Rebuttal to R/C Rocket glider article in latest 2020 Sport Rocketry

[burkefj]

I read through this article and thouight I was back in 1980....I sent a rebuttal to Tom Beach for publishing in sport rocketry with the current available R/C rocket glider kits available on the market, you might find this interesting as well. Not a plug, just letting people know there is a lot out there now, more than ever before.

Tom, I just read the article in sport rocketry about beginer r/c rocket gliders. Unfortunately it gives the impression there aren't any RC rocket glider kits out there, and also gives the impression that you need to scratch build from plans or convert a kit. North coast rocketry, JH aerospace, and Dynasoar rocketry all make excellent easy to build kits that would serve people wanting to try their hand at RC rocket gliders, and have for several years. In fact this i one of the best times to try R/C rocket gliders if you have been considering it.

Currently available kits:

North Coast North Hawk, 18mm micro R/C boost glider(soon to be discontinued)

Dynasoar Rocketry: All sport flyers for 24mm E-6 longburn motors, cardboard tube and foam wing/tail surfaces, for std receiver and 2 9 gram servos, painting not required, very easy assembly)

Space Transporter America(classic upscale) 38” long, 2.6” diameter 23” wingspan

Avro Arrow (Semi Scale kit), 34” long, 23.5” wingspan, 2” diameter

Draken(Retri sci-fi) 32” long, 23” wingspan 2.6” diameter

Aurora Clipper (sci-fi) 36” long, 23” wingspan, 2” diameter

X-15 Delta Configuration (proposed modification to X-15) 36” length, 20” wingspan, 2.6” diameter

Iron Cross(ww1 styled rocket plane) 34” length, 23” wingspan, 2.6” diameter

YF-12 (semi-scale SR-71 interceptor) 41” length, 20” wingspan, 1.6” diameter

Orbital Pegasus XL (semi-scale). 38” length, 23” wingspan, 2.6” diameter



JH Aerospace: primarily wood built up models, some using unique mechanisms for wing deployment. 13mm, 18mm, and 24mm models:

Carbonette 12: 12" span micro RC boost glider for 1/2A-A BG, uses 2.4 GHz receiver bricks.

Carbonette 19: 19" span micro RC boost glider/discus glider for B-C BG, uses 2.4 GHz receiver bricks.

Swingshot: 25" span micro RC swing wing rocket glider for B-C RG, uses 2.4 GHz receiver bricks

Firefeather: 30" span mini RC sailplane for electric soaring, discus launch glider, or C-D RG, uses 18mm motors (AT 18 C2.3 and D3 reloads preferred).

Evo Fire: 1.5m span F3K sailplane with 24mm motor mount. Flies best on Quest D5 motors. This is a proper soaring machine that requires good radio programming and rewards careful pilots with the best soaring capabilities of any current production rocket glider available in the US. It is NOT a beginner's airplane because the build is complex and the speed envelope is extremely wide.

Previous available kits that may still be found NIB that were designed as R/C rocket gliders:

Phoenix by Aerotech(uses 32mm reloadable casing, discontinuted casing, can be adapted for 29mm motors. High performance for experienced pilots.

Estes Sweet V for 24mm motors Pod and boom V tailed sailplane design.

Estes Astro Blaster for 24mm motors, originally poor performance with available components, should be better with newer long burn motors and micro components.

Estes Strato Blaster for 24mm motors. Twin boom design can be a bit fragile on hard landings.

Hobbylab SR-71 for 24mm E-15P and E-20-P motors.(high speed boost, fragile foam neck, mechanically mised tray slider with old servos and batteries, free flight can be converted with newer components.

Cuda: built up 24mm high performance model.

Edmonds Arcie: roll control only simple model to boost and fly.

R&R Models Delta Star(there may be a few versions of this) based on the RC modeler Lady Hawk plans. Higher boost speeds, wood built up delta winged model.

 

[tim cubbedge]

Has there been any response?

 

[burkefj]

Tom said he would publish this, yes. Perhaps in the next issue if he can fit it in.

Has there been any response?

 

[aerostadt]

Yes, I read the article, too, and got the same impression that the R/C model rocket field was limited.

 

[mikec]

Clearly Larry Brand could have done more research before writing this article, at least citing Frank Burke's SR article from a few years back about the Dynasoar product line.

It's not like SR is a peer-reviewed publication.

 

[Ez2cDave]

The only place where RC RG / BG commercial kits are lacking is in the area of higher performance models, designed for maximum performance.

Dave F.

 

[burkefj]

I think this mentioned below is getting pretty good performance, but not sure how it fits into what you are looking for.

https://jhaerospace.com/product/evofire/

The only place where RC RG / BG commercial kits are lacking is in the area of higher performance models, designed for maximum performance.

Dave F.

 

[Ez2cDave]

I read through this article and thought I was back in 1980....

Agreed . . . I am not an RC expert, by any means, but it looks to me like those "RCRG's" would be like "Dead-Sticking" a Prop-Driven RC plane once it transitions from Apogee.

I saw the cover and thought "COOL" . . . Then, I read the article and was very disappointed.

Dave F.

 

[mikec]

I looked at the Evo Fire but it seems pretty challenging both to build and to fly. I'm currently working on converting an Art-Hobby Zuni HLG for rocket power. I built an old Vectoraero Cuda kit and it performed OK until I totaled it in a crash (complete loss of control during boost, cause somewhat mysterious.)

 

[burkefj]

Duplicate post deleted

 

[burkefj]

Yup

I saw the cover and thought "COOL" . . . Then, I read the article and was very disappointed.

Dave F.[/QUOTE]

 

[burkefj]

If you are looking at long glide times, yes converting a DLG is a good way to go, they are very strong, very efficient, you just need to work out your thrust lines and boost/glide settings. I've said it before, I'm not in it for performance, I can fling a dlg for free, I like seeing something that looks like a rocketship going up on a trail of fire that I can pilot and land at my feet....but everyone has their own thing.

I looked at the Evo Fire but it seems pretty challenging both to build and to fly. I'm currently working on converting an Art-Hobby Zuni HLG for rocket power. I built an old Vectoraero Cuda kit and it performed OK until I totaled it in a crash (complete loss of control during boost, cause somewhat mysterious.)

 

[Greg Furtman]

I found Dynasoar online. You'd think that Sport Rocketry would try to be more accurate in their stories.

 

[Ez2cDave]

Not at all, my dynasoar kits have very light wing loadings, they don't glide a long time, but are very docile and flare to almost a dead stop on landing and have pretty slow glide speeds, JH's kits are more "aerodynamic" and are like flying many typical wood gliders...if not better.

You can watch this video and see if it seems like dead sticking a prop driven rc plane...

I was referring to the ones in the Sport Rocketry magazine article, not Dynasoar kits.

Dave F.

 

[Crawf56]

Additional rocket gliders:

J&H Aerospace - Redshift II (D motor)

Squirrel Works - Mega Baron (D) that can be converted to RC.

 

[BBowmaster]

Thanks for posting. My impression after reading the article was that rocket-boosted RC gliders were a “pro” thing and not for beginners.

 

[burkefj]

My opinion, shared by others, is that you should not learn how to fly rc with a rocket glider. Flight times can be short so learning curve is high. There are many inexpensive electric rtf models out there to learn on. Once you are somewhat proficient at flying, then beginning to fly rocket gliders using any of the above kits makes it very simple to transition.

That said, boost gliders or rocket gliders with swing/slide/folded wings that boost in a highly stable configuration are essentially "watched" on boost and not steered and then the controlled part is just the glide which is fairly low speed.

Pure rocket gliders are controlled on the way up and down, so depending on the motor chosen can be a handfull on boost or fairly benign, I like the E-6 longburn motor for this reason and design around that motor. I prefer fixed wing rocket gliders because they are simple, and I don't like having to chase extra parts between flights.

Thanks for posting. My impression after reading the article was that rocket-boosted RC gliders were a “pro” thing and not for beginners.

 

[Ez2cDave]

Thanks for posting. My impression after reading the article was that rocket-boosted RC gliders were a “pro” thing and not for beginners.

RC Rocket Glider & RC Boost Gliders come in all "Levels, from Beginner to "Pro" . . .

This is PRO RCRG . . .

This is BEGINNER . . .

 

[burkefj]

I had the Redshift II listed but then Joshua sent me a back a list of what he considered his RC rocket glider kits and it was not on his list. I was trying to list things that were ready to go without conversion required, but you are right the big baron is good for conversion as are a few foamy pusher kits, but again I was trying to focus this on what is designed specifically ready to go. The choices are pretty good right now, much better than ever before.

I've added the older kits that may still be found to the initial posting in the thread.

Additional rocket gliders:

J&H Aerospace - Redshift II (D motor)

 

[Crawf56]

I am very grateful to Dynasoar and J&H for providing these model kits.

Almost as much fun as working with a plasma drag accelerator (a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away).

 

[Doug Holverson]

Any updates on this thread and a half years later?

 

[burkefj]

Any updates on this thread and a half years later?

It was published as I was just made aware.

The current state of kits is as below afaik: This is specifically regarding as designed R/C rocket glider/boost gliders, not things that might or might not be converted or convertable as that wasn't the gist of the original article.

Note: North coast not making their micro rc/rg and I've cut back a bit too to what is most popular.

Currently available as designed R/C rocket glider/boost glider kits:

Dynasoar Rocketry: All sport flyers for 24mm E-6 longburn motors, cardboard tube and foam wing/tail surfaces, for std receiver and 2 9 gram servos, painting not required, very easy assembly)

Dragonship(Retro sci-fi) 32” long, 23” wingspan 2.6” diameter 9 oz rtf. for 24mm E-6 motors.

Aurora Clipper 30” long, 23” wingspan, 1.6” diameter for 24mm E-6 motors, under 8.5 oz rtf.

X-15 1/21 scale for 24mm E-6 motors only, 29" long, 14" wingspan 2.6" diameter. under 8.5 oz rtf.

JH Aerospace: primarily wood built up models, some using unique mechanisms for wing deployment. 13mm, 18mm, and 24mm models:

Carbonette 12: 12" span micro RC boost glider for 13mm 1/2A-A BG, uses 2.4 GHz receiver bricks.

Carbonette 19: 19" span micro RC boost glider for 18mm B-C BG, uses 2.4 GHz receiver bricks.

Cirrus Dart: RC RG

Red Shift: RC RG

Swingshot: 25" span micro RC swing wing rocket glider for 18 mm B-C RG, uses 2.4 GHz receiver bricks

Firefeather: 30" span mini RC uses 18mm motors (AT 18 C3.4 and D2.3 reloads preferred).

Evo Fire: 1.5m span F3K sailplane with 24mm motor mount.

 

[tab28682]

SR really should have published your rebuttal letter, in the interest of accurate assessment of this part of the hobby.

That article is approaching 4 years old now. Any chance you could do a new article to help get the word out?

 

[Rob Campbell]

Another two are the Estes Gryphon and the Semroc Hawk, which is the old Estes Falcon with a streamer recovered 13mm motor mount assembly needed to comply with the current safety code.

 

[mikec]

I don't think the rebuttal was ever published

Sorry to correct you, but it was published in the March/April 2020 issue:

 

[burkefj]

Sorry to correct you, but it was published in the March/April 2020 issue:

I must have missed that, thanks for posting. if you are a NAR member you can login and see it:

https://www.nar.org/members/magazine-archives/sport-rocketry-magazine/
March/April 2020 issue in the archive.

 

[burkefj]

Another two are the Estes Gryphon and the Semroc Hawk, which is the old Estes Falcon with a streamer recovered 13mm motor mount assembly needed to comply with the current safety code.

These are not R/C rocket or R/C boost gliders, and I'm not including things that might or might not be converted, this article was specifically for R/C models designed to be just that from the outset....

 

[TheTank]

If you are looking at long glide times, yes converting a DLG is a good way to go, they are very strong, very efficient, you just need to work out your thrust lines and boost/glide settings. I've said it before, I'm not in it for performance, I can fling a dlg for free, I like seeing something that looks like a rocketship going up on a trail of fire that I can pilot and land at my feet....but everyone has their own thing.

I never thought about converting a DLG. Might have to try that.

 

[burkefj]

I never thought about converting a DLG. Might have to try that.

 

[Crawf56]

Another source of RC rocket glider 'kits' are existing balsa delta wing models. Though, I must admit that some conversions work better than others.

For example, Brodak Manufacturing has a model of the Canadian Arrow delta wing jet: https://brodak.com/electric-kits/spirit-of-yesteryear/soy-arrow.html

Old School Model Works has the Comet: https://www.oldschoolmodels.com/comet.htm