Recon chutes - info requested

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Buckeye

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I purchased a 40" Recon chute from Wildman during the Black sales. I bought it sight unseen, as there is very little info out there - no webpage, no pics - just a basic weight rating from Wildman. This is my first "upgrade" chute, as my previous HPR builds just use the flat sheet that comes with the kit, or whatever extra flat chute I have laying around. So, I am looking for any advice on this thing.

Folding and packing: I found this post to be most useful: https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?37382-Sprite-6-quot-and-a-baby-O&p=456460#post456460

Inflation: The Recon chute does not open/inflate as easily/fully as a flat sheet when I pull on it or spin it around in my living room.

Any advice is appreciated. Thanks.
 

crossfire

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The recons are one of the top chutes offered for rocketry. They are very well made and I have never seen one fail to open. They are like a flat sheet chute with ears sewed to it. You will be more than happy with a recon chute.
 

markkoelsch

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They are a very solid chute. I would look into how to pack a Skyangle as that would be the same design.
 

Buckeye

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They are a very solid chute. I would look into how to pack a Skyangle as that would be the same design.
Yeah, I have, but every Skyangle tutorial shows the shroud lines wrapped around the chute as the final step! That doesn't sound right to me.
 

djs

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The only chutes I use are recon chutes (for the main on larger rockets) and top flight. None have ever failed me!
 

Buckeye

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Can you share your folding procedure?
 

crossfire

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Fold the Recon with shroud lines folded into the chute. Heck WM Tim just rolls it in a ball and stuffs it into the tube. I have never seen one not fail to open.
 

Buckeye

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Fold the Recon with shroud lines folded into the chute. Heck WM Tim just rolls it in a ball and stuffs it into the tube. I have never seen one not fail to open.
Hee Hee. Yeah, I know some guys who do the same thing.
 

CzTeacherMan

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My technique...
1) draw shroud lives together, leaving 4 gores,
2) fold top down to form triangle
3) lay shroud lines in the middle
4) fold triangle in half
5) fold and roll into a tight package
 

markkoelsch

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Yeah, I have, but every Skyangle tutorial shows the shroud lines wrapped around the chute as the final step! That doesn't sound right to me.
It works fine. The vast bulk of what I fly uses Skyangle, and I have been wrapping them like that. I have been using them since B2 Skyangle hit the market, and I have not had a single issue.

I have flown Recon, which is essentially the same design. I think you will be fine.
 

Buckeye

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I did a pretty thorough picture essay on how to pack a 24" Skyangle drogue and a 60" Recon chute on my Darkstar Extreme build thread. It starts at post #42 here:
https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?66950-Wayco%92s-Dark-Star-Extreme/page2
Nice, Wayco!

So, responses include:

1. wrap the shroud lines around the chute
2. fold the shroud lines in the chute
3. lay the shroud lines next to the chute
4. ball up the chute and shove it in the tube

Yeah, I think I will be fine.

My biggest challenge will be to make a nice, compact bundle out of this 40" Recon so it slides easily in/out of a 3" airframe. The extra "ears" are more material to deal with. I think #2 will be best for that.
 

Nytrunner

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As an L1 neophyte with L3 project experience, I like wrapping the chute with the lines.
If done carefully and neatly, it can help keep the chute slide in/out of the tube, and tends to slow down the chute unfurling (less recovery shock?). Just deploy a little higher :/
 

Wayco

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Having packed thousands of man rated chutes for student skydivers, I cringe when I see people wrap lines around a parachute. Not that it doesn't work most of the time, but the potential for line burns and line-over malfunctions is significant. I also believe that you could stuff a recon into a payload tube without any flaking or folding and it would ​probably deploy OK......
 

AlphaHybrids

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Having packed thousands of man rated chutes for student skydivers, I cringe when I see people wrap lines around a parachute. Not that it doesn't work most of the time, but the potential for line burns and line-over malfunctions is significant. I also believe that you could stuff a recon into a payload tube without any flaking or folding and it would ​probably deploy OK......
I agree 100%. Recovery is the least thought out but most important part of the flight. I've seen many malfunctions over the years from wrapping the lines. Deployment set to 1000', then it takes 1000' feet for the parachute to unwrap. Sploink. Wrapped parachute unwrapping and then going through some lines and becoming a streamer. Splat. Wrapped Parachute flailing around because the lines got tangled. Spleek.

Don't do it. Ever.

Edward
 

AlphaHybrids

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As an L1 neophyte with L3 project experience, I like wrapping the chute with the lines.
If done carefully and neatly, it can help keep the chute slide in/out of the tube, and tends to slow down the chute unfurling (less recovery shock?). Just deploy a little higher :/
If you need to make your chute fit in the airframe, use a parachute protector and wrap like a burrito. This makes sure your parachute slides well, keeps everything compact AND protects it from the ejection charge.

Edward
 

AlphaHybrids

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Nice, Wayco!

So, responses include:

1. wrap the shroud lines around the chute
2. fold the shroud lines in the chute
3. lay the shroud lines next to the chute
4. ball up the chute and shove it in the tube

Yeah, I think I will be fine.

My biggest challenge will be to make a nice, compact bundle out of this 40" Recon so it slides easily in/out of a 3" airframe. The extra "ears" are more material to deal with. I think #2 will be best for that.

I've fit an 72" toroidal parachute in 2.5" airframe, so you should easily be able to fit a 40" parachute in a 3" airframe.

Edward
 

Buckeye

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If you need to make your chute fit in the airframe, use a parachute protector and wrap like a burrito. This makes sure your parachute slides well, keeps everything compact AND protects it from the ejection charge.

Edward
Agreed. This works.
 

Nytrunner

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If you need to make your chute fit in the airframe, use a parachute protector and wrap like a burrito. This makes sure your parachute slides well, keeps everything compact AND protects it from the ejection charge.

Edward
For information sake, say you have an 84" parachute in a 4" body tube, Aren't you looking at a pretty large chute protector to encompass that thing?

@ Alpha: how did they wrap the lines? Did they have a process? Were they experienced flyers?
Looking for data here. Unfortunately my personality begs more background information when presented with a blanket "Don't do it"
 

AlphaHybrids

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For information sake, say you have an 84" parachute in a 4" body tube, Aren't you looking at a pretty large chute protector to encompass that thing?

@ Alpha: how did they wrap the lines? Did they have a process? Were they experienced flyers?
Looking for data here. Unfortunately my personality begs more background information when presented with a blanket "Don't do it"
I've seen wrapped parachute bite all levels of fliers and levels of experience. I've seen failed L1 flights and failed L3 flights where they meticulously wrapped everything and planned it out.

My philosophy is "Why take the risk?" You can very easily mitigate the risk of this happening and make your system more reliable.

The parachute protector for an 84" parachute in a 4" tube is ~15" x 15". This is relatively small compared to the rocket size and parachute.

For sizing chute protectors I take the tube nominal diameter (3", 4", 5.5", 6") and get the circumference, C= pi*D, multiply by 1.25 and then round to the nearest number. It isn't exact, but gets your close. This gets you one wrap around the parachute for protection. Length is determined by how the parachute packs, and is tested by folding the parachute.

I've been flying HPR for 15 years and I've seen electronics, motors and airframes come a long way. Recovery still is the 'blow it out or blow it up' coupled with 'stuff this in the tube and let's fly' attitude. I was part of a scale Delta II rocket team that had all 9 boosters separate with their own parachute and the main rocket had 3 main parachutes. I was in charge of the recovery and everything recovered as designed. We didn't wrap the lines around the parachutes and hope for the best.

Edward
 
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Nytrunner

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I've seen wrapped parachute bite all levels of fliers and levels of experience. I've seen failed L1 flights and failed L3 flights where they meticulously wrapped everything and planned it out.

My philosophy is "Why take the risk?" You can very easily mitigate the risk of this happening and make your system more reliable.

The parachute protector for an 84" parachute in a 4" tube is ~15" x 15". This is relatively small compared to the rocket size and parachute.

For sizing chute protectors I take the tube nominal diameter (3", 4", 5.5", 6") and get the circumference, C= pi*D, multiply by 1.25 and then round to the nearest number. It isn't exact, but gets your close. This gets you one wrap around the parachute for protection. Length is determined by how the parachute packs, and is tested by folding the parachute.

I've been flying HPR for 15 years and I've seen electronics, motors and airframes come a long way. Recovery still is the 'blow it out or blow it up' coupled with 'stuff this in the tube and let's fly' attitude. I was part of a scale Delta II rocket team that had all 9 boosters separate with their own parachute and the main rocket had 3 main parachutes. I was in charge of the recovery and everything recovered as designed. We didn't wrap the lines around the parachutes and hope for the best.

Edward
I'm down for learning. Chute protector=check. I hate dog barf.

What's your preferred shroud line management? Folded inside? Laid alongside?
 

AlphaHybrids

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I'm down for learning. Chute protector=check. I hate dog barf.

What's your preferred shroud line management? Folded inside? Laid alongside?
Laid alongside and using elastic hair ties to keep them Z-folded. That way as they deploy they come undone very nice and orderly.

As Wayco indicated - instead of upscaling Estes methods of parachute deployment let's downscale what sport fliers and the military does for cargo drops in our rockets.

Edward
 
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