Rats! $37 Hazmat Fee on E12-6’s and E12-8’s

[gtg738w]

Here's a case study that's still somewhat related:

Box of motors shipped USPS Parcel Select from CT

To Myself - $7.59
To California - $10.79
To Hawaii - $11.54

The only sound logic I've heard to justify higher prices to HI is some vendors won't use First Class or Parcel Select because it takes so long. If you change the service or use another carrier to get back to "normal" delivery times, yes, it is quite a bit more expensive but not really apples to apples anymore. Also don't have a choice with motors in the box.

 

[tsmith1315]

Once you have it, you never forget it.

a bit of an identity...

 

[kuririn]

Here's a case study that's still somewhat related:

Box of motors shipped USPS Parcel Select from CT

To Myself - $7.59
To California - $10.79
To Hawaii - $11.54

The only sound logic I've heard to justify higher prices to HI is some vendors won't use First Class or Parcel Select because it takes so long. If you change the service or use another carrier to get back to "normal" delivery times, yes, it is quite a bit more expensive but not really apples to apples anymore. Also don't have a choice with motors in the box.

There is almost no difference in the USPS shipping rates to Hawaii between Parcel Select and Priority Mail. Maybe a few cents.
Delivery times for Parcel Select is 2-3 weeks. For Priority Mail it's 2-3 business days.
Almost the same cost, huge difference in delivery time.
Of course, motors are required to go by Parcel Select. That means slow boat to China Hawaii.
Not allowed on aircraft.

 

[smstachwick]

Not allowed on aircraft.

That’s silly. What do they think powers air-to-air missiles? Hugs and rainbows?

 

[brockrwood]

Hogwarsh

I am in Colorado, the birth state of model rocketry. I am not going to dis my “homie” Estes. And Apogee.

 

[brockrwood]

Hogwarsh

The irony of Bill Stine, son of G. Harry Stine, and former head of Estes’ main competitor, now in charge of Estes is not lost on me. It just goes to show: Being a rocketeer means you are part of a guild, a special group of like-minded people. I am glad to see Bill Stine at Estes. It means that any ruffled feathers from the past have long since been plucked.

 

[smstachwick]

The irony of Bill Stine, son of G. Harry Stine, and former head of Estes’ main competitor, now in charge of Estes is not lost on me. It just goes to show: Being a rocketeer means you are part of a guild, a special group of like-minded people. I am glad to see Bill Stine at Estes. It means that any ruffled feathers from the past have long since been plucked.

Expertise is valuable, regardless of any perception of having been wronged. I've never known rocketeers to be an especially petty bunch.

 

[user 35280]

I am in Colorado, the birth state of model rocketry. I am not going to dis my “homie” Estes. And Apogee.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orville_Carlisle

 

[brockrwood]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orville_Carlisle

Nebraska is the birthplace of the “model rocket”. Colorado is the birthplace of the “hobby of model rocketry”. A subtle but important difference.
G. Harry Stine and Vern Estes created the hobby of model rocketry. In Colorado. Just by chance, perhaps, but they started the hobby/sport we love right here in Denver, the great Queen City of the Plains

Here is an analogy: “Fast food” restaurants existed before McDonald’s came into existence. McDonald’s existed before Ray Kroc took over and made it into the fast food institution it is today. Kroc anticipated the car culture and created a whole new industry: the fast food industry. That is what G. Harry Stine and Vern Estes did: They turned a thing, a model rocket, into a worldwide sport that had never existed before.

 

[user 35280]

Nebraska is the birthplace of the “model rocket”. Colorado is the birthplace of the “hobby of model rocketry”. A subtle but important difference.
G. Harry Stine and Vern Estes created the hobby of model rocketry. In Colorado. Just by chance, perhaps, but they started the hobby/sport we love right here in Denver, the great Queen City of the Plains

Here is an analogy: “Fast food” restaurants existed before McDonald’s came into existence. McDonald’s existed before Ray Kroc took over and made it into the fast food institution it is today. Kroc anticipated the car culture and created a whole new industry: the fast food industry. That is what G. Harry Stine and Vern Estes did: They turned a thing, a model rocket, into a worldwide sport that had never existed before.

You’re reaching there, come on esquire you got to do better than that analysis

 

[brockrwood]

You’re reaching there, come on esquire you got to do better than that analysis

Oh geez. Once you admit you are a lawyer you are dead. ;-).
Of course I have the utmost respect for Orville Carlisle. The Rock-a-chute was his invention and it started everything. If I had to choose one person as the “Father” of model rocketry, however, it would be Vern Estes. The model rocket engine-making machine he invented, Mabel, made the mass production of fairly affordable rocket engines possible. Without Mabel, the hobby could not have gotten started.

 

[user 35280]

Oh geez. Once you admit you are a lawyer you are dead. ;-).
Of course I have the utmost respect for Orville Carlisle. The Rock-a-chute was his invention and it started everything. If I had to choose one person as the “Father” of model rocketry, however, it would be Vern Estes. The model rocket engine-making machine he invented, Mabel, made the mass production of fairly affordable rocket engines possible. Without Mabel, the hobby could not have gotten started.

Great analysis esquire, but please don’t forget about Gleda Estes and everything she has done for our beloved hobby.
https://www.nar.org/gleda-m-estes-scholarship-2/

 

[brockrwood]

Great analysis esquire, but please don’t forget about Gleda Estes and everything she has done for our beloved hobby.
https://www.nar.org/gleda-m-estes-scholarship-2/

I met Gleda at the 2010 NARAM! She is a very nice lady!

 

[Initiator001]

Oh, good Lord! This sounds like excessively strict interpretation of the regulations by the authorities. Couldn't the tour guides simply lock up the black powder and avoid taking the visitors near the area where the large quantities of black powder are stored?

If I go to Hobby Lobby and browse the rocket engine selection, I am in the presence of large quantities of black powder. Should I get a background check first? ;-)

Estes has thousands of pounds of black powder stored on site.

Black powder is an explosive and DHS says unauthorized personnel must be kept away from it.
I understand all Estes employees must undergo training/certification as part of their initial orientation.

 

[Initiator001]

I ordered a bunch of 29 mm E and F BP motors from multiple vendors about 9 or 10 years ago when I became a BAR.
Never paid a Hazmat fee. Not once.
So I think the laws must have changed just a few years ago.

Laws/regulations have been the same for many years.

There is just more awareness of them now (And the possible penalties).

 

[Initiator001]

Does the HobbyTown in Santee stock the Estes BP and AT/Quest composite motors?

The Santee HobbyTown has always carried up to D12 motors.
I spent time talking with the store owner (Mark) back in February and he agreed to order the Quest Q-Jet motors in 18mm from A3-D16.
Those were in stock when I visited the store two weeks ago.

 

[Initiator001]

That’s silly. What do they think powers air-to-air missiles? Hugs and rainbows?

Black powder is classified as an explosive and explosives are not allowed on civilian aircraft.
Modern military missiles use composite propellant. Much safer but still not allowed on civilian aircraft.

 

[Initiator001]

Expertise is valuable, regardless of any perception of having been wronged. I've never known rocketeers to be an especially petty bunch.

You have never crossed paths with a hardcore NAR competitor or a Pink Book lawyer.

 

[Initiator001]

The irony of Bill Stine, son of G. Harry Stine, and former head of Estes’ main competitor, now in charge of Estes is not lost on me. It just goes to show: Being a rocketeer means you are part of a guild, a special group of like-minded people. I am glad to see Bill Stine at Estes. It means that any ruffled feathers from the past have long since been plucked.

Many folks in the hobby rocket industry have worked at a many different rocket companies.

Bill Stine started at Centuri/Estes, Enertek, MRC, founded Quest, sold Quest, bought back Quest, merged(?) with AeroTech, left AeroTech/Quest, joined Estes.

I started with AeroTech, went to Enertek (Bill Stine was my boss), returned to AeroTech. I even helped out Cox when they re-issued their RTF plastic rockets.

It is a small group of experienced folks who seem to keep appearing throughout the hobby rocket industry.

(If you want to know more about Enertek just type it in the search box here on TRF. I wrote a history of the company many years ago).

 

[smstachwick]

You have never crossed paths with a hardcore NAR competitor or a Pink Book lawyer.

You are correct sir! Ding ding ding ding ding! 🛎

 

[Alan15578]

Many folks in the hobby rocket industry have worked at a many different rocket companies.

Bill Stine started at Centuri/Estes, Enertek, MRC, founded Quest, sold Quest, bought back Quest, merged(?) with AeroTech, left AeroTech/Quest, joined Estes.

I started with AeroTech, went to Enertek (Bill Stine was my boss), returned to AeroTech. I even helped out Cox when they re-issued their RTF plastic rockets.

It is a small group of experienced folks who seem to keep appearing throughout the hobby rocket industry.

(If you want to know more about Enertek just type it in the search box here on TRF. I wrote a history of the company many years ago).

Sure, but they recently produced the Antares, a GHS design. When will they produce a comparable classic Bill Stine design?

 

[BABAR]

Oh, good Lord! This sounds like excessively strict interpretation of the regulations by the authorities. Couldn't the tour guides simply lock up the black powder and avoid taking the visitors near the area where the large quantities of black powder are stored?

If I go to Hobby Lobby and browse the rocket engine selection, I am in the presence of large quantities of black powder. Should I get a background check first? ;-)

I remember going on a tour of the Coors brewery in Golden, Colorado. I was in the presence of large quantities of beer stored in huge vats. What if one ruptured? ;-)

It has been a while, but I think I remember taking a tour of the North Anna Nuclear Power Station in Louisa County, Virginia, back in the 80's. I was in the presence of two pressurized water fission nuclear reactors controlled by finicky cadmium rods. I was still allowed in the tourist area.

Hey, I understand the need for government regulation of potentially dangerous activities and materials. I used to be a Federal agency lawyer many years ago. But, at least for the agencies I assisted, there was some common sense used in how the rules were interpreted and enforced. I was allowed to tour a surface coal mine in Colorado. That is an inherently dangerous activity. I was still allowed to go on a guided tour and look around.

Okay, you are operating under a false presumption. Despite all evidence to the contrary, you think the government in general and laws in particular should operate in a logical and rationale manner. Abandon this presumption, and the disparity between what you actually see and what you think you SHOULD actually see disappears.