Recycling container Jayhawk

[SMR]

Today I opened up the hole in the back of the recycling container for the 98mm motor. I started by drilling out a 3" hole, so as to not inadvertently nick the 4" motor tube. I then filed and sanded the edges out to be flush with the motor tube. I had taped the inside of the motor tube prior to installing the core assembly into the bottle, to keep the epoxy from squishing up inside the tube as the assembly was compressed into the bottom of the bottle. So in enlarging the hole, I just had be careful to sand out the plastic bottle and excess epoxy up to the tape, and then peel the tape off, leaving a nice edge without damaging the LOC cardboard motor tube. Final two photos are of the Aero Pack motor retainer body in final position for installation.

 

[SMR]

Today I opened holes for the rail button standoffs. To ensure they lined up properly, (in line vertically, centered on and perpendicular to the internal bracket), I had predrilled guide holes in the bracket prior to installing the core assembly into the bottle. Now I only had to remove the top large ring and drill these holes out through the bottle from the inside. Unfortunately, I could not fit a drill, even with a right angle drill kit, into the rather small space between the bracket and the core tube. Necessity being the mother of invention, I was able to come up with a work-around. I cut a 3" length of metal rod from a coat hanger, held it with a pair of pliers and heated it until the tip was red-hot, and pushed it through the hole in the wooden bracket, melting a hole through the plastic bottle just as cleanly as drilling one would have done. Whew!

Once I had the guide holes in the bottle, I drilled out the holes for the standoffs with a 2 5/8" hole cutting drill bit. I made the standoffs themselves with a 2 3/4" bit. I used different drill bits because the hole for the standoffs used the "outside" dimension of the smaller bit, while the standoff itself is a scrap piece from the "inside" of the bigger bit. That way the standoff will fit snugly in the hole without exposing any interior of the rocket.

Determining the thickness of the standoff was the last hurdle. Since the large rings had to fit in the narrow part of the bottle, and the buttons go between the rings, they would have to stick out far enough to clear the top and bottom of the bottle, but not too far. I could make standoffs of varying thickness by gluing together 1/2" and 3/4" hardwood stock as follows…

0.50" = 1 x 1/2"
0.75" = 1 x 3/4"
1.00" = 2 x 1/2"
1.25" = 1 x 1/2" plus 1 x 3/4"
1.50" = 2 x 3/4"
etc…​

Laying a metal straightedge across the high points of the bottle, I determined that 1.00" standoffs would give about an eighth inch of margin. These will be glued in place after the decal has been put on.

T minus 62 days.

 

[SMR]

One of the hidden treasures of rocketry is the occasional "new experience". I had one today - simultaneously cutting my finger and injecting molten plastic into the wound. Ooftah!

In addition to doing that, I cut slots in the recycling container for the main wings today. Taped off the sides for easier marking, measured and marked the dimensions of the wings, and cut/melted the plastic bottle with an abrasive wheel on a Dremel tool. Pictured here are the cut slots, the main wing trial fit in the slot, and the winglet trial fit on top of the main wing. Starting to be identifiable.

 

[dixontj93060]

simultaneously cutting my finger and injecting molten plastic into the wound.

I have heard that molten plastic is an effective anti-coagulant

 

[SMR]

I have heard that molten plastic is an effective anti-coagulant

I think I would have preferred that... to let it bleed a little to wash the germs out. Mine just cauterized the hole - it didn't bleed at all. It sure stings, though. Will definitely be more careful next time.

 

[JLRockets]

I think I would have preferred that... to let it bleed a little to wash the germs out. Mine just cauterized the hole - it didn't bleed at all. It sure stings, though. Will definitely be more careful next time.

You should look into patenting this new wound sealing technology. You could start a side business healing injuries in your garage. If the health care trends continue, this may be all that most people's insurance will pay for. Sorry about the finger.

Before attaching the fins, you might want to make sure the rocket will make it through the doorway. Those winglets look pretty big.

You progress is admirable - and scary! We're very behind.

 

[SMR]

Before attaching the fins, you might want to make sure the rocket will make it through the doorway. Those winglets look pretty big.

Thanks, that's always good advice. The Jaycoke wings are indeed big, but still smaller than the Upscale Death Star. Getting that out of the house was a tight fit... I left a lot of little red marks in the basement - I had to repaint the hall!

 

[SMR]

Continuing with installation of the main wings... here the second wing (starboard) is being epoxied in position. The spirit level is being used as a straightedge to ensure the two wings are perfectly in line with each other. The forward big centering ring is back in position (temporarily) to keep the bottle shape, since the weight of the assembly is sitting on the front half of the bottle (and the port wing), which could distort it. When the front ring comes back off to work on the interior fillets, I'll have to support the rocket in some other way, most likely by the interior core tube (forward end) and the motor mount (aft end).

 

[SMR]

Okay, both main wings are permanently on, so I took a photo opportunity with the (temporarily) assembled bottle with the winglets propped alongside. It is bigger than I pictured it, a little awkward to move around, but manageable. I also received the vinyl wraps from Stickershock23. Thank You, Mark! I had intended to keep the final design a secret until the big group unveiling at Eat Cheese or Fly in August, but the wraps are so totally awesome it will be extremely difficult to do that.

T minus 57 days.

 

[stickershock23]

Okay, both main wings are permanently on, so I took a photo opportunity with the (temporarily) assembled bottle with the winglets propped alongside. It is bigger than I pictured it, a little awkward to move around, but manageable. I also received the vinyl wraps from Stickershock23. Thank You, Mark! I had intended to keep the final design a secret until the big group unveiling at Eat Cheese or Fly in August, but the wraps are so totally awesome it will be extremely difficult to do that.

T minus 57 days.

Looking like a Rocket Now Sather... oh and if anyone want to know what the wraps are.... I accept payment in Large bills..... lots of them LOL

(Just kiddin Sather.... I would NOT spoil it for you)

 

[SMR]

Looking like a Rocket Now Sather... oh and if anyone want to know what the wraps are.... I accept payment in Large bills..... lots of them LOL

(Just kiddin Sather.... I would NOT spoil it for you)

Well, I almost spoiled it myself. I had originally attached the mock-up and the graphic artwork in the previous post, and proudly showed it to my wife, who immediately started giving me flak about not being able to keep a secret, so I clumsily edited the post down and removed the offending pictures. Sorry, folks. I do promise that it will be shown here first, though. The spoiler was up for about 20 minutes, so some lucky souls may have stumbled upon it in the interim. Shhhhhhh... :no:

 

[JLRockets]

Okay, both main wings are permanently on, so I took a photo opportunity with the (temporarily) assembled bottle with the winglets propped alongside. It is bigger than I pictured it, a little awkward to move around, but manageable. I also received the vinyl wraps from Stickershock23. Thank You, Mark! I had intended to keep the final design a secret until the big group unveiling at Eat Cheese or Fly in August, but the wraps are so totally awesome it will be extremely difficult to do that.

T minus 57 days.

Wow! That is looking so good. Looks like you might be finished way early. Myabe you'll have some time to help the other wayward teams that are behind schedule (such as the JLRockets team). T minus 57 days - help!

 

[SMR]

Looks like you might be finished way early. Maybe you'll have some time to help the other wayward teams that are behind schedule.

You're not far behind, Judy. I think the rings are always the hardest part with odd-size tubing, especially ones this big. Your rings look great! The limiting factor for me is epoxy curing time... I do one seam and let it sit overnight, so I have 57 possible glue events remaining. (Well, 55 now.)

For those who are yet undecided about attending WOOSH's annual Eat Cheese or Fly event, remember there are four of these bottles. Here is a sneek peek at Bill's. He is planning on flying it on an AMW M1730 skid mark. This is a great rocket for that motor!

 

[chadrog]

For those who are yet undecided about attending WOOSH's annual Eat Cheese or Fly event, remember there are four of these bottles. Here is a sneek peek at Bill's. He is planning on flying it on an AMW M1730 skid mark. This is a great rocket for that motor!

That is going to be awesome! I would never have imagined a configuration like that for the can! Any idea what Marc is up to? This will surely be one for the time capsule, and the Christmas party!

 

[SMR]

Any idea what Marc is up to?

Marc is in the process of moving this summer. His new place will have a much larger workshop, but the move itself has put him somewhat behind the timeline in his bottle build. He has assured me that he will bring the bottle to ECOF, even if unfinished, for the group unveiling. I believe it will fly, even if we all have to pitch in and throw it into the air.

 

[chadrog]

Marc is in the process of moving this summer. His new place will have a much larger workshop, but the move itself has put him somewhat behind the timeline in his bottle build. He has assured me that he will bring the bottle to ECOF, even if unfinished, for the group unveiling. I believe it will fly, even if we all have to pitch in and throw it into the air.

I'll be happy to help!

 

[SMR]

I'll be happy to help!

Thanks. I figure we could all gather around a blanket (or parachute) and fling the bottle into the air.

I finished the rail button stand-offs today. They are made from 2 pieces of 1/2" thick Baltic Birch glued together to be 1" thick. They were then cut with a 2 3/4" hole cutting drill bit with a 2 5/8" inside dimension. Once the bit cooled enough to handle, the wooden plug inside was removed, cleaned off, and a 45° bevel added to the top surface. McMaster Carr once again comes to the rescue, with 4" long stainless steel #12 pan-head wood screws. They go through the 1/2" thick rail button, the 1" thick stand-off, and the 2 1/4" thick internal bracket.

 

[SMR]

I also got started on some of the twelve fillets and glass taping. With the bottle propped horizontally at 45° of roll, I can do 3 at a time... the external fillet of the high wing, the interior fillet (wing to core tube) of the same wing, and the interior fillet (wing to bottle) of the opposite wing. Each fillet has two halves, separated by the bottom big centering ring. Access to the area below the ring is made through the lightening holes, using a stick with a (throw-away) paint brush taped on the end. After these are done, rotate it 90° and do the same thing again. So in three good work days it should be ready to re-install the upper big ring which seals the interior cavity. After the avionics bay gets built.

The attached photos show... (1) the original JB Weld epoxy joint of the wing to the core tube, (2) the finished fillet with glass tape and dowel, and (3) the original slot through the recycling bottle for the wing (nice and snug). The fillets between the wing and the core tube use West Systems epoxy. The other two fillets touch the bottle, and use Proline 4500 High Temp epoxy, which appears to adhere acceptably to the plastic, but is more difficult to work with. (Hence the lack of pictures, I hesitate to take my camera into the same room while working with it.)

 

[SMR]

Okay, here are the last two photographs from today's build session. They are, in the fine NASA tradition, "false color" images to enhance details not visible to the naked eye, due to the blackness of both the bottle and the Proline epoxy. In the first photo, the interior fillet (low wing to bottle) is done, complete with glass tape and dowel along the length of the seam. The all-threads are masked off to protect them from epoxy drips. In the second photo, the remaining epoxy, thickened with phenolic micro-balloons, has been used in the exterior fillet of the high wing.

Interesting yet boring off-topic observation... we use the term "thickened" when adding filler to epoxy to increase its viscosity, when in actuality, we are diluting the epoxy which could also be called "thinning".

dilute |diˈloōt; dī-|
verb [ trans. ]
to make (something) weaker in force, content, or value by modifying it or adding other elements to it.

 

[JLRockets]

The other two fillets touch the bottle, and use Proline 4500 High Temp epoxy, which appears to adhere acceptably to the plastic, but is more difficult to work with.

Good research work finding out the exact name of that epoxy. I just call it the "black tar stuff that comes with the blackhawk kits". Are you bolting the plastic bottle anywhere, or are you relying solely on the Proline 4500 High Temp epoxy to attach both rings and fins?

 

[SMR]

Good research work finding out the exact name of that epoxy. I just call it the "black tar stuff that comes with the blackhawk kits".

I have a few choice names for it, too. But it seems to be holding well, though, so it is justifying the extra work.

Are you bolting the plastic bottle anywhere, or are you relying solely on the Proline 4500 High Temp epoxy to attach both rings and fins?

The core structure should tie together most of the mass acceleration loads of the rocket in both launch and recovery, and the plastic is substantial enough to keep the bottle from deforming at the relatively low speeds this rocket will achieve. I believe the core rocket (a winged spool) would fly just fine even without the bottle. The wings, motor tube, rings, and recovery attachments are all interconnected structurally, and the bottle is mostly just along for the ride. Despite that, I still plan on having the bottle thru-bolted to the internals in several places. The hole in the bottom of the rocket was cut just big enough to fit the motor, so the bottle is sandwiched between the thrust ring (aft centering ring of the core tube) and the Aero Pack retainer body, which is essentially serving here as a big washer for those 12 screws. Six more wide head screws are spaced around the outer perimeter of the Aero Pack to make the thrust ring serve as a doubler plate, reducing flexing of the plastic bottle surface*. In addition, screws around the perimeter of the bottle go into both big rings, especially in the area of the wing slots, as airloads would tend to open those up should the epoxy fillets fail. There is a bit of synergy here... the screws take some direct strain off of the epoxy bond, whose reliability is always in question, while the epoxy helps relieve some of the flexing of the bottle, which could cause the plastic to start cracking at the head of the screw.

* China Airlines Flight 611 broke up inflight in May 2002. An earlier repair of the aft pressurized bulkhead had been made with a single row of rivets instead of a double row as specified by Boeing. Flexing from repeated pressurization cycles caused a stress crack along the repair and subsequent failure of the bulkhead.

 

[SMR]

Any idea what Marc is up to?

Marc is still in the middle of his moving event, so progress on the fourth bottle has been on hold for a bit. He did give me permission to post his original plan for the build. This was going to be his level 3 certification rocket, but was deemed too "odd", a restriction under Tripoli. I really like his incorporation of stringers into the rings for structural reinforcement, and "mortars" for the recovery system built into the existing recycling container openings. Great job, Marc. We look forward to seeing her fly.

 

[SMR]

Between fillet sessions, while waiting for the epoxy to dry, I have started working on the secondary structures. Here is the nose cone, using the plastic bottle cap and some leftover pieces of 7.5" Polecat tubing, coupler, and bulkheads. The aft nose cone bulkhead is removable to accommodate what is expected to be a significant amount of nose weight. It will all tie together by four pieces of 1/4"-20 all-thread.

 

[SMR]

Some progress on the center section of the rocket, (show here upside down). It is a relatively short section, which will fit into the upper half of the bottle and house the drogue parachute. Wires for the ejection charges run up inside the coupler to canisters within the payload bay, to deploy the nose cone at apogee.

 

[Rocketman248]

For those who are yet undecided about attending WOOSH's annual Eat Cheese or Fly event, remember there are four of these bottles. Here is a sneek peek at Bill's. He is planning on flying it on an AMW M1730 skid mark. This is a great rocket for that motor!

Nike Coke?

 

[SMR]

Nike Coke?

That should work. The Nike is pretty versatile... Ajax, Zeus, Hercules, Terrier, Smoke, even the Nike-Nike Smoke

:smile:

 

[SMR]

The middle section tube and bottle cap / nose cone are finished, completing the inner "core rocket" of the bottle. I still need to cut rings to center and hold the middle section of the core in the upper half of the bottle, shown here on the floor next to the temporarily assembled rocket. Making slow but acceptable progress for her planned ECOF launch.

T minus 33 days.

 

[jeffgeraci]

HOW MUCH money have you sunk into this so far (ballpark)???

 

[Rocketman248]

Do you make it a habit of asking strangers how much money they've spent on things? Seems awfully rude, to me.

 

[SMR]

How much money have you sunk into this so far (ballpark)???

Well, the honest answer is I don't know. The recycling container was the biggest expense - about a hundred bucks. In the true spirit of recycling, pretty much everything else is scraps and leftovers from other projects (plywood, fiberglass, tube remnants), or reusables (parachutes, altimeters). Once you have capital tied up in reusables, unless you set them on fire, their cost doesn't really add anything to subsequent projects.

Since rocketry is a hobby, I compare it to golf. There is an initial investment in clubs (stuff) and a much smaller recurring outlay in green fees (motors). You play with your friends on weekends. You occasionally have to look for the one you lobbed into the woods. And the reward of a great shot is priceless.

:wink: