Question on home space heaters

[DES]

I almost found what I was talking about! Except at this size, they call it an "electric fireplace". And I'm not sure these actually "heat".

View attachment 495436
https://comfyhearth.com/product-cat...ces/electric-fireplace-tv-and-media-consoles/
If I were to get one, I'd want a single chip to control everything in the picture, and that chip would be fed with a not-quite-significant phantom current, because when "off", I'd want the fireplace part to show a CGI aquarium with many big 3D high-definition swimming fish.

Many of these so called electric fire places do incorporate a 1500-1800 electric space heater. FYI, at 0.15 cents / KW hour, a space heater runs about $0.23 dollars an hour to run at full on. Not a huge sum, but it adds up, so I do suggest a unit with a timer built in.

 

[rcktnut]

I didn’t like the idea of hot coils potentially setting off CA fumes

Cyanoacrylate - Super Glue. I also worry about Epoxy fumes being flammable. I'm not a worry-wort but have some burn scars on my leg from years ago and don't wish that on anyone.

I would say a person would be dead from inhaling the fumes long before they would ignite from an electric heater or any other open source of combustion.

 

[Halvey]

Like others said, The problem is unplugging and replugging each time or use?,,if I read that right. With Each plug yank, just consider a bit more resistance to run your heater next time and the other risks that climb as well(riding the lightening, youch!,, especially if your set to run at 1500 when socketed right in. The on-off/ "Idiot" lights are very low draw as you already know. But, if you have a bunch of electronic idiot lights lit all around the house on your fancy uppety gadgets,,then the meter hums a bit fast. All bets are off at Christmas time for your power bill. My Meter is trying to reverse Earth's rotation right now,,lol.

40,000 twinkle/Idiot? lights.

Yep, Tip-Over and also Over-heat safety's please. Some of the older Titan heaters don't have that Over-heat,,and they sold millions of those to us. Buyer beware on a old electric heater.

 

[Alan15578]

Heat pumps in most situations are more efficient, however if you live in a really cold climate where you'll see many days below freezing, then you might need to consider an alternative backup heating source for those days,

TP

I am amazed at the number of responses my simple rebuttal received. My cousin has a country home with a Geothermal heat pump. It works great in all conditions. However, he also has corn burning space heater in the basemement, and wood burning stove in the living room.

 

[rocket_troy]

Yes, Geothermal can avoid the atmospheric temperature constraints.

TP

 

[Zeus-cat]

We have geothermal heating/cooling in our house. When you demand a jump in temperature higher than the heat pump can supply it uses the backup electric heater to help. Gas or electric heat can supply a lot of heat faster than a heat pump, but smart use of the heat pump is cheaper.

 

[deandome]

in most homes that have a basement, that's where the furnace is located. if thats your case, could you splice in a small duct to your workroom? Even 4" flexible dryer vent duct would provide enough heat,

Space heaters, even one, can REALLY affect your electric bill...I suggest looking for a way to draw heat from a gas furnace, or maybe a direct-vent gas heater, though I'm not sure that will work in a basement. I have one in a cabin in my yard, it's great, and much safer than most electric space heaters, as the flames do not breathe or "touch" the air in the room being heated

Otherwise, oil-filled space space heaters are a lot safer than ones that use quartz rod or hot wire-coil types re igniting fumes or debris they come in contact with

 

[Woody's Workshop]

Coming in late here, but I'll through my 2 cents of knowledge in.
My wood shop was 24'x24'x8'. I heated with propane, but the last winter I had it I used 2 of basically the same heaters described in post #1.
I ran them 24/7 because not only are you trying to heat the air, you have to heat all that cast iron in the shop, the plywood on the walls, OSB on the floor, everything withing that confined space. And there was always saw dust and wood shavings lurking about.
One thin nice about them space heaters if the element goes bad, they will draw more amps and kick your breaker. Just make sure they are the only thing on the breaker and it's a 15amp! My shop had a separate breaker for every 110 outlet gang, and wired with 220 20amp load wire. This would cause the breaker to kick long before any wires over heated. And it was all inside conduit to be on the safe side. Expensive? Yes, but I could afford it when I built it.
Another good thing about those space heaters is that if they tip between 30 and 45 degrees they turn off, no mater which direction they tip.
Try tipping the one you have when it's on, I know it will turn off. Unless it's not UL rated out of China, of coarse.

 

[Steve Shannon]

If you don’t want to plug and unplug the unit, put a switch in series with it, but plugging it in and unplugging it will not gradually add resistance to the circuit. Make sure the switch is rated appropriately. Better yet, add a thermostat and switch if the heater doesn’t have one.
If the heater doesn’t keep the area (actually volume) warm, then invest in caulking and insulation.

 

[MetricRocketeer]

If you don’t want to plug and unplug the unit, put a switch in series with it, but plugging it in and unplugging it will not gradually add resistance to the circuit. Make sure the switch is rated appropriately.

Hi TRF colleagues,

I like @Steve Shannon's idea about putting in switch.

I would like to just order the appropriate item from Amazon, but I am not sure what to buy. Could one of you nice people post a link to the appropriate Amazon page and suggest the best and safest switch to buy. Understand, please, I don't want to have to install anything -- I just want to have an on-off switch dangling between the wall socket and the plug from the space heater.

Thank you.

Stanley

 

[Steve Shannon]

And add a 20 A wall switch on one side instead of the spare outlet.

 

[FredA]

Be very careful with "20A" extensions that plug into 15A sockets.

 

[Steve Shannon]

Be very careful with "20A" extensions that plug into 15A sockets.

I’d be much more concerned about a 15 A extension plugged into a 20 A circuit. The extension cord becomes the fuse in that case.

 

[FredA]

I’d be much more concerned about a 15 A extension plugged into a 20 A circuit. The extension cord becomes the fuse in that case.

Yup - that's dangerous too, but you'll usually smell the cord burning as opposed to the Romex in your wall burning if the breaker isn't up to snuff.

 

[Banzai88]

Yup - that's dangerous too, but you'll usually smell the cord burning as opposed to the Romex in your wall burning if the breaker isn't up to snuff.

Or, as recently happened in my FROG that is the bedroom for my twin girls, the $0.78 contractor value pack outlet gets hot and starts to melt and smolder! And that was with just a fan and a television plugged into it.

 

[Kelly]

I would like to just order the appropriate item from Amazon, but I am not sure what to buy.

Just get an extension cord with switch, like
https://www.amazon.com/FILSHU-3-Prong-Extension-Cord，1625w-switch/dp/B08P7SVP5Tor a power strip, like
https://www.amazon.com/GE-Integrated-Protection-Mountable-14833/dp/B00A1N3K6Wjust make sure it's rated for >1500W. If you get the power strip, don't be tempted to plug more things into it - the heater is pulling about the max that your circuit can provide.

 

[Steve Shannon]

Yup - that's dangerous too, but you'll usually smell the cord burning as opposed to the Romex in your wall burning if the breaker isn't up to snuff.

If you match the breaker to the ampacity of the Romex there should never be a problem. If you’re relying on your extension cord to function as a protective element you’re asking for trouble.

 

[Steve Shannon]

Or, as recently happened in my FROG that is the bedroom for my twin girls, the $0.78 contractor value pack outlet gets hot and starts to melt and smolder! And that was with just a fan and a television plugged into it.

What was the rating on the outlet and what was the circuit breaker rating?

 

[boomtube-mk2]

There are a lot of “phantom loads” these days, with so many devices in a standby mode. I’m sure our tv, receiver, cable box, DVD player, computers, printer, etc. draw a bit all the time. But those are all running more than a small indicator light.

And we get bombarded with "Public Service Announcements" about how we should unplug these "Vampire devices" when not in use so as to save electricity.
They never seem to take into account that when unplugged they can also become deprogramed. If I unplug my TV for more than a couple of hours, then I have to go back and reprogram a bunch of stuff or it won't work. Even my microwave oven has a clock that if not programed the oven won't function.

 

[Steve Shannon]

And we get bombarded with "Public Service Announcements" about how we should unplug these "Vampire devices" when not in use so as to save electricity.
They never seem to take into account that when unplugged they can also become deprogramed. If I unplug my TV for more than a couple of hours, then I have to go back and reprogram a bunch of stuff or it won't work. Even my microwave oven has a clock that if not programed the oven won't function.

They’re not talking about your tv and microwave. They’re talking about all the charger wall warts that people leave plugged in even when nothing is being charged. The power used by your tv and microwave is the cost of convenience (or added functionality).

 

[FredA]

Here's my in-wall surprise.
On a 20A circuit.
Here's the 20A GFIC at my bathroom sink - used for hair dryers.

 

[Steve Shannon]

Here's my in-wall surprise.
On a 20A circuit.
Here's the 20A GFIC at my bathroom sink - used for hair dryers.
View attachment 495921

What size Romex?

 

[Banzai88]

What was the rating on the outlet and what was the circuit breaker rating?

15 Amp socket, 10 Amp breaker. BOTH have been replaced

 

[FredA]

What size Romex?

20A circuit wired with 12 gauge.
14 gauge for 15A.

Wanted the electrician to use 12 gauge / 20A circuits everywhere, but they balked at the effort to pull the thicker wire.
Let's just say - I wasn't a fan of the "master" electrician who wired this house. Lazy with a apprentice that was dumb as a post.
I have two 4-ways in the same room, same box. Took them two solids days to figure out what they did once we got to final.

 

[Steve Shannon]

20A circuit wired with 12 gauge.
14 gauge for 15A.

Wanted the electrician to use 12 gauge / 20A circuits everywhere, but they balked at the effort to pull the thicker wire.
Let's just say - I wasn't a fan of the "master" electrician who wired this house. Lazy with a apprentice that was dumb as a post.
I have two 4-ways in the same room, same box. Took them two solids days to figure out what they did once we got to final.

My inspector let me pull 12 ga everywhere as long as I didn’t exceed a 15 amp breaker when I used 15 amp outlets. Pulling 6 ga for the welder was a little bit more difficult.
Obviously, in your case there was a bad connection that caused a local hot spot. That’s exactly why connections must be made in boxes and not covered up behind the wall. That doesn’t mean your Romex was heating though. Nor that you exceeded the rating of the breaker. You just exceeded the current carrying ability of the point of contact where the wire went under the screw head. Still scary though.

 

[DES]

My inspector let me pull 12 ga everywhere as long as I didn’t exceed a 15 amp breaker when I used 15 amp outlets. Pulling 6 ga for the welder was a little bit more difficult.
Obviously, in your case there was a bad connection that caused a local hot spot. That’s exactly why connections must be made in boxes and not covered up behind the wall. That doesn’t mean your Romex was heating though. Nor that you exceeded the rating of the breaker. You just exceeded the current carrying ability of the point of contact where the wire went under the screw head. Still scary though.

NEC allows multiple 15 amp receptacles to be installed on a 20 amp circuit when 12 gauge wire is used. While the outlets are intended for use with 15 amp plugs, the fixture itself is designed to route 20 amps just fine.

Better receptacles will have clamp plates under the screw head. The clamp plate compresses the wire when the screw is tightened. Adds about a buck to the outlet, but easier to wire, and much more secure.

I will also point out that in the photo of the burned GFCI screw, the wire is on the wrong side of the screw; wires should wrap clockwise around the screw, so that the wire is dragged into the screw as it is tightened. When the wire is on the right hand side of the screw, as in the photo, the wire is pushed away from the screw as the screw head is turned to tighten, and you do not get a positive connection. This is most likely the reason the fixture overheated at the screw. (not an issue when the fixture has clamp plates.)

 

[FredA]

Steve -- yes, a clamp plates and proper dress matter.
One of the many reasons I didn't appreciate the apprentice as you know who installed all the outlets and switches in the house.
There have been many surprises including an unconnected wire I found while re-siding that explains why half our Xmas light outlets never worked.

Not the surprise you want in the morning while drying your hair....before coffee....

 

[Philip Tiberius D.]

I would say a person would be dead from inhaling the fumes long before they would ignite from an electric heater or any other open source of combustion.

Probably true

 

[Michael L]

Probably true

I learned a superglue lesson a couple of weeks ago. I was gluing non-rocket "things" together, 20 of them. The "things" had small 3D printed letters that glued into slots. No problem, just put the visor on, get my face close to the part, and glue 10 letters into 20 "things" with 10 slots shaped like the letters with thin CA. About 20m after I was done my airway constricted, not bad enough to go to the ER but enough to notice. The next morning my sinuses felt like someone had wire brushed them and lets just say that there was a lot of fluid. A week later I quickly glued a small part back on a small rocket and I could feel it all starting again. I wasn't that close but I received that message loud and clear. I'll stick with epoxy and wear a respirator of I need to tack something.

 

[MetricRocketeer]

Just get an extension cord with switch, like
https://www.amazon.com/FILSHU-3-Prong-Extension-Cord，1625w-switch/dp/B08P7SVP5Tor a power strip, like
https://www.amazon.com/GE-Integrated-Protection-Mountable-14833/dp/B00A1N3K6Wjust make sure it's rated for >1500W. If you get the power strip, don't be tempted to plug more things into it - the heater is pulling about the max that your circuit can provide.

Hi @Kelly,

Thank you. I like the FILSHU device. I'll order one.

Stanley