummies. My "design for flight" philosophy is I like to keep them in sight, and get them back. I also don't like to take more risks than I need to, and just getting this thing rigid, stable and recoverable (fitting a recovery system for an over 1 lb. model into a BT-55) presented enough challenges.

Good thinking! I'm with you thou I may try clustering the booster;) but I'm surely going to do a Micro version that will be single staged:D

Great model! hope it flys as good as it looks:D
 

jflis

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Originally posted by adrian
That's me! Unfortunately, I did not get the upper stage back, but it's relatively easy to replace.
3xC6-3 plus 3xC6-0 in the first stage, C6-0 in the second and third stages, C6-5 in the fourth stage.
Here's the web page I used as my main reference. The text is in German, but you should have no trouble figuring out which dimension is which!
http://www.luftarchiv.de/flugkorper/rheinbot.htm
ah-HA

we've flushed another one out of *lurking* mode and into the light of TRF :D

Welcome adrian. It was great to see Len start posting and new posters are always most welcome. Don't be a stranger :)

jim
 

fehskens

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The drawing, dimensions and photos that Adrian posted are the same ones I used. I found them in Dieter Holsken's "V Missiles of the Third Reich".

I have a RockSim file for my model as built if anyone's interested.

Adrian - it looks like your model is the same scale as mine. Can you provide any construction details?

All the operational photos of the Rheinbote I have seen show it as dark monochromatic, so I painted mine a uniform olive drab.

len.
 

adrian

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Jim: I wasn't lurking. Someone told me that my Rheinbote had been mentioned, so I came to look. But I'll stick around. :)

Len: my model is indeed the same scale as yours. I needed BT-80 for the six motor cluster, and the other stages happened to be the right proportions for BT-55 and BT-50. Nice of Rheinmetall Borsig to use suitable diameters. :)

The wartime photos, being black and white, don't tell me what colour the rocket was. But a couple of folks had sent me photos of RAF Cosford's black and silver one, and I liked the scheme, so I used it.

Couplers are heavy paper rolled into a tube which slides easily over BT-20, held in place with cardboard centring rings. The 2nd-3rd stage coupler has four more cardboard rings, in pairs with a strip of paper glued round the outside to make two light, thick rings which centre the coupler inside the body tube of the next stage. Between the rings is a strip of Nomex, attached with a piece of Kevlar, to act as a small, flame-proof streamer. This isn't big enough to be a proper streamer, but most boosters just tumble anyway. The purpose of this streamer is to destabilise the booster, otherwise it will come in ballistic. The 3rd-4th stage coupler is similar, but includes a BT-55 - BT-50 paper cone transition. The 1st-2nd stage coupler just has two cardboard rings with a thicker strip of paper glued round, because it doesn't need to house a streamer.

That's because the 1st stage ejects half its motor mount out the back and deploys a parachute. The centring rings are cut in half. Three of the motor tubes hold C6-0's and stay in place; their half centring rings are glued into the body. The other three hold C6-3's and their centring rings aren't glued into the body, so they eject. This part is attached to the main unit by Kevlar.

2nd and 3rd stage motor tubes are held in place by balsa strips, not rings. That way, the pressure produced when the motor burns out is vented out the back without the need for vent holes which would spoil the model.
 

Guest
Great job on the Rhinebote Len and a Great job also on the documentation of this project!! WOW!!

I am wondering how many working/planing hours you have in this project??

Care to give this one a try for your next project??
 

fehskens

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>I am wondering how many working/planing hours you have in this project??

I didn't keep track, but I estimate that it was probably 2/3 planning and design, and 1/3 building. There were a few minor surprises during building that required some workarounds, and I made a few minor mistakes, but overall the build went pretty much according to plan. I'd guess I put about 30 or 40 hours total into it.

>Care to give this one a try for your next project??

Not sure what you mean?

len.
 

shockwaveriderz

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wow,len, I didn't know you ACTUALLY built model rockets! Good Job.....

Building this looks to me like its the equivalent of building at least 4 models at once.....
 

adrian

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Rheintochter R1 was indeed partly related to Rheinbote. The latter's first stage was a modified version of the former's. The Luftarchiv site has a page about Rheintochter:
http://www.luftarchiv.de/flugkorper/r1.htm
Good luck trying to make it stable! :)

I've taken a few close-up photos of my Rheinbote:

First stage, showing detaching half motor mount, internal partitions and half thrust ring:
http://www.macs.hw.ac.uk/~adrian/rheinbote/stage1.jpg
http://www.macs.hw.ac.uk/~adrian/rheinbote/stage1b.jpg

Second stage, coupler to third, by itself and with third stage partly attached to show streamer stowage:
http://www.macs.hw.ac.uk/~adrian/rheinbote/stage2.jpg
http://www.macs.hw.ac.uk/~adrian/rheinbote/stage2-3.jpg

Third stage, coupler to fourth:
http://www.macs.hw.ac.uk/~adrian/rheinbote/stage3.jpg
 

fehskens

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Shockie sez:

>wow,len, I didn't know you ACTUALLY built model rockets! Good Job.....

Take this, oh ye of little faith!
 

fehskens

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>What did you use to get the contour fins and pods?

The fins are laminated with a 1/32" plywood core for strength and to provide a tang to anchor the tip pods. The plywood core is sandwiched between two sheets of 3/16" balsa. Both the plywood cores and the balsa layers were laser cut for me by BMS.

After the outer balsa layers are glued to the plywood core, the fin is tapered from the root to the tip. The pod assemblies are made from a very short piece of body tube with nose cones fore and aft. The nose cones were also custom made for me by BMS. A slot is cut into the pod to insert the plywood core tang into. The fins are attached to the boattail, and then a lot of filler is used to make the intersections flow.
 
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