R133: NAR S&T NEW MOTOR CERTIFICATIONS

[billspad]

The following motors have been certified by NAR Standards & Testing for
general use as Model Rocket Motors effective December 14, 2009


*************************************
Quest:

D8-0,3,5
24mm x 70mm
18.59 Newton-seconds Total Impulse
28.88 Newtons Peak Thrust
8.44 Newtons Average Thrust

Propellant mass: 22.0 grams

*************************************
Quest:

D5-4,6
20mm x 96mm
17.61 Newton-seconds Total Impulse
16.80 Newtons Peak Thrust
3.82 Newtons Average Thrust

Propellant mass: 24.0 grams

*************************************

 

[kjohnson]

I love how this sort of stuff shows up on TRF before the NAR website.

kj

 

[shreadvector]

https://www.entertonement.com/clips/ljwdgkrgyj--11https://www.dailywav.com/1009/theyrehere.wav

 

[Initiator001]

I love how this sort of stuff shows up on TRF before the NAR website.

kj

I received an e-mail from the NAR stating the information Bill has posted.

 

[Initiator001]

Most excellent!

Now, just need California classification for those motors and I'll be flying them!

Look out, Fred! :y:

 

[billspad]

I received an e-mail from the NAR stating the information Bill has posted.

It's sent out first using Constant Contact and to other testing agencies and the forums shortly after that. That's the easy part. In its current form the NAR website is not particularly easy to change. I have to put the information into a spreadsheet and somebody else makes the changes to the website. I've also got a bunch of TMT and CAR certifications to add so I'm not going to ask our web guy to make the changes until they're done. They tell me that someday this will be sort of automatic.

 

[Fishhead]

The following motors have been certified by NAR Standards & Testing for
general use as Model Rocket Motors effective December 14, 2009


*************************************
Quest:

D8-0,3,5
24mm x 70mm
18.59 Newton-seconds Total Impulse
28.88 Newtons Peak Thrust
8.44 Newtons Average Thrust

Propellant mass: 22.0 grams

*************************************
Quest:

D5-4,6
20mm x 96mm
17.61 Newton-seconds Total Impulse
16.80 Newtons Peak Thrust
3.82 Newtons Average Thrust

Propellant mass: 24.0 grams

*************************************

20mm? Interesting.

 

[MarkII]

I figured out awhile back that one could use Semroc Series 085 tubing (LT-085) for motor tubes for these 20mm motors. The motors will need perhaps 4-5 wraps of masking tape to fit, which is similar to how FSI motors were fitted into their motor tubes. Alternatively, you can also take a length of Semroc BT-40 and slit it down the side, spread it open a bit and then glue it inside the LT-085 tube. There will be a small slot remaining along the new inner wall of the tube, but you can block that easily with another rectangle of tubing or some durable putty such as JB Stick or Bondo. You only need to block a small section of it at the aft end to create a gas seal for the ejection gas.

A 20mm diameter motor will fit into the resulting tube with 0.009" of clearance all around it. This should be tight enough, but if the motor is still a bit loose the fit can be enhanced with a wrap of masking tape.

Your new motor mount or motor adapter will have an outside diameter of 0.945" and therefore it will fit snugly inside a standard 24mm motor mount.

MarkII

 

[MarkII]

Without having actually seen any of them (yet), I can hazard a guess that these new Quest 20mm diameter motors will appear to be only slightly larger than standard 18mm motors, and their profile will be noticeably smaller in diameter (thinner) than 24mm motors. 20mm is equivalent to about 0.787", so the motors will be just slightly too large to fit into a tube such as BT-40 (0.765" ID). Gluing a slit BT-40 inside a length of LT-085 would be the best available option for constructing either a stand-alone motor tube or a 24-20 motor mount adapter for them. Quest sells T20, or 20mm diameter body tubes, but 20mm is the outside diameter of those tubes.

MarkII

 

[RoyAtl]

They're definitely larger motors; i.e. you wouldn't mistake them for standard 18mm moors. Not quite as big as the old FSI E5, but similar looking.

It'll be fun to fly one in a regular rocket (vs. the current plugged ones that can only go in Applewhite saucers -- or for others, monocopters and r/c gliders)

 

[BigRiJoe]

Qualified Competition Rockets now sells a 21mm tube with a corresponding fiber thrust ring

 

[shreadvector]

Most excellent!

Now, just need California classification for those motors and I'll be flying them!

Look out, Fred! :y:

I'll bet Quest has that already. They are quite good at getting that done (and maybe the S&T announcement is held until that is official?). I'm sure a call to Nettie or Bill will confirm that (and also get details on pricing, when they will show up on the website, bulk packs, 21mm body tubes, revisions to the new kit instructions to include the new motors, new launch pad?, etc.).

 

[bobkrech]

I love how this sort of stuff shows up on TRF before the NAR website.

kj

KJ

Bill is the S&T Secretary and he posts the certification notices on all the rocketry forums.

I'm the Technology Officer at S&T and compiled the Motor Testing Manual posted at https://www.nar.org/SandT/docs/ST-MotorTestingManual.pdf

Our aim is to get information out to the hobby community as soon as it becomes available via all available media.

Bob

 

[BEC]

Any chance we can see time-thrust curves before these are on the NAR site?

 

[conleyt]

I just realized, the D5s with delays are listed as 20mm X 96mm. Aren't the D5-0s 20mm X 88mm?

Tom C.

 

[Swampworks]

See attached for curve data

View attachment quest-D5.pdf

View attachment quest-D8.pdf

 

[bobkrech]

Any chance we can see time-thrust curves before these are on the NAR site?

The thrust curves and wrasp file information for any NAR S&T certified motor can be found here. https://www.nar.org/SandT/NARenglist.shtml

You can copy and past the .eng file data from the individual certification sheets.

The data sheets for new motor certifications are normally posted at the above address within 24 hours of the formal release but since NAR is a volunteer organization, it might take a few day because we all have real jobs and lives outside the hobby.

Bob

 

[Buckaroo]

... because we all have real jobs and lives outside the hobby.

Bob

... real jobs ...lives That's funny :cyclops:

 

[BEC]

Thanks for the data. I understand about volunteers....

 

[gpoehlein]

This question is mostly aimed at Bill: How long does it usually take to go from Sport Certification to Contest Certification? Just wondering when the new Quest D5s will be usable for contest flights.

Thanks for all the hard work - I for one really do appreciate it! :clap:

 

[billspad]

This question is mostly aimed at Bill: How long does it usually take to go from Sport Certification to Contest Certification? Just wondering when the new Quest D5s will be usable for contest flights.

Thanks for all the hard work - I for one really do appreciate it! :clap:

This is one of those things that S & T would love to give to the Contest Board. The motor has to be "available to dealers and/or consumers from the manufacturer and is therefore available for purchase by any consumer in the U.S.". I'm pretty sure we're at that point now so I'll ask and get back to you.

 

[gpoehlein]

This is one of those things that S & T would love to give to the Contest Board. The motor has to be "available to dealers and/or consumers from the manufacturer and is therefore available for purchase by any consumer in the U.S.". I'm pretty sure we're at that point now so I'll ask and get back to you.

Should be - gonna order some today to give them a try. Thanks for the info!