I dont check the forum often, but came across this thread.
Bob Krech wrote:
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The AMA rules for R/C aircraft operations are posted at
https://www.modelaircraft.org/PDF-files/105.pdf
The section concerning rockets states
"I will not operate model aircraft carrying pyrotechnic devices which explode, burn, or propel a projectile of any kind. Exceptions include Free Flight fuses or devices that burn producing smoke and are securely attached to the model aircraft during flight. Rocket motors up to a G-series size may be used, provided they remain firmly attached to the model aircraft during flight. Model rockets may be flown in accordance with the National Model Rocketry Safety Code; however, they may not be launched from model aircraft. Officially designated AMA Air Show Teams (AST) are authorized to use devices and practices as defined within the Air Show Advisory Committee Document."
That's a pretty clear statement that it is not allowed by AMA rules.
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The purpose of that rule is to prevent the launching of rockets as projectiles, not rocket powered model aircraft. That rule was brought about years ago (late 70s , early 1980s) thanks to some yahoos putting model rocket powered MISSILES on the wings of model planes to try to hit ground targets.
There have actually been more than one model pairs of B-50 (or historically inaccurate B-29) bombers that have dropped X-1s that then ignited rocket engines in them. Flown under AMA rules as the X-1 was considered as a second R/C model aircraft that happened to be rocket powered, not as a model rocket or as a projectile.
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The NAR rule on Radio-Controlled (R/C) Rocket Boosted Glider (RBG) is located at
https://nar.org/NARrcrbgsc.html
"A Radio-Controlled (R/C) Rocket Boosted Glider (RBG) is defined as a rocket boosted model capable of gliding flight and equipped with a radio control system capable of controlling the direction of flight during glide and, optionally, boost."
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You forgot to go down to the air-start rules (#6) of the R/C RBG code. It starts by saying:
Air-starts. During stable, gliding flight of the R/C RBG, an attached motor may be air-started to increase the model's altitude or airspeed without diving. This is permitted if: . . . . followed by some limitations.
The air-start rule was put there for models like John Kallends Ladyhawk, which would air-start a second motor during glide (from horizontal glide. Not an insane dive to pick up speed then pull vertical and pray the motor ignited before the model stalled out and pointed down at the ground). And it was also put there for the future inevitable models that would do X-plane and Space Ship One type air-starts of piggybacked R/C gliders. At NARAM next summer, I plan to do some flights of my Orbital SkyDart project where itll be in horizontal glide mode when the SkyDart ignites rather than stage in near-vertical flight (I was going to do a horizontal air-start on the last flight attempt at NARAM this year, but the two G12s in the Sky Booster catoed at liftoff).
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From the Pink Book
https://nar.org/pdf/pinkbook.pdf
A Boost Glider is defined as "any model rocket, one portion of which returns to the ground in stable, gliding flight supported by aerodynamic lifting surfaces which sustain that portion against gravity. If the entry is staged, the gliding portion must be part of the uppermost stage, and must not be deployed until that stage has burned out."
It's pretty clear from that last statement that it is not allowed under NAR rules either.
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Its pretty clear that those are PInk Book rules for CONTESTS, which have absolutely zero relevance outside of an official NAR contest event. And the rule you quoted (from 36.1 and cloned in 38.1) related only to boost gliders in the actual boost glide (rule 36) and flex-wing boost glide (rule 38) events. Not other events where one might use a "boost glider" for whatever reason (like say, scale), long as those other events did not prevent glide recovery.
Nobody should ever try to use the Pink Book contest rules as justification to limit/prevent anything that involves Sport flying.
Let me repeat that, as this is definitely not the first time someone has mistakenly thought of the Pink Book as a thicker version of the Safety Code when it comes to Sport flying:
Nobody should ever try to use the Pink Book contest rules as justification to limit/prevent anything that involves Sport flying.
This is also why the R/C code is not called the Rocket Glider Code, or the Boost Glider Code. In the sport flying world, nobody cares what the Pink Book technically defines as a B/G or R/G. So Rocket Boosted Glider (RBG) covers all the bases, regardless of what a person might choose to call an R/C Glider model, and regardless of whether parts do (safely) or do not come off in flight.
Now if one wanted to sport fly a White Knight and Space Ship One, they could do it as a model airplane by using model airplane engine driven ducted fans (or props) in the White Knight. Ought to be OK at most model airplane sites, other than some who might get all excited over a fire starting in case of a crash (maybe at some California sites and some states during burn bans).
Could that be flown at a rocket launch? Well, if the field was OK for model airplane flights, it should (assuming some safe area to take off and land on). If model planes were not allowed at a rocket launch, then the White Knight would have to be rocket boosted, and launched within 45 degrees of vertical (really a PITA to do that though, given the resulting thrustlines and cluster risks).
Unfortunately Pink Book wise even with the White Knight being rocket boosted would not be OK for scale. Nothing to do with air-starting, or glider, or R/C, but rule 5.5 about the launcher not providing additional velocity not provided by the models own engine*, since in this case the launcher would not be the pad on the ground but the flying White Knight model itself (now if the real White Knight was rocket powered, that would make it the first stage of a 2-stage vehicle, so then it would avoid that launcher rule. That would also then mean the White Knight would be judged as part of the whole flying scale entry. As just a launcher the White Knight would not be static judged, though it would count for something among the Mission Points as would the air-start itself.).
- George Gassaway
* - 5.5 Momentum
A launcher must not impart to the model any velocity or change of momentum except that caused by the model rocket motor(s) contained in the model.
