Recovery Wadding

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prudenzanolorenzo

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hi guys, I'm a newby and Iwant to know, what is the point in using the recovery wadding? is it necessary? what can I use to have the same result without buying it?
thak you very much.
 

58pan

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Most people use cellulose which can be bought cheap from Home Depot/Lowes/menards.
Cellulose which is treated with a fire retardant.
If you go to a club launch they will most likely have some to give away.
To have the same result you have to build the rocket with baffling to stop the burning black powder particles from getting to your parachute.
baffle.gif
 

RalfB

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Sheep wool works too. It is self-extinguishing. With us you get it from the shepherd.
Greetings Ralf
 

Antares JS

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It is absolutely necessary to have something non-flammable between your parachute and the powder charge that pushes it out. If you ask someone nicely at a launch, I'm sure they will give you some cellulose or tissue wadding.

You can also get this if you don't want to buy the ridiculously big package from Home Depot: http://www.erockets.biz/erockets-da...-wadding-for-model-rockets-1-5-lb-box-er9066/ It still goes much farther than a pack of Estes recovery wadding.
 

Mrgbus

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make your own wadding.
Box of baking soda
Bowl big enough to hold HALF a paper towel roll
Fill bowl with water and add baking soda until you can no longer get the baking soda to dissolve
Insert HALF of paper towel roll and let soak for a few days. After all the water is soaked up and the paper towel is dry you can begin the separation process.
You should get two pieces of wading per ply
Good luck!
 

ebruce1361

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In addition to the treated tissue paper that comes from Estes and the bales of insulation (sometimes referred to as "dog barf"), there are a few other directions you can go. I have seen leaves of fresh lettuce (mostly water so very fireproof, biodegradable) used in a high power rocket with perfect results. In addition, I have seen steel and copper kitchen scrubbers used as a baffle and even attached to the shock cord as a reusable wadding system. Going that direction, a lot of mid power and high power fliers use nomex fabric blankets that are attached to the shock cord and sit between the ejection charges and the parachute.

Right now, I'm working on a rocket that will have a plastic vitamin bottle with the top cut off that will behave like the plastic wadding in a shotgun shell: the parachute is packed into the bottle and inserted into the rocket body above the motor mounts. When the ejection charges fire, the bottle is shot out and pushes the parachute like a piston. The bottle will have nomex lining on the bottom to protect it from scorching, and the shock cord will stop the bottle a foot or so from the end of the body tube so the inertia of the payload section and nose cone will pull the parachute and the rest of the shock cord out of the bottle. (see poorly drawn diagram below)

20200310_135240.jpg
 

Mrgbus

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Ebruce
Public missiles makes a piston ejection similar to what you are doing but more refined. You may want to view their work for ideas at publicmissiles.com
 

ThreeJsDad

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make your own wadding.
Box of baking soda
Bowl big enough to hold HALF a paper towel roll
Fill bowl with water and add baking soda until you can no longer get the baking soda to dissolve
Insert HALF of paper towel roll and let soak for a few days. After all the water is soaked up and the paper towel is dry you can begin the separation process.
You should get two pieces of wading per ply
Good luck!
Years back I used toilet paper. I draped it over a coat hanger and misted it down with a spray bottle. A rule of thumb is 1tsp of BS to 1/4c water. Way back when I used a different mix that used Borax and something.
 

ebruce1361

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We may be able to sell our wadding at a profit to people for use as toilet paper if the current craziness continues. [emoji1]
(In cheesey tv infomercial voice) "Is last night's curry giving you fire-bum? Are you tired of all the highly flammable options available out there that just make the problem worse? Introducing ROCKET-RUB! The only toilet tissue guaranteed not to burn that tender area down there called the parachute. Only three easy payments of $19.69! Call now, RSO's are standing by!"

...I'll see myself out. :D
 

BABAR

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Check at your big box hardware store and ask if they have any damaged bales of insulation, they may give you a significant discount.

Also, if you buy the 24 motor Estes bulk packs, they throw in some wadding and extra starters for free.

SHEET Wadding can be reused, so in addition to being polite to whoever is letting you launch from their field, picking up SHEET wadding and reusing it is practical.
 

K'Tesh

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A few things to keep in mind about baffles, the rocket has to be long enough to accommodate one, and you don't want to move your CG too far aft, causing the rocket to become unstable. You'll also want to make sure that it's not too restrictive. It defeats the point of having a parchute if the motor blows itself out the back end of the rocket because the baffle compressed the ejection charge before the nose popped off.
 

CalebJ

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I didn't see crepe paper mentioned above, so I'll add paper party streamers to the list of easily accessible cheap substitutes.
 

ebruce1361

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I didn't see crepe paper mentioned above, so I'll add paper party streamers to the list of easily accessible cheap substitutes.
Quite true! I don't recall when the change was made, but years and years ago, birthday parties were fought with fire danger from the cake candles igniting the streamers, so after a few disasters, manufacturers began to treat the crepe paper with fire retardant. It's almost impossible to find untreated crepe paper any more, so even the cheap dollar store stuff will work.
 

Yukon@K-9 Rocket Tech

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Soaking toilet paper in water with baking soda dissolved and letting it dry worked well for me. Its fire resistant and is set of fire over a open flame just burns slowly as embers instead of holding a flame
 

rklapp

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make your own wadding.
Box of baking soda
Bowl big enough to hold HALF a paper towel roll
Fill bowl with water and add baking soda until you can no longer get the baking soda to dissolve
Insert HALF of paper towel roll and let soak for a few days. After all the water is soaked up and the paper towel is dry you can begin the separation process.
You should get two pieces of wading per ply
Good luck!
I watched a video on this. Paper towel is preferred because it's not as fragile as TP. I was able to separate the two plys. The issue is that the paper towel continues to smolder after I put a test flame to it. There's no visible flame but worried that it might cause a brush fire after ejecting. I guess I'll try the TP roll soaking in the bowl of baking soda.
 

Mrgbus

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I watched a video on this. Paper towel is preferred because it's not as fragile as TP. I was able to separate the two plys. The issue is that the paper towel continues to smolder after I put a test flame to it. There's no visible flame but worried that it might cause a brush fire after ejecting. I guess I'll try the TP roll soaking in the bowl of baking soda.
I have had no problems after dozens of launches with the wading burning. Maybe you didn’t use enough baking soda. Good luck
 

rklapp

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It doesn’t burn but instead smolders. I’m not sure if it’s enough to catch dry grass on fire. Have you tested yours on a bench?

Its weird. The Estes wadding in some rockets are hardly singed and others come out half charred; perhaps with the thinner tubes. Maybe wouldn’t be a problem with the wider tubes...
 

prfesser

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I'm too lazy to look for it right now, but NFPA (I think) has directions for a fireproofing solution; it uses borax and boric acid. I *suspect* they use both in order to make a buffer solution (chemical term, not important here) that keeps the pH at the right level so the sprayed material doesn't degrade as fast. Borax or boric acid alone should do the trick. Borax is usually much easier to find, and cheaper, than boric acid. Check in the section of laundry detergents. Make a saturated solution and either soak or spray the tp/paper towels.

Most "flameproof" wadding will in fact burn when exposed to a flame. The term means that it's self-extinguishing. Homemade wadding that continues to smolder, with visible sparks, isn't flameproofed enough.

Best -- Terry
 

rklapp

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Most "flameproof" wadding will in fact burn when exposed to a flame. The term means that it's self-extinguishing. Homemade wadding that continues to smolder, with visible sparks, isn't flameproofed enough.
I figured except I tested the Estes wadding and it didn't smolder, just blacken. I'm wondering if the smoldering is because of the thickness of the singly ply paper towel. I have the roll of TP drying on the porch so will test that when it's dry.
 

prfesser

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FWIW...toilet paper flameproof wadding if you're seriously concerned about the weight, flying time, altitude, etc. If you're sport flying, paper towels soaked in borax, or (cheapest) cellulose insulation.
 

rklapp

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Nope, the TP also smoldered. Course couldn't get the two ply to separate.

If you guys don't think it's a big deal then I won't worry about it. My son suggested buying fireproofing spray. I told him that would negate the DIY of it and might as well buy the Estes wadding.

Either way, science achieved.
 

swatkat

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Soaking toilet paper in water with baking soda dissolved and letting it dry worked well for me. Its fire resistant and is set of fire over a open flame just burns slowly as embers instead of holding a flame
You can also use party streamers. Just don't catch the garage on fire demoing them!
 

rklapp

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I wonder if Estes decided to put more fire retardant in their wadding since this video.

 

Kelly

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Borax is usually much easier to find, and cheaper, than boric acid.
Boric Acid is pretty cheap/easy also, if you need it. It's sold as ant or roach poison. Example:
 

prfesser

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Boric Acid is pretty cheap/easy also, if you need it. It's sold as ant or roach poison.
You're right, I forgot about that. I was thinking of the small bottles of boric acid sold in drugstores at an outrageous markup. For borax, this is from Kroger
1590162455691.png

Best -- Terry
 
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