Radio beacon setups for RDFing.

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Andrew_ASC

UTC SEDS 2017 3rd/ SEDS 2018 1st
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So right now I have purchased a Yaseu VX-6R, Telemini V3, Teledongle, Arrow Antenna 440-5 yagi and a patch cable. Am I going to need an attenuator? How important is an attenuator? Where do I buy one if needed or what kind? What else would you recommend? So far all I’ve done is configure Telemini through the Teledongle ground station via laptop for altimeter settings.

I’d like to learn to direction find a rocket. I’ve read the techniques posted by others but have zero experience at this HAM/rocketry RDFing. I was planing on plugging the handheld radio directly to the yagi tomorrow let me know if that’s a bad idea. Sorry for all the questions just kinda clueless in the just GPS it era.
 
I have a Baofeng cheap radio with an Arrow Yagi Never used an attenuator. The first time I tried my BRB beacon I put it in a pill bottle and zip ties it to the shock cord on a fully visible flight. I didn’t put any padding in the bottle and the bottom broke out. So I spent about 45 minutes searching for the transmitter. With that said, the attenuator would have helped whe I got close to the transmitter. It reduces the signal so when you are close you can still direction find. My radio signal strength meter isn’t near as good as yours on your Yaesu. You won’t damage anything connecting the Yagi with the patch cable. Oh one more thing. My Yagi is 3 element.
 
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The cheapest remedy if you need an attenuator is one of these: https://www.west.net/~marvin/k0ov.htm Works on 70cm and 2 meters. Make sure you inactivate your push to talk switch in your H/T because if you accidentally transmit
on your H/T while this attenuator is connected the attenuator is toasted. Tune 4Mhz off frequency and turn on the attenuator. The pot allows one to "dial in" the amount of attenuation desired and it really allows one to find the peak. Don't bother with a Baofeng radio of any kind because none of those cheap rigs have a "true" signal strength meter. It's either full "on" or full "off". Useless for fox hunting unless one is going to try doing it by ear. The Yaesu VX-6R should be fine. One will have to come up with a project box, knob, switch and connectors along with a battery. Remember, practice like crazy before flying. It really does help on the terminal phase of recovery. If the beacon is in the underbrush and you get close, you'll lose the directivity if you don't have an attenuator.

I forgot, Marvin has a 50mW 2m tracker if one has the space in a rocket for a longer antenna. One could rig a dipole on the harness or if the nosecone bay has room for a quarter wave antenna could use the superiority of the 2 meter band for NDB tracking (non-directional beacon)
https://www.west.net/~marvin/microhnt.htm He programmed mine with my callsign and a message in CW so it's easy for one to maintain a lock on this tracker. I use a 9V battery. Kurt
 
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So right now I have purchased a Yaseu VX-6R, Telemini V3, Teledongle, Arrow Antenna 440-5 yagi and a patch cable. Am I going to need an attenuator? How important is an attenuator? Where do I buy one if needed or what kind? What else would you recommend? So far all I’ve done is configure Telemini through the Teledongle ground station via laptop for altimeter settings.

I’d like to learn to direction find a rocket. I’ve read the techniques posted by others but have zero experience at this HAM/rocketry RDFing. I was planing on plugging the handheld radio directly to the yagi tomorrow let me know if that’s a bad idea. Sorry for all the questions just kinda clueless in the just GPS it era.

Plugging it in and trying is *exactly* what you should do. I have very little experience with the Telemini, but I assume that, like the other telemetry enabled Telemetrum devices, that it does produce a periodic tone transmission for RDF. Play with this a lot, and I think you'll find it a satisfying (okay, sometimes frustrating) activity. 70cm transmissions are fairly susceptible to reflections, so keep that in mind when you're direction-finding around structures - and that can lead to some wild-goose chases, but be patient. This is better out in the country where we usually fly rockets, but even a grain bin or odd house can cause some confusion.

An attenuator will help the RDF process quite a bit, and the one that Kurt suggests is really handy. - its purpose is to diminish the signal strength reaching the receiver so that a change in antenna direction relative to the transmission will result in a significant change in the signal strength meter and audio signal. When you're distant from the transmitter, or it's signal is very small, you'll see and hear a significant change in signal strength as you move the antenna toward or away from the transmitter. As you get closer, you won't detect any change in signal strength as you change antenna direction. That's when you increase the attenuation, and get back to using the dynamic range of the s-meter on the display, and hear the audible change in signal quality as the antenna points toward vs. away from the transmitter. Make sense? Practice definitely helps - do it before it's time to find your rocket using this skill - you'll appreciate it.

*Do Not* wait until the rocket is on the ground to start your direction finding. Signal strength will be great when the rocket is in the air, but once on the ground, especially at a distance, the signal may suddenly be very small, so it's really important to head in the right general direction at first. (one big difference between this and GPS tracking)

You can employ some alternatives to an external active attenuator, with some sacrifices, but they're worth a try. The VX-6 (a great radio, by the way) does have a built-in attenuator that will help *some*, and as you get familiar with the radio, you'll learn how to turn that on and off, and also set the frequency step-size small enough to make little changes in tuning. The "active" or "offset" attenuator, like the K0OV device better isolates the radio from the transmission, as it's allowing you to tune off of the transmitted frequency, and get very close while still maintaining that dynamic range of signal strength meter and sound quality.

I've rambled enough, but happy to provide clarification, if you'd like. Foxhunting, or amateur radio direction finding has been a passion of mine, and believe it or not, it can get you a bunch closer to a rocket hidden in tall grass or crops than a GPS will do (though I love some of our GPS tracker options, too).

Do some Googling on amateur radio direction finding or RDF rocket tracking, and you'll find some good tutorials. Have fun.

[Edit: and now I see one of the other good, old, resurrected TRF threads on RDF tracking, so apologies for any repeated info: https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/grouchs-rdf-tips-and-techniques.127758/]

Mark
 
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Is there an attenuator to Yagi To SMA? Or instructions on how to do that?
 
Surbia isn’t really ideal HAM testing ground. I’ll need to go get an attenuator tomorrow. Maybe have a chat with the radio folks at p5 preparedness.
 
I failed to fox hunt without the attenuators. Even the internal VX-6R attenuator wasn’t enough for sub 150ft work. (Residential neighborhood)
 
Sigh.... not Serbia... the neighborhood. Yeah they think I’m weird for playing with an Antenna now. But I already took it to Walmart once and everyone stared.
 
Upgrading setup to one of those 4MHz Fox Hunt offset attenuators by Arrow Antenna.
 
The periodic tone transmission is options at 3750,4000, and 4250 frequency rate. It pulses when in pad mode is all I know. 4250 gets a beep every five seconds while 3750 gets a beep every ten seconds. Heard the RDF transmitter works only during boost or landing, not really certain as the handheld is picking up periodic full strength tones on pad mode. I really need an attenuator.
 
Is transmitting when a Attenuator is off okay? I hope I didn’t ruin it. Just brazed the PTT key when it was off. The Attenuator seems to decrease signal strength as I turn the knob on.
 
Is transmitting when a Attenuator is off okay? I hope I didn’t ruin it. Just brazed the PTT key when it was off. The Attenuator seems to decrease signal strength as I turn the knob on.

Transmitting into the attenuator is very bad for it. Most are rated at a fraction of a watt. If the radio was set to low power and the transmission was short enough it is possible that it wasn't damaged. You would need to have some good test equipment to check it out and know for sure.
 
Crap. I can order another I guess. It was off, but maybe it still got damaged.
 
Crap. I can order another I guess. It was off, but maybe it still got damaged.

Oh, you did mention it was off. It is probably OK then. The web page does say not to transmit into the device. I guess it depends upon what the off switch does. Does it just disconnect the battery or does it take the attenuator our of circuit.
 
I found this schematic of an offset attenuator on another site (https://www.homingin.com/joek0ov/offatten.html). I assume yours is similar. The instructions say that if you transmit into the attenuator you will damage D1. If you have access to a multi-meter you should be able to check the diode and see if it is still good.
attschem2.gif
 
Ordered another offset Attenuator. Don’t want to risk a rocket on a bad Attenuator I “possibly” ruined. Thanks man.
 
Unless you transmitted for a long time it should not hurt things. In my experience (don't ask) the HT will actually be damaged before the attenuator.

Ground test(!) and practice. DFing is not rocket science, but you do need to get in some training and practice to be really successful.
 
HT seems fine. Signal strength bar still works near flawlessly. I was direction finding from a half mile away on suburb streets. Been ground testing it. Only momentarily brushed the PTT key less than a second or so. The Attenuator changes the signal strength still so it is likely ok. At about sixty yards the Attenuator once turned on will direction find what used to be a maxed signal strength into a lower strength signal where as I exaggerate the yagi position away from the beacon the signal rapidly falls off. I keep attenuating until about a yard from the beacon. Will compare the new Attenuator to the old one when it arrives. I may end up having a spare ok unit. I think I got real lucky and nothing is severely damaged if damaged at all.

Anyways I got a hella hard multistage refrigeration cycle exam for thermal component design and not much time to play with it until the weekend.
 
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