# Question Re: HPR magazine

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#### Captain Dunsel

##### Member
Hi everyone. I'm new to the forum and had a question. My Tripoli renewal notice came in the mail the other day. I quit subscribing to HPR magazine a few years back because of there inability to publish the promised yearly number of issues. Before I renew I was wondering if anyone could tell me if that situation has improved at all. If it has I may subcribe again. If not I may not even renew with Tripoli and switch to NAR instead. Would my current cert. level be recognized by NAR. I appreciate any answers/perspective anyone could provide me.

#### AlexM

##### Well-Known Member
I am pretty certain that your cert level in TRA is honored by the NAR.

#### AlexM

##### Well-Known Member
This is from the NAR site:

NAR members who are currently Tripoli Level 1 certified may grandfather at the NAR Level 1 by completing the identification portion of a NAR high power application and attaching proof of current Tripoli certification (e.g., photocopy of Tripoli consumer confirmation card) to NAR headquarters with a request that their certification level be updated.

NAR members who are currently Tripoli Level 2 certified may grandfather at the NAR Level 2 by completing the identification portion of a NAR high power application and attaching proof of current Tripoli certification (e.g., Tripoli consumer confirmation card) to NAR headquarters with a request that their certification level be updated.

Tripoli certifications will be honored at NAR launches. A current Tripoli consumer confirmation card is required as evidence of Tripoli high power certification at launches.

Lapses in the NAR membership over one year will void all certifications. Certifications will have to be repeated starting with Level 1.

#### loopy

##### Well-Known Member
You may want to verify with NAR first though, because the above posts sound like they are referring to updating existing NAR memberships with TRA certs, not new NAR memberships. Kind of splitting hairs, but I think this is one you'd want to split rather than have to re-certify.

Loopy

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#### Austin

Captain,

If your current TRA membership is still valid, IE: has not yet expired, you can send a photocopy of it along with your NAR application and you will automatically receive the same cert level on your NAR card that you have for TRA. It also works the other way too...you can join TRA and automatically receive the same cert level as your current NAR cert.

Those are the facts...

Carl Tulanko
Chairman
NAR Sport Services
NAR 79454 L3CC
TRA 08664 L3

#### rstaff3

##### Oddroc-eteer
Yup, that's what I did when I re-joined NAR

#### Johnnie

##### Well-Known Member
Wow, no plugs for TRA...

If all you want is the magazine, do what I do...I am Tripoli, but I get all three magazines off of the newstand. (HPR, Extreme Rocketry, and Sport Rocketry)

Tripoli members can basically do all that NAR do, but as a TRA member you may also wish to pursue the AM/EX side of rocketry...NAR still will not go there.

I say basically, as I am not sure if non NAR members can participate in NAR competition...If that is indeed the case, and you are a parachute duration kinda rocketeer, than NAR is for you.

If you think that AM/EX is an intersting route to go in the future, then TRA might be best.

I tried doing both org's for a couple of years, but ouch! renewal for one or the other or both was getting pricy...I stuck with TRA w/o subscription.

Good luck with your choices, both groups are awesome. Simply put, no matter which org you go with, you can't go wrong.

#### Chilly

##### Well-Known Member
I was getting HPR until June, then I renewed with no mag. The delivery was still a little spotty, especially for the cost. They seem to be getting things in order but it's a long crawl.
To give you an idea, the June issue's lead article was a launch report from LDRS 2003. At least they got it out before LDRS 2004!

I wouldn't have said this a few months ago, but Extreme Rocketry has gotten a lot better. Much more original content with better writing & editing all around. I'm a little biased because they published my "Aft Closure" column last month...

#### Captain Dunsel

##### Member
Thanks guys. I have been renewing with TRA for the last couple years without subscribing to HPR. I have not been able to find it on the news stand (may need to try Books-A-Million or B&N). I am perplexed that they still do not seem to be able to put out the specified number of issues, which in my book is just plain mail fraud. I am also considering quiting TRA because, frankly, I think it is unforgivable that they continue to allow thier membership to be fleeced in this manner. There is no exceptable exscuse for allowing it to go on as long as they have. Hard to take them seriously as an organization looking out for our intrest when they can't stay on top of something as simple as making sure the club endorsed publication meets their subscription obligations.

#### Johnnie

##### Well-Known Member
Have you been to a Manchester, TN launch yet? Come on over and fly with MC2 and HARA...

Welcome to the forum I might add

#### Captain Dunsel

##### Member
Thanks Johnnie, I will take you up on that. Actually have been there twice. I keep the website for SMART and know John Storey who goes there a lot. I am a die hard SMART member, but since they moved to a field near Sevierville it is about 30-40 miles further for me. Ya'll are actually a lot closer and have a much nicer field. I may just have to formally join MC2 also.
Don't really mean to bad mouth TRA too bad, I probably will renew but they really need to make HPR put out the mag as frequently as promised or end their association with it. I do subscribe to Extreme Rocketry and would like to get NAR's publication also.

May recognize my F104 from one of your launches I attended. (picture attached)

Kirk
TRA 7600

#### Stymye

##### Well-Known Member
welcome kirk,
I think I remember the F-104 at Mc2 ,,on an I or H mabey?
such a nice job, I've debated getting one ever since.

#### Johnnie

##### Well-Known Member
Agreed Kirk, I dumped the mag subscrip 2 years ago when I only received 5 of the 9 issues that were promised. It used to upset me that I could usually pick up the issue 2 weeks ahead of time at a local Barnes & Noble newsstand, before it would ever darken my doorstop. Seems to me that the core members would get the first print, but instead B&N did.

Incidently our B&N stopped putting them out on the shelves because they were getting May issues in Oct. etc. and their policy was to not have any outdated material on the shelves. They indicated that all those types of deliveries were shipped back...

I get Extreme Rocketry and Sport Rocketry at a local Hobby Town USA.

Great F104, I must have missed that launch.

John Storey is a "gasser," which I have become once again, looking forward to seeing you both at a launch in Manchester, TN.

#### Chilly

##### Well-Known Member
That F-104 is sweet! Is that a scratchbuild or kit?

#### Chilly

##### Well-Known Member
Ahh...maybe it looks more original to my eyes since I don't have as much time to surf the 'net as I used to!!!

#### Jerry Irvine

##### Well-Known Member
Originally posted by Captain Dunsel
Thanks guys. I have been renewing with TRA for the last couple years without subscribing to HPR. I have not been able to find it on the news stand (may need to try Books-A-Million or B&N). I am perplexed that they still do not seem to be able to put out the specified number of issues, which in my book is just plain mail fraud. I am also considering quiting TRA because, frankly, I think it is unforgivable that they continue to allow thier membership to be fleeced in this manner. There is no exceptable exscuse for allowing it to go on as long as they have. Hard to take them seriously as an organization looking out for our intrest when they can't stay on top of something as simple as making sure the club endorsed publication meets their subscription obligations.
I soooo agree.

Jerry

TRA#12
Founder Prefecture #7
Attended LDRS-1,2,3
Done more L1 certs than all but a handful of humans.

A

#### Austin

Kirk, Johnnie and the rest,

Guys, this thread will not turn into a TRA bashing session. The organization has had problems in the past with the magazine and most people know that. It is important to note that the magazine is produced by a seperate business and not by TRA, hence they have no control over production. However, it should not inhibit you from joining TRA, as they are a great organization for HPR rocketeers. Just do what has already been mentioned and join without the mag.

Another benefit of TRA is that membership without the magazine is now cheaper than NAR's by a couple dollars. It all depends on what you want to do. If you want HPR and EX, going the TRA route would be your best bet. If you like modrocks, HPR and contests, then NAR would be your best bet. Do like many of us do if you can, join both and enjoy spreading the wealth around!

Carl

#### Thrasher

##### Well-Known Member
HPR mag has said many times in response to the complaints that the mag suffers because the members are not submitting material. They are printing every mag now, but some issues seem stuffed with "filler" crap. I send articles and hope for better issues in the future. I cannot find any bookstore, including B&N, that sell any rocket mag.

#### llickteig1

##### KLOUDBusters Chief Logistician
Your best bet for rocketry magazines is a hobby shop that sells a lot of rocketry stuff.

Rocketry is a niche market and it is not profitable for the magazine publisher nor the retailer to carry magazines that are not likely to sell. In the magazine business, sales are guaranteed, so if they expire on the shelf, the publisher refunds the cost of the unsold issues and the magazines get trashed. No one makes money. Directed and impulse sales in hobby shops are more likely plus hobby shops will be more likely to hold older issues longer.

Also, for some time, HPR was not distributing magazines to retailers (only subscribers got 'em). I'm not sure why, it doesn't make too much sense because it seems like a catch 22 on the bottom line if none are sold at the newsstand price. Here we were able to order a dozen of each of the LDRS XXII issues for our club members to purchase.

--Lance.

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#### Austin

Thrasher,

I agree with Lance, the hobby shops are your best bet. I have seen both Extreme Rocketry and NAR's Sport Rocketry Magazines on the shelves at our local Hobbytown USA and other similar shops.

Carl

#### Bill

##### Well-Known Member
Originally posted by llickteig1
Your best bet for rocketry magazines is a hobby shop that sells a lot of rocketry stuff.

Also, for some time, HPR was not distributing magazines to retailers (only subscribers got 'em).

I have not seen HPR in a hobby shop in many many years. For awhile in 2003, it was available in diverse outlets like Barnes & Noble, Tower Records and Micro Center. As the publication schedule returned to its normal irregular status, they all gave up.

Bill

#### Rick James

##### Well-Known Member
I used to buy HPR at the Hobby Shop, but since our local shop closed down a few years ago, I haven't seen it. HPR was at XPRS and I noticed the later magazines were substantially smaller than the old ones -- I don't mean the number of pages -- I mean they looked like they were smaller sized sheets and didn't seem as high quality. When did they get smaller? Perhaps they should change the name to MPR...

A

#### Austin

Originally posted by jcrocket

Well this is interesting. Do the "Mods" have a more accurate number of issues published by HPRM for this year?

Joel. phx
Joel,

No we do not, however, the content included a slam against an organization. It is our right to remove attacks against persons or groups; these violate our policies on the forum. Moreover, we can do so without prior knowlege or explanation; it is only out of common courtesy we aknowlege your request and respond in kind. We only ask that the topic be kept friendly and informative.

Have a good one,

Carl

#### DynaSoar

##### Well-Known Member
$66 a year for theoretically 12 issues of HPRM ($52 for TRA)
$40 a year for 6 issues of Extreme Rocketry. That's over 100 dollars a year for two magazines that overlap so much in such a small community that not only are the same people in both, but the very subscribers know them and each other too. It's too many magazines. HPRM not publishing due to lack of good material is proof of this, as is XR's publishing only 6 per year. There's just not enough audience to compete for. TRA and HPRM should cut a deal with Brent McNeely to supply him with their material and a payment to be deteremined to produce for them, and he supplies TRA members with a magazine. They'd both make out better, one magazine with 1.5 magazine's worth of material would be way more successful in subscription and on the newsstand, and fewer people would be resentful. HPR Publishing is clearly not able to hold up their end of their bargain, and that is costing them as well as TRA people problems. #### Bill ##### Well-Known Member #### Captain Dunsel ##### Member Reviewing my earlier posts I can see where I was a little harsh on TRA. I have the greatest respect for them (and I did go ahead and mail in my renewal). My main beef was with HPR. I understand TRA and HPR are seperate entities, but TRA has to realize as long as they collect subscription money on HPR's behalf they leave themselves open to criticism. #### Chilly ##### Well-Known Member Well, there's a lot here to chew on. I'd love to see Extreme Rocketry become the official TRA mag. It seems to publish on a more reliable schedule (which I believe is 9 issues a year, not 6 as someone mentioned above). HPR has certainly had its problems and it's surprising that they'd want to shoot for 12 a year before they even got it back up to the original 9. Walk before you run, so to speak. #### troj ##### Wielder Of the Skillet Of Harsh Discipline, Potent Originally posted by DynaSoar$66 a year for theoretically 12 issues of HPRM ($52 for TRA)$40 a year for 6 issues of Extreme Rocketry.
Extreme Rocketry is 9 times per year, rather than 6.

-Kevin

#### Jerry Irvine

##### Well-Known Member
Originally posted by jcrocket

Well this is interesting. Do the "Mods" have a more accurate number of issues published by HPRM for this year?

Joel. phx
No. They simply do not want you posting the most accurate possible information because they "judge" it to be bashing.

Apparanlly they disregard that it is simple observation of reality.

This is one of the reasons why HPR magazine (formerly Tripolitan) HAS problems. So many folks apologize for, and tolerate repeated failure, by Brucie, nobody is left to simply correct the problem and move on to a positive world.

This behavior IS consistent for the past 15 years of MY observations.

Oh, and I volunteered to do it same time Bruce did (and consistently since), I was even selected for a while then the "sale" was consumated.

I would have paid at least \$1 more than Bruce if asked

Jerry

#### Jerry Irvine

##### Well-Known Member
Originally posted by DynaSoar
There's just not enough audience to compete for.
I told you so.

And how to correct that (on rmr).

Jerry