Resources for Sugar Motors

[boatgeek]

One of the students in my TARC group is planning on doing a capstone chemistry project making sugar motors. This is not under our club's purview--it's supervised and planned by the chemistry teacher. Are there reliable online resources for designing and making sugar motors that I can point them to? I'm not interested in formulas (that's research!), just for reliable references for formulas, safety, etc. I know that a lot of the YouTube stuff out there on sugar motors is like learning to drive from NASCAR videos or learning sex ed from internet porn.

Thanks!

 

[jmasterj]

https://www.nakka-rocketry.net/

 

[tim cubbedge]

Here’s another source:
https://www.jamesyawn.net/

 

[dvdsnyd]

Scott Fintel's site is great!
https://web.archive.org/web/20160323203839/https://www.thefintels.com/aer/rocketindex.htm

 

[dvdsnyd]

There's also some great resources in the research section of the forum. @AllDigital put together a nice primer on casting sugar motors.

 

[High Desert Rocketry]

After years of making thousands of pounds of 'sugar' propellant in different sizes from 10mm to 300mm diameter motors, my advice is to seek out an experienced 'sugar'' propellant maker...perhaps a Tripoli research launch event?
I've looked at lots of you tube videos on sugar motor making and been to all the named resources above for years and helped show Mike (AllDidgital) how to make sugar propellant and there is nothing better than having that experienced person by your side...that goes for any type of propellant.

 

[rharshberger]

One of the students in my TARC group is planning on doing a capstone chemistry project making sugar motors. This is not under our club's purview--it's supervised and planned by the chemistry teacher. Are there reliable online resources for designing and making sugar motors that I can point them to? I'm not interested in formulas (that's research!), just for reliable references for formulas, safety, etc. I know that a lot of the YouTube stuff out there on sugar motors is like learning to drive from NASCAR videos or learning sex ed from internet porn.

Thanks!

Put him in touch with Kyndel aka Igotnothing

 

[boatgeek]

Thanks, everyone. I'm not 100% sure if the end goal is to make a slug of propellant, or to make and fire a motor. Obviously, those are two different levels of difficulty and hazard. I continue to be depressed at the number of sites that encourage people to use PVC pipe casings.

 

[High Desert Rocketry]

Thanks, everyone. I'm not 100% sure if the end goal is to make a slug of propellant, or to make and fire a motor. Obviously, those are two different levels of difficulty and hazard. I continue to be depressed at the number of sites that encourage people to use PVC pipe casings.

I'm interested in your reasons for the PVC comment. I do mostly aluminum, composite, steel, and occasionally cardboard and have in the past, some PVC motor cases. All have their advantages and disadvantages.

 

[cwbullet]

Here’s another source:
https://www.jamesyawn.net/

That is a good one.

 

[cwbullet]

I'm interested in your reasons for the PVC comment. I do mostly aluminum, composite, steel, and occasionally cardboard and have in the past, some PVC motor cases. All have their advantages and disadvantages.

PVC is frowned upon and not permitted at any TRA launch. It is frangible. A failure will cause the case to fragment and produce dangerous shrapnel that can't be seen on X-rays. Aluminum will peel open if your motor fails but will remain in one piece.

 

[prfesser]

PVC is frowned upon and not permitted at any TRA launch. It is frangible. A failure will cause the case to fragment and produce dangerous shrapnel that can't be seen on X-rays. Aluminum will peel open if your motor fails but will remain in one piece.

Chuck, I'll bow to your experience. Always. FWIW it's true that polyvinyl chloride (just the polymer) will not absorb X-rays significantly if at all. But my understanding is that most PVC pipe has fillers such as calcium carbonate that will absorb enough to show up. Small comfort for the fool who's lying on the operating table, and for the poor MD who has to pick out the fragments.

Back in HPR-magazine days there was an article about someone at Black Rock (I think) involved in a PVC overpressurization---I don't know if it was a motor, I don't think so, but that's irrelevant. I'd be horrified having to stand there and watch the victim bleed while hoping that Life Flight could get there in time....

Those of you who choose to use PVC, I suppose that's your choice. But for the luvvagawd, please don't even give the appearance of suggesting that it's a reasonable practice. Especially on a rocketry forum where impressionable kids might take it as advice.

 

[cbrarick]

umm, TARC member, so probably under 18, making research motors.
am i missing something? We don't even allow NAR Junior L1 members to handle motors......
making EX motors?

I must be obtuse....

 

[boatgeek]

umm, TARC member, so probably under 18, making research motors.
am i missing something? We don't even allow NAR Junior L1 members to handle motors......
making EX motors?

I must be obtuse....

As noted in the OP, the student is making fuel as part of a chemistry class project supervised by their chemistry teacher. This is being done under the school's insurance and supervision. I was just looking for resources to help them be successful and reduce the chance of a surprise in the fume hood.

After further discussions with the student, there's no intention to make a motor. The experiment will end at making a slug of fuel and then testing its energy content in a calorimeter.

Those of you who choose to use PVC, I suppose that's your choice. But for the luvvagawd, please don't even give the appearance of suggesting that it's a reasonable practice. Especially on a rocketry forum where impressionable kids might take it as advice.

I hate to be That Guy, but two of the three "good" resources listed above (Nakka and Recrystallized) talk extensively about using PVC motor casings. At least the Fintels talk about PVC casings mostly as a list of drawbacks, though they go on to talk about their steel motor casings...

 

[cwbullet]

Chuck, I'll bow to your experience. Always. FWIW it's true that polyvinyl chloride (just the polymer) will not absorb X-rays significantly if at all. But my understanding is that most PVC pipe has fillers such as calcium carbonate that will absorb enough to show up. Small comfort for the fool who's lying on the operating table, and for the poor MD who has to pick out the fragments.

Back in HPR-magazine days there was an article about someone at Black Rock (I think) involved in a PVC overpressurization---I don't know if it was a motor, I don't think so, but that's irrelevant. I'd be horrified having to stand there and watch the victim bleed while hoping that Life Flight could get there in time....

Those of you who choose to use PVC, I suppose that's your choice. But for the luvvagawd, please don't even give the appearance of suggesting that it's a reasonable practice. Especially on a rocketry forum where impressionable kids might take it as advice.

So, is it allowed by TRA?

 

[dhbarr]

So, is it allowed by TRA?

10-10.2 Non-metallic cases shall not be made of brittle materials which may rupture into sharp shards, such as PVC.

 

[cwbullet]

10-10.2 Non-metallic cases shall not be made of brittle materials which may rupture into sharp shards, such as PVC.

Sorry, The question has made in gesture with a degree of sarcasm that does not come through on the forum. He danced around the answer and it might not be clear to newbies. Of course, you are correct - it is verboten.