Remember This?

[gary7]

Not sure if this goes here because this rocket only exists as a low power hobby kit. But it will be "scaled"
Oh, this is just the beginning. I don't want to completely give it away just yet.
Any ideas what it might be?

 

[gary7]

Had time to do some work today. Realize however that much, much work has been done already. A ton of planning goes into these kind of projects. And I had to craft a few things.

Upscales/downscales are never easy. You have to determine the size you want, calculate the scale then determine if necessary parts are commercially available. If so then the next step is to decide what changes are required. What kind of changes? If upscaling to something high power, a 1/8 inch LL isn't going to be enough. Has to be maybe 1/4 or a rail button. Motor selection? That is decided early. If you have an idea of the size and a ballpark figure on weight, an altitude you want to fly to, you will know if a 29mm is enough or will you want/need 38 or even bigger. There are plenty of other things to consider. Anyone who has done this sort of thing knows what I am talking about here.

If parts are not available, they have to be manufactured by you or someone you trust that will do it for you the way you want any one piece if you don't have the necessary tools to do it yourself. But again, plan, plan, plan. It all has to be known before you begin construction, exactly what you will be doing. Not easy changing things along the way. And make a list of things. Step 2 follows step 1 etc. Silly? Nope! If you think you will not forget to put an eye bolt in your coupler before you epoxy/glue the coupler into the airframe, good. But are you always sure?

Look at my avitar. You can see I've done this sort of thing before. It's fun but can be very challenging but also very rewarding!

So on with this build. Please, if you know this rocket don't mention it. Not yet anyway. Everyone will get a look at an original sooner or later. Pics and explanations to come!

And when you do things like this, you can say you really are a rocket scientist!

 

[gary7]

Had time to do some work today. Realize however that much, much work has been done already. A ton of planning goes into these kind of projects. And I had to craft a few things.

Upscales/downscales are never easy. You have to determine the size you want, calculate the scale then determine if necessary parts are commercially available. If so then the next step is to decide what changes are required. What kind of changes? If upscaling to something high power, a 1/8 inch LL isn't going to be enough. Has to be maybe 1/4 or a rail button. Motor selection? That is decided early. If you have an idea of the size and a ballpark figure on weight, an altitude you want to fly to, you will know if a 29mm is enough or will you want/need 38 or even bigger. There are plenty of other things to consider. Anyone who has done this sort of thing knows what I am talking about here.

If parts are not available, they have to be manufactured by you or someone you trust that will do it for you the way you want any one piece if you don't have the necessary tools to do it yourself. But again, plan, plan, plan. It all has to be known before you begin construction, exactly what you will be doing. Not easy changing things along the way. And make a list of things. Step 2 follows step 1 etc. Silly? Nope! If you think you will not forget to put an eye bolt in your coupler before you epoxy/glue the coupler into the airframe, good. But are you always sure?

So on with this build. Please, if you know this rocket don't mention it. Not yet anyway. Everyone will get a look at an original sooner or later. Pics and explanations to come!

And when you do things like this, you can say you really are a rocket scientist!

 

[gary7]

The first picture at the beginning of this build may have given this rocket away to many low power fliers. Even so, it may still be entertaining to watch what I do with it.

That nose cone pictured is an old Loc nose, probably 20 years old maybe? In the picture it is "whole". Hmm, what do I mean by that? I mean that I had to alter it. Look again.

You may or may not notice that it is larger than the airframe. Also note there is a larger section of airframe towards the forward end. All part of the design and all part of my plan. Realize this is not going to be an exact replica, just a so, so look alike. Hopefully.
Anyway, that nose required the end to be cut off. It is a 3in Loc nose. The airframe it will be sitting on is only a 2.14.

Since Jason et al acquired Loc, they have made a ton changes including some new very cool things. One thing they sell is a Removable Nose Weight System RNWS for adding or removing weight to a nose cone to accommodate stability. See them here. My problem, they don't have that system for 3 in noses. SO I had to create one. You can see it is a very clever idea. I just will not be using it for weight changes but permanently so that my nose cone works.

 

[gary7]

Here are some pics of what I did with the nose cone today.
Feel free to ask me.

 

[gary7]

Since I currently have three rocket builds going at the same time I will let the epoxy and Titebond cure and dry tonight. Tomorrow work on cutting fins, working the MMT and shock cord anchor, completing the nose cone and maybe something else, time pending. Will do only a few things on another and continue working to get Rocksim 10 to work on my other upscale build I am working on. That one is a very new rocket, not in kit form. At least now now.

Since many of us are not working due to covid ( I also just happen to be retired so ...) please be sure to not spend too much time on building rockets. You may have a pet, children or a very good wife who also need your attention!

 

[gary7]

Forgot two things.
This rocket has a very interesting design at the aft end. Notice how the MMT exits the aft end of the airframe. Just wait!
Also, there is an external ring there. Just wait!

Finally, although I did mention planning above, one thing I am still undecided about it shock cord security at the aft/fin can end. This rocket will have a 2.14 airframe with a 29mm MMT. How do you do it? How would you do it?

 

[Ez2cDave]

Funny . . . It doesn't look "Scale", to me .

 

[gary7]

Funny . . . It doesn't look "Scale", to me .

View attachment 414304

Your picture certainly does appear to be a scale model of the Nike Tomahawk. And it looks very impressive indeed!

Perhaps I should restate and clarify some of my earlier points:
1) this rocket only exists as a low power hobby kit
2) maybe I should have said scale-like
3) unless someone knows what rocket I am building, how would that person know if it "looks" scaled or not?

The rocket I am working on is roughly a 2x upscale of said "low power hobby kit". It will not be an exact replica, hence it is scale-like.

 

[neil_w]

I think the point was you're describing a model that doesn't really belong in the Scale subforum. Upscales are not Scale models. Maybe better off in the MPR or Scratchbuilt forums. No tragedy but it does seem to be misplaced.

Unless it is actually an upscale of a scale LPR kit, but it doesn't *sound* like it from what you've written so far.

 

[gary7]

Thank you Neil. As I said in my first post, I wasn't sure where to put it but it is scaled to another rocket whether "real" or not. I suppose if there are moderators that see this they will move it. We can't do that can we?

 

[Ez2cDave]

Thank you Neil. As I said in my first post, I wasn't sure where to put it but it is scaled to another rocket whether "real" or not. I suppose if there are moderators that see this they will move it. We can't do that can we?

Hmm . . . If you put a few hundred "rivets" and some "weld lines" on it, it can stay . . . LOL !

Dave F.

 

[Nytrunner]

The barrel on a stick look always reminds me of a blackstar voyager, but the answer can't be that obvious.

Here's as good a place for the build as any!

 

[gary7]

Not a Black Star Voyager. Not and Estes upscale.

 

[gary7]

Getting a little bit closer to lighting this thing up. I was going to show a lot more of this build but what the heck.

The rocket should be very obvious with this photo. If not, there is a little hint somewhere in this post as to just what it is or is going to be.

One set of fins down, one set to go.

The original kit has two launch lugs mounted on standoffs that are kind of long and 180° apart. Not sure why that was. Maybe I misread the directions. I am going to mount one on the secondary set of fins, the other on a standoff, both in the same radial position which I will show when I get them done. But I am also still playing with the idea of rail buttons instead of 1/4 in lugs. I sure like rail buttons but that stand off and lugs make this rocket look better I think.

Length will be about 57 inches. Main airframe 2.56 inches, larger tube and nose 3 inches. MMT 29 mm.
The hoop was a bit difficult to find and is giving me fits trying to make it more round. I still may have one custom made. The lathe I used to have, a 14 in Jet is no longer in my shop. I sold it to my son. He owes me the hoop.

Still needs LOTS of tweaking, sanding etc. Before epoxy. This is just a dry fit.

I like building mid power paper rockets with epoxy because it sets up quickly. I use 30 minute stuff so after about 30-45 minutes you can turn it to put on the next fin. And couplers are much, much easier with epoxy. Otherwise Titebond II would be adequate.

BTW, this is also quite a bit of an easier build than my previous upscales, 38, 54 and 75mm Hydras and a 38 mm 3x upscale Borealis. That Borealis was definitely the most difficult and it wrecked on it's second flight due to ejection failure about five years ago. I started to rebuild that but sidelined it just because I didn't want to continue with it. But, maybe later.

 

[kuririn]

Ah, Fliskits Tesla.
Mine is still in the build pile.

 

[gary7]

Yes.
This has sat in a box tucked away since it was released. Just now building it.

 

[gary7]

Forgot this one

 

[gary7]

Got what Jim Flis called the "secondary" fins prelim cut this am. I will use it as a stencil for the other three. They will be surface mounted with epoxy.
Earlier today I was looking at a thread on what to do/how to treat the glassine layer on tubes like the Loc tubes I prefer to build with. I choose to sand so will (attempt to) sand only where they will be mounted on the tube.

There is also a minor change from the FlisKits original in that I will locate one of the lugs on one of these secondary fins that will be modified some. That mod is only to eliminate the "spike" you see in the pic and replace that with the launch lug. I will put a small TTW tab on that one as well as a very small TTW fin tab on the forward standoff. That standoff will be located over the airframe where the chute and shock cord will be. By making the tab just long enough to go thru and inside the tube to stand off maybe a mm or so, I can cover that tab inside with epoxy with the tube lying flat. That permits the epoxy to flow into a level smooth surface so the laundry doesn't get snagged on it. The aim is to also help strengthen and secure that stand off on the airframe. It will only be about 9/16 in height so it should work very well.

The pics show the detail of these fins and how they will look in between the main fins. Of course these are all just dry fit right now. The spike I mentioned should be obvious.




Still much work to do. Too much.

 

[gary7]

Had to move the nose cone from my work area and realized I never displayed that completed part of this project.



This thing is solid and strong. I cannot imagine it will ever fail.

 

[gary7]

Full load of laundry done today.
Well, what I mean is that I test fit the shock cord, shock cord protector, chute and chute blanket in the tube today.

As you may be able to see, it barely fits. But I took my time, z-folded the cord and chute and it all slid inside rather easily. And no forcing the nose coupler into the tube either! This is a 54mm tube.

Last evening I got the forward centering ring epoxied onto the MMT. I am using a Giant Leap Hard Pointfor attachment for the shock cord.
I dry fit that in the tube before the laundry to make sure it all would fit.

 

[gary7]

The Jennifer Method.

I like rail buttons. Although lugs might look better on this rocket, I decided to go with the buttons. I usually attach them using t-nuts inside and those are usually placed before the last CR goes in unless I am putting it just above the forward ring. In this case I am working with a 54mm airframe and a 29mm MMT. Getting inside for that forward t-nut was not easy.

My wife Jennifer came up with what she calls "The Jennifer Method" of holding and setting the forward t-nut. That method uses an Estes launch rod to hold the nut to get it up into place.



In use however the rubber band can go on either side. I just poked it up inside the tube from the aft end and held it till the screw went in to hold it. I also placed some tape over it where I will drip some epoxy to hold it in place for future button changes.



Here you can see the aft t-nut dry fit before the fins get epoxied onto the MMT. That is posing a problem in and of itself. That nut is going to stand proud inside the tube. If I were to I push the ring on, it obviously would not go without cutting a big notch in the ring. I had to do something else because it has another thing in the way, the fins. All eight of them. See the earlier pics of those including the dry fits and you will see the problem.

Tomorrow will start putting those on.

 

[gary7]

Just for comparison:



The original on the right.

 

[gary7]

Rings and the "coil" also got permanently placed today.

 

[mbeels]

Very nice, what a unique rocket.

 

[gary7]

Thank you mbeels. Yes it is a unique rocket. Thanks to Jim, former owner of Flis Kits for the design.
I can only hope that it turns out "Very nice".

 

[gary7]

Really like these fin jigs.



They certainly make epoxying fins on a whole lot easier. And straighter. Actually, I should say much closer to 90° than I can see alone with my aging eyes.

I suddenly got to thinking this morning, I really do not look forward to prime and sand and fill and prime and sand and fill and . . .

 

[gary7]

Lucky fit!



The first picture shows the second fin rooted (root edge epoxied) onto the motor tube. If you look closely at the second picture, you can see the tip of the first one just touches the jig but still allows enough to position the new one.

I know, there is a crack in the airframe at the forward end of the fin slot. This will be of no consequence when it is all epoxied together.

If you look closely enough you can see some pencil lines between the two fins. That is the location of the "secondary fins" that will be surface mounted only. There is some good discussion on Wildman's web site and this forum about injecting internal fin fillets. Holes are drilled into the airframe to permit epoxy to ooze inside. That will not be an issue here. I plan to drill two holes, symmetrically placed in those secondary fin lines at each of the four positions for the injections. they will be conveniently covered by those fins when done. Of course I did not get all the fins done today, only the main.

The forward 3 inch tube and rings I applied yesterday prevent easy removal of this thing from the Mack jig. I have to take the top ends off to get it out. Not that big of a deal but every little thing we run into like that seems to be time wasted to me. I should have waited to put those on. Oh well, I will not need the jig for the smallish secondary fins.

Did I say I don't look forward to priming/sanding/filling and painting? Not my most favorite thing to do.

 

[mbeels]

Did I say I don't look forward to priming/sanding/filling and painting? Not my most favorite thing to do.

I don't envy you. This might be the trickiest priming/sanding/filling rocket I've ever seen!

 

[gary7]

Deglassing and injection hole drilling.

Just read on this forum last week about the easiest way to remove the glassine layer from Loc (or other) tubes before glue up/epoxy. Taped off the area and hit it with a dampened cloth then rubbed it off. Seconds.

Also drilled the "injection holes". Even if a bit off line they will be very easy to cover and fill with epoxy clay after placing the secondary fins. They are not structural and therefore it is not essential for them to be TTW, so surface epoxied only. The external fillets will cover any jagged edges of glassine or holes that were off line or too big.

Off to Farm and Fleet now for some syringes to do the injections. They will all be done today, it's just going to take a while. After that, will add the hoop and a small ring and she'll be ready to start the painful process of finishing.