Question on Red Max versions

Discussion in 'Low Power Rocketry (LPR)' started by BMG22, Nov 14, 2017.

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  1. Nov 14, 2017 #1

    BMG22

    BMG22

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    Hey all,

    My Der Red Max had gone missing when I moved back home from Kentucky, so I was browsing JimZ's last night to see if he had the plans and fin patterns. I have some BT-60 in my parts box and the nose cone, so cloning wouldn't be that hard. I found that JimZ has the appropriate plans, but in addition to Der Red Max there is a Der Big Red Max. Looking at it, am I correct in assuming that it is the EXACT SAME as a regular Max, apart from length of body tube?

    BTW, that move happened in 2014. And since last night I found the missing box of rocket stuff, including my missing Red Max. Off to de launch pahd! Macht schnell!
     
  2. Nov 14, 2017 #2

    mn-rocketry

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  3. Jan 30, 2018 #3

    TTG

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    What size engine mount do you think you could put in the Big Der Red Max? I've been playing with the idea of building one, but wouldn't want it to be underpowered.
     
  4. Jan 30, 2018 #4

    rharshberger

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    18mm is what it came with, but a 24mm would be a nice upgrade, any larger and you have to start thinking TTW and stronger centering rings than paper.
     
  5. Jan 31, 2018 #5

    Scott_650

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    29mm engine mount would be an ok choice - and you wouldn’t need to build all that much stronger if you stick with Estes BP 29mm motors - 24mm motors with an adapter would work well. If you plan on putting your Big Red Max up over a big composite motor it’ll need some stronger motor mount components. BT-60 sized body tubes are so adaptable!
     
  6. Jan 31, 2018 #6

    mn-rocketry

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    I built a Der Big Red Max clone with a 24mm motor mount. I've flown it on C11 and D12 motors.
     
  7. Jan 31, 2018 #7

    TTG

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    What about those grand fins, would they be a problem with that big of an engine? I'd hate to strip them right off.....they would be made of basswood, but I could probably look at building them where they have fin tabs and I could insert them into the body of the rocket....that would probably make it much stronger.
     
  8. Jan 31, 2018 #8

    Scott_650

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    Again, if you stick to Estes BP 29mm motors surface mount fins - either papered balsa or plain basswood - should be safe. Looking at the thrust differences between Estes BP 24s and 29s, the 29s aren’t that much more powerful. Disclaimer - all my 29mm rockets have at least tabbed fins so this is pretty much conjecture. Though I have flown a fair number of Estes BP 29s - great motor for my relatively small flying field under some fairly heavy MPR rockets. Love the almost slow motion effect of the long BP burns of these motors. Got me thinking I need to add an upscaled Max to my fleet...with a 29mm motor mount of course. Something smaller than a Mega DRM but bigger than BT-60...
     
  9. Jan 31, 2018 #9

    K'Tesh

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    The Der Big Red Max (Kit No. 1977) originally came with the two piece PNC-60AH (black, injection molded) nosecone which has an exposed length of 6 5/8" long. The 1970s-1980s version of the one piece (white, blow molded) version of the PNC-60AH is 3/32" longer (I measured them again last week... I don't have a modern PNC-60AH to check against) . I'm trying to track down instructions for the Der Big Red Max (1403) (came in a starter set). Scans of the catalogs aren't clear enough for me to determine if the one piece nosecone was used or not.

    The Citation Der Red Max (MK-2) used the two piece nosecone.

    Subsequent versions of the Der Red Max (Mini, Mega, and Reissued) use one piece blow molded nosecones. I don't know when the BT-60 kit was reissued, but my samples came with black blow molded nosecones.
     
  10. Feb 8, 2018 #10

    OC-Patrick

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    how heavy was it? how did it perform with the C11?
     
  11. Feb 8, 2018 #11

    TTG

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    When I built my Der Red Max, I bought a Screamin' Mimi and scavenged the nose cone and body tube from that, the Mimi's cone is in ordung for the Max. I think the rest of it, I followed the instructions on JimZ's website. I built it with a D engine mount, by the way.
     
  12. Feb 11, 2018 #12

    SCIGS30

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  13. Feb 11, 2018 #13

    K'Tesh

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    Any chance you could scan the instructions for them? I'd love to see them archived for posterity.
     
  14. Feb 11, 2018 #14

    TTG

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    What do you think the biggest engine mount would be that you could put into a Big Red Max without risking damage to the rocket?
     
  15. Feb 11, 2018 #15

    solid_fuel

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    I think a 38mm mount would fit in there without any damage. launching it on a 38mm however could be problematic. :wink:
     
  16. Feb 11, 2018 #16

    dhbarr

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    I can confirm Loki G's slide nicely inside a bt60 coupler.
     
  17. Feb 14, 2018 #17

    CoachSteve

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    [​IMG][/URL][/IMG]Careful with the Red Max's - they can be addicting :)
     
  18. Feb 14, 2018 #18

    OC-Patrick

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    :clap:

    outstanding collection!
     
  19. Feb 14, 2018 #19

    Bat-mite

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    Those are obviously not all Estes kits. Scratch-built? Care to give a little background info on each one?
     
  20. Feb 14, 2018 #20

    CoachSteve

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    lol - your correct. Lets see here - Left to right
    1. A Scratch build BT-5 (13mm) tube and Estes "Quark" nose cone and "Carded" mini max graphics file from Hans "Chris" Michielssen
    2. A Scratch build BT-20 (18mm) tube and Estes nose cone I had in the parts bin, I scaled up the "carded" file from #1
    3. An Estes Mini Max kit #2445
    4. A Scratch built BT-56 (34.2mm) tube and an old nose cone I had from an original Estes helicopter recovery rocket and again up-scaled graphics from the "Carded" file
    5. An Estes Red Max kit #0651
    6. A Scratch built BT-70 (56 mm)tube and a nose cone from Balsa Machining Service, graphics are inkjet printed water-slide decals I extracted from the intranet and sized
    7. is the rare Estes Mega Red Max kit #9705 - I found this kit 3 months ago from an intranet hobby store, if you can believe it. (I had contacted no less than 40 stores trying to find one)

    I think I may have a problem :)
     
  21. Feb 14, 2018 #21

    Bat-mite

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    Now you need one of these and one of these. :dark:
     
  22. Feb 14, 2018 #22

    CoachSteve

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    My wife is quite understanding of my obsession but those might get me into trouble :)
    I really want the fiberglass one though - I have been eyeballing that guy for some time
     
  23. Feb 15, 2018 #23

    kuririn

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    Hmmmm.... Methinks a Micro Maxx version would complete the collection...and not get you in trouble!
     
  24. Feb 15, 2018 #24

    CoachSteve

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    good idea - have to look into that

    Sorry for the hijack BMG - wasn't my intent :)
     
  25. Feb 15, 2018 #25

    kuririn

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    BMG22,
    Looking at both original instructions from Jimmy Z's site, they both use the PNC-60AH nose cone, 18mm motor mount, 18" parachute, and BT-60 tubing. Only difference is the length of the body tube. So, to answer your original question, I would say that is the only difference.
    If you decide to put in a 24mm mount, it will take off like crazy on a D12. Try a C11 first. Lost mine.
     
  26. Feb 15, 2018 #26

    CoachSteve

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    I would go with the C-11 as well - those D-12s really pack a punch :)
     
  27. Sep 11, 2019 #27

    Red7Fifty

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    The BigDerRedMax early version came with 2 piece nose cone in white. I have instructions.....been using the single photo of decal placement, and comparing it to the early decal placement of the DRM.....so many conflicting decal placement........I built a bunch with decals in the wrong place. I think you have to choose one (early decal placement conflicts with later issues). Point to keep in mind, that there shouldn't be 2 identical decals visible on the opposing fins from any angle. I'll post pictures later.
     
  28. Sep 11, 2019 #28

    K'Tesh

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    I was unaware of them being sent with the white 2 piece PNC-60AH nosecone. I've only seen a few images of authentic unbuilt kits, and none of them had the white nosecone.

    My sim's decal placements have been based on images either seen in the instructions or the catalogs. The DRM family has a long history of shifting decal placements and even which decals are included and which aren't (namely the white Mitt Grabben/Nicht Stompen and the nosecone decals). One day I'd love to be able to collect bagged samples of each version/variant of the DRM family, and also be able to build them as well.

    I'd love to see a scan of the instructions you've got.
     
  29. Sep 11, 2019 #29

    Red7Fifty

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    The white decals have always been a part of the set as far as I can remember. My 2010 kits have them, but, in the previous batch of decals afterwards (2017), the white decals were omitted.....glad to say, my recent 2018 production kits I have been receiving lately, have them included again. I have a bunch of 2017 editions that are missing the white decals, which is ok by me...because my first DRM built in 1983-ish, I didn't even put it on. lol.
    I might get around to post the instructions.......stay tuned.
    Now, I'd like to buy a 1980's edition kit, NIB. Just missed one on fee-bay a couple months ago. Oh well.
    If anyone has a clean nib....(smoke free), I'm interested if the price is right. :)
     
  30. Sep 11, 2019 #30

    K'Tesh

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    Ok, when you say the white decal are included again... Do you have any of them still on the decal sheet? I know where the nosecone decal is supposed to be, but I wasn't informed as to whether or not the handprint and foot print decals were included. I would love to see a photo (or scan with a ruler) of any decal sheets that do have the white decals. Especially if they have the date embossed on the sheet. I'm trying to score a pair of the modern release with them included as I'm looking to build my DBRMII design, and I want to know what kitting dates are safe and which to avoid.

    It's my understanding from my conversations with John Boren that the newest (and presumably all future) DRM decals will have a black border around the white decals to help people see them as the white backing material makes them hard to see otherwise.
     

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