Recommended wire gauge for Level 2 launch controller

[Nilo]

Hello Nilo,

I certainly am the Wilson of Wilson F/X. My cousin Dan Fox is the F/X just in case you were wondering.

As for a PBU-1w, it certainly would fill all your single rocket launch needs, but only as far as the pad end of the launch system. Its only half of a Wilson F/X launch system. You'd also need a controller. The LCU-1w and the PBU-1w together are a single-pad wireless launch system. Works out to 5000 feet. You'll need a separate 12v battery to go with each end of the system.

Any questions?

Brad

Brad:

Thanks for your response.

I went to your website and found the prices for a wired LCU-1/PBU-1 combo
for $260 and the wireless combo units for $560. I'm assuming both , the wired and the wireless, offer continuity test at the controller end. I'll probably buy your wired combo units for now.

Not only do you have excellent products, but your helpfulness and service is the best.

As a side note Pratt Hobbies responded to my email, and the instructions for their relay doesn't allow for continuity at the contoller's end, just by the relay side.

Thanks again.

Nilo

 

[Nilo]

https://www.beyondblue.shop/products/wireless-launch-system. Something like this could be modified for higher power launches.

Philip:

Thanks for your comments. From what I have learned from the various posts now I'm leaning towards buying a LCU/PBU combo wired units from Wilson F/X.

 

[Nilo]

I built a launch controller last year that is 2 piece. The battery (12v gel cell for a UPS) and electronics sit close by the launch pad. I used automotive relays that are electronically tripped. I used Cat5e to run from the battery box to the hand controller. I can check continuity at both the battery box & the hand controller. With a system like this you don't need long lengths of heavy wire. I have maybe 10' of heavy wire running from the battery box to the ignitor clips. I used this thread to build it.

https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/next-launch-controller.34774/
And I highly recommend using wire with a silicone jacket. It is much more flexible that other wire (helps with the tight wiring inside the battery/electronics box) and it stays flexible in the cold.View attachment 445624View attachment 445625View attachment 445626

Greg:

Thanks for your reply. Your design would definitely solve my needs, but I'm not that electronics savvy to tackle such construction.

Nilo

 

[Nilo]

Hello Nilo,

I certainly am the Wilson of Wilson F/X. My cousin Dan Fox is the F/X just in case you were wondering.

As for a PBU-1w, it certainly would fill all your single rocket launch needs, but only as far as the pad end of the launch system. Its only half of a Wilson F/X launch system. You'd also need a controller. The LCU-1w and the PBU-1w together are a single-pad wireless launch system. Works out to 5000 feet. You'll need a separate 12v battery to go with each end of the system.

Any questions?

Brad

Brad:

Thanks for your reply.

I went to your website and the LCU-1/PBU-1 for $260 could satisfy my needs. I'm assuming you could check continuity at the controller end ?

How can I place an order? I couldn't find an option to do it on the website, or a phone number to place an order.

You are definitely a great asset to the rocketry community. Excellent products, service, and caring for your customers and fellow rocketeers.

Nilo

 

[Nilo]

I think the least expensive way is using a relay. You don't have to build anything. 12 volt relay modules are available and this system would only require a separate battery at the pad and the wire to complete.
This module uses a low voltage input to activate the relay. You can use 22 ga alarm type wire to over 500 ft if you want.

Relay Module One Way 30A Optocoupler Isolation Relay Module High Power Relay High/Low Level Trigger YYG-2(12VDC)
Available at Amazon: $11.19View attachment 445602

How do you wire it to get continuity test at the controller?

 

[Nilo]

I have often used 13 AWG twin flex speaker cable over 200' powered by a 12V / 7Ah SLA battery with no problems. However, this represents ~1 Ohm resistance for the return length, plus ~1.5 Ohm for the igniter. You are dropping ~5V over the cable and limiting your ignition current to ~4.5A. While this is still sufficient to fire your igniter, it is very inefficient. As others have suggested, a relay based system it the logical choice for high power launches where your standoff distances are from 100' (200' for complex) and upwards.

To directly answer your questions though, 12 AWG @ 300' is ~1 Ohm return, and 14 AWG @ 300' is ~1.5 Ohm return. So, yes, 12 AWG is better, but that's still a heavy pile of cable to carry around and probably expensive. As suggested above, using 3-core extension cords is an economical idea, as you can parallel two of the conductors to halve the resistance of one of the lines to the pad.

As this is your entry to high power, the suggestion to achieve this through an established club is good advice.

Thanks for answering my question about the gauge size of the wire. The launch controller that I built is designed for up to 50', sans a relay.

 

[RocketRev]

Hello Nilo,

Contact me direct at [email protected]

Brad

 

[RocketRev]

And yes, you get a continuity report at both the pad-box as well as at the controller.

Brad

 

[sghioto]

How do you wire it to get continuity test at the controller?

If you use a super bright 5mm white LED they are visible at 300 Ft.

 

[Nilo]

View attachment 446142
If you use a super bright 5mm white LED they are visible at 300 Ft.

Thanks for your reply.

 

[sghioto]

Right now I have a system for 50' length

Just curious what brand or model is your launcher?

 

[Nilo]

This is my launch controller that I built. I tested it with a UPS battery, as well as a car battery. The car battery worked better- faster igniting.

I'm also including the schematic.

 

[sghioto]

That's a nice looking unit.
Kind of surprised you didn't want to expand it with the relay option.
Would definitely save some money.

 

[jrap330]

Yes very nice and you are going with a long run of cable...made a Spool stand....fantastic job.

 

[prfesser]

Brad:

Thanks for your reply.

I went to your website and the LCU-1/PBU-1 for $260 could satisfy my needs. I'm assuming you could check continuity at the controller end ?

How can I place an order? I couldn't find an option to do it on the website, or a phone number to place an order.

You are definitely a great asset to the rocketry community. Excellent products, service, and caring for your customers and fellow rocketeers.

Nilo

I will echo the quality of Wilson F/X products and the service provided by The Rocket Rev. The wireless system we bought last year is beautifully made and has worked flawlessly. Well, except for the ID 10T error I made the first time we set up. It helps to READ THE INSTRUCTIONS TERRY!

It is wonderful not having to unwind/wind 200+ feet of heavy multiconductor cable!

Best -- Terry

 

[Buckeye]

I think the least expensive way is using a relay. You don't have to build anything. 12 volt relay modules are available and this system would only require a separate battery at the pad and the wire to complete.
This module uses a low voltage input to activate the relay. You can use 22 ga alarm type wire to over 500 ft if you want.

Relay Module One Way 30A Optocoupler Isolation Relay Module High Power Relay High/Low Level Trigger YYG-2(12VDC)
Available at Amazon: $11.19View attachment 445602

Sorry to bring up a thread almost a year old, but this caught my eye.

This relay looks nifty. Being that it uses light, is it correct to say that this relay cannot become "welded" closed like a regular automotive relay? What constitutes "High" vs. "Low" level input?

I am thinking of using a 12V 433 MHz wireless remote control to active this Optocoupler Relay for the igniter leads. I am no electronics guy, but I think this should work? Anything else to watch out for with this device?

Thanks.

 

[Voyager1]

Sorry to bring up a thread almost a year old, but this caught my eye.

This relay looks nifty. Being that it uses light, is it correct to say that this relay cannot become "welded" closed like a regular automotive relay? What constitutes "High" vs. "Low" level input?

I am thinking of using a 12V 433 MHz wireless remote control to active this Optocoupler Relay for the igniter leads. I am no electronics guy, but I think this should work? Anything else to watch out for with this device?

Thanks.

Looks to me like a standard relay module that has an optocoupler at the input side of the PCB. Yes, as it’s probably a standard electromechanical relay, it is possible for it to ‘weld’ in its switched state. However, as it’s a 30A rated relay, it’s not likely unless you keep it switched on with a dead short for far too long.

The input side will probably switch with a voltage down to 3-5V, possibly up to 12V. Hopefully there is a data sheet available for this module.

 

[Zbench]

Looks like the Wilson F/X domain is parked. Are they no longer making launch controllers?

 

[Voyager1]

Looks like the Wilson F/X domain is parked. Are they no longer making launch controllers?

They are very much still in business! Our club recently purchased a launch system from them. Brad and Dan are a delight to deal with. Send them an email at [email protected].

See post #37, and others, too.

 

[Grog6]

I found the easiest/cheapest solution for long wires is a roll of cat5 ether net cable; I buy a rolling water hose reel as an easy way to deal with a bunch of cable.22awg wire will flow a couple of amps; it will run a relay over 1000 ft.from a 12V battery.

 

[cerving]

Now I'm leaning on building a system that could launch up to an K engine.

I live in Southern California and we have the Friends of Amateur Rocketry (FAR) launch site. They take care of the FAA clearance.

Thanks for your reply.

Can't you just use FAR's wireless system? It works very well... and they'll let you use it for the asking.

 

[RocketRev]

Yes, Wilson F/X is still very much in business. Only our website is currently out of action. AARRGGHH!

Direct contact at [email protected] work well. Ok, maybe not that well as its about to be Christmas and I tend to be a bit busy. LOL!

Brad

 

[RocketRev]

And FAR owns a Wilson F/X launch system some of it hardwired, some of it wireless.
Brad

 

[Handeman]

Sorry to bring up a thread almost a year old, but this caught my eye.

This relay looks nifty. Being that it uses light, is it correct to say that this relay cannot become "welded" closed like a regular automotive relay? What constitutes "High" vs. "Low" level input?

I am thinking of using a 12V 433 MHz wireless remote control to active this Optocoupler Relay for the igniter leads. I am no electronics guy, but I think this should work? Anything else to watch out for with this device?

Thanks.

An optocoupler relay is a solid state relay. No moving parts at all. You can get them that switch AC or DC. The high or low level input can be voltage levels, but is usually the digital signal level that triggers it. A low to high (zero to one) voltage change triggers is, or a high to low level change (one to zero) can do it. You need to make sure your circuit starts in the correct levels so it doesn't trigger on power up.

 

[sghioto]

I am thinking of using a 12V 433 MHz wireless remote control

I have a system that does just that, uses a wireless link to a heavy duty 40 amp car relay.
Do you have a link to this 433mhz controller?

 

[Buckeye]

I have a system that does just that, uses a wireless link to a heavy duty 40 amp car relay.
Do you have a link to this 433mhz controller?

There are hundreds of them on eBay and Amazon that all kinda look the same. I have one of these on the way. It has orders of magnitude more reviews than others, so hopefully that is a good sign:

eMylo DC 12V 6X 1 Channel Wireless Relay RF Relay Wireless Remote Control Switch 433Mhz Transmitter with Receiver - - Amazon.com

I went with the 6 separate channel relays to hopefully program each transmitter button to perform differently - some buttons momentary, some buttons toggle. There are other multi-channel relays that come on one board, but all the transmitter buttons have to be "learned" the same way - all momentary, all toggle, or all jog. I think. As with all cheap crap from China, the documentation sucks.

There are more pricey units that offer more range, but I will be happy if the above gets one half of the advertised 150m in a line-of-site application like a launch controller.

 

[sghioto]

I have a similar system at 315mhz. It has four relays on a PC board and each performs a different function. I added additional circuitry for status indictors and delays.
"A" button was for arming the system but must hold the button for 3 seconds.
"B" button was the press to the launch.
"C" button was a communications check.
"D" button was to disarm the system.