Reload info for Newbies: The why, how, when, etc.

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bibbster

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Is there a good thread here or a site elsewhere that explains the ins and outs of reloadable motors and what all is involved in using them? My daughter and I have several D and E motor rockets and obviously there is cost savings, but that is about all we know. Any guidance is appreciated.
 
I'll throw out some tidbits. Single Use (SU) motors come preassembled. The propellant grains and O-rings are already in the liner and in the casing. The casing is disposable. The delay element is preset and the black powder (BP) charge is packed and loaded. All you do is insert the igniter and throw it away when you're done.

Reloadable motors require assembly. You buy the casing and closures one time. After that, you buy the reload kit, which contains the grains, the delay element (which is adjustable), the O-rings, and sometimes the nozzle (some manufacturers include a reusable nozzle with the hardware).

With reloadable motors, you have the up front expense of buying the hardware. But the reloads are much cheaper than SU motors, and eventually you come out ahead on cost. Unless, of course, you lose the rocket with your motor hardware in it.

Whereas most SU motors ship with a HAZMAT fee, many reload kits do not, as long as the grains are small enough and separately contained. So if you are buying motors online, you also save big on shipping. However, this is only true of smaller smaller reloads.

Reloadable motors require the additional labor of having to clean the hardware after each flight. Although there are some SU motors in HPR impulse, most HPR motors are reloads, and thus advancing in the hobby will ultimately require that you know how to build a motor.

Hope this helps.
 
I would not recommend reloads for newbies to the hobby. They are slightly more cost effective - until you lose an expensive casing... I would first invest in a few different 24mm disposable composite motors (the aerotech e15, e30 and f44) and get used to flying those. They will require a good 12v high current launcher (Those little AA powered Estes launchers won’t cut it). Aerotech also makes disposable 18mm composite D motors which you can use with an adapter in your 24mm birds if you want to keep the altitude down.

Assembly of reloads can be a little daunting at first but it’s really quite simple - albeit unforgiving of errors. There are lots of YouTube vids to guide you through it.

Your only good option for D and E class 24mm reloads will be aerotech - specifically their 24/40 casing (which are currently nearly impossible to get). This will fit most standard Estes mounts. They make a whole bunch of 24mm reloads in this size from D15 to F37. The E and F variants of these are great motors but they will send a lightweight Estes model way, way up there! In think aerotech also makes an 18mm reload (which can be adapted to a 24mm mount) but at that size, single use motors may actually be cheaper (and simpler).

Apogee rockets has a whole series of YouTube videos on motor selection, reloads etc. I’d start there.
 
I don't know of any general info threads on reloadables. Most threads were started to answer specific question and not for overall general knowledge. With that said, if you read through several of the threads on reloadable motors you will pick up quite a bit of that general knowledge.
Since you are talking about D & E rockets, I would search the Mid Power Rocketry (MPR) thread. That will have more info on smaller reloads you can use in D & E sized rockets.

For some general info, Aerotech and CTI are really the two companies that make 24mm reloads.

The Aerotech 24/40 case is the same size as the Estes D motor and will fit in a motor mount with a motor hook (file the forward end of the hook down) just like an Estes D motor, except you can load it with D, E, and F reloads. The spacer that allows a D motor to be used in an E rocket will also allow the use of the 24/40 case in an E rocket. The Aerotech 24/60 case is the same size as the Estes E motor.

CTI Pro24 cases are sized by the number of grains they hold and not base on Estes BP motor sizes. That means many of them won't fit rockets built with motor stops and hooks for Estes motors. The advantage is cheaper cases, very easy assembly, and there is a larger range of reloads available, E, F and G motors. The disadvantage is price. The CTI reloads run twice the price or more than Aerotech in the 24mm size range for comparable impulse. A Pro24 single grain E motor is $21 and an AT 3-pack of E reloads is $29.

You should check the prices for reloads and shipping costs from various vendors. I don't know if Pro24 CTI reloads require hazmat shipping, but it is possible.
 
Thank you all very much for the info! I definitely have some reading to do. While we're not ready to jump into reloads right now, I would at least like to wrap my head around all of it so that when the time comes it won't be a big hassle. Please add any further thoughts you may have. We're sponges right now. :)
 
Some more info. Aerotech casings use screw-in closures; Cesaroni use a threaded aft closure, with a pre-assembled forward closure that pokes through the top of the casing. Loki and most EX casings use snap rings. Well, most of that is true until you get to 75mm and larger, which is not your concern right now.

With CTI motors, you simply drill the delay, grease the liner, slide it in, screw on the rear closure, and you're done. AT and Loki require assembly, but it really isn't difficult. I find Loki motors assemble a little easier than AT.

A lot of Loki loads ship non-HAZMAT even up to I impulse.

If you have a NAR, TRA or CAR club near you, make a visit, walk up to people assembling motors, and ask if you can watch. Most people I have met at launches are just dying to tell someone what they're doing and why and how. It's that teacher bug that many of us have.
 
I always recommend that you have an experienced person mentor you when assembling your first Aerotech reload. I just mentored someone over the weekend as he was assembling his first H motor. The Aerotech instructions are better than they used to be, but it really helps to have someone walk you through it. Assembling the motor isn't terribly difficult, but the instructions leave out some things that are good to know.

For example, the instructions tell you to grease the O-rings and threads on the case, but they don't tell you to be careful not to get the grease on the grains or the delay. I always put the grease in the palm of my left hand and then use my right index finger to apply the grease to the threads, O-rings and liner. Then I install as many of the greased parts as I can before I thoroughly clean my hands to continue the build.

I also recommend people insert the igniter (or put it next to the case if you don't want to put it into the motor) and crimp it at the nozzle to tell you where the igniter should stop. During launch prep if the igniter doesn't go in to the crimp you have a problem.

You can pick up a lot of tips by having someone help you the first few times. Use whatever works for you.
 
I also recommend people insert the igniter (or put it next to the case if you don't want to put it into the motor) and crimp it at the nozzle to tell you where the igniter should stop. During launch prep if the igniter doesn't go in to the crimp you have a problem.
I use a Sharpie, but yes, good advice. I also use an A-clamp at the pad to elevate the rocket while I insert the igniter; makes it so much easier. Then remove the clamp and lower it to the rail stop.
 
I have a handful of 18mm, 24mm, and 29mm reload cases for D-G motors. The biggest downside to me is the time involved in building the motor and then cleaning the hardware after the fact. If the exhaust residue is not cleaned off it can corrode the metal and if the fine threads aren't cleaned well the closures can be hard to get on or off.

On the other hand it does make it more of an involved hobby if you are assembling the motor. But I don't think you can really look at as a cost savings unless you fly quite a bit, and if you lose a motor case, it sets back the cost savings.

Good luck,


Tony
 
I agree with everything said above. I’d like to add another tidbit of info.

While some people love building motors, some people don’t. In my club, we have a few high power flyers who only use disposable motors. There is nothing wrong with either way. Personal preference will definitely play a part. I personally love reloads but I also fly single use if the price is right(economax), or like my L2 certification flight where it was a maiden flight for that rocket and my first flight with electronic deployment. I didn’t want to risk losing a $150 case, and the single use motor only cost $5 more than the reload I was going to use so it was a no brainer.

One good thing about the reloads is, you’ll find there are many times more choices for motors vs the single use. And that’s part of the fun. You get to decide if you want your rocket to go slow off the pad while leaving a black smoke trail. Or jump off the pad with a blue, green or red flame! There’s white lightning and sparky motors and all sorts of other cool things that make reloads very attractive(at least for those who like variety).

Bottom line, reloads can bring variety and the satisfaction of being involved in every detail of your rockets performance including assembling the motor. But single use motors definitely have their place and value. I use and enjoy both.
 
I have never purchased a case thinking I would save money. I did it because they are shiny and cool and I am part raccoon.

Sounds like a good enough reason to me!

Yeppers. Thats me... Wildman threw a blue AT 24/40 case at MWP... So, naturally I HAD to buy it... Even though I already have three 24/40 motors.
 
OK grouch, we must be related. I thought I might be part pack rat, but raccoons are much cooler.
Us raccoons are attracted to shiny trinkets and rocket cases. You have the affliction extra bad, the gene myst run deep.
 
24mm E composite motors are a lot more fun- a good performance increase over black powder motors. But the downside is the cost. Over the long haul, as long as you don't lose the casing, reloads save some money. So the important thing to remember about reloads is to not lose the casing. 24mm black powder motors are still the best bang for the buck though.

If you want to get into reloads, you could even think about going to the 29mm 40-120 casing and build a few new rockets for it.
 
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