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Steward

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What's the best way or material for adding weight to the nose?
I'm finishing up all the loose end on seven new models...planning to fly (show off)... at our club launch next weekend...

I've always used the putty type stuff that that comes with the kits, but somehow don't have enough to go around...
I tried using the small BB's with elmers glue, but after three days it just turned ugly bronze and still han't set... that ain't right...

I guess my question is simple... will regular modelers putty work as well?... I mean isn't that the same stuff that Estes uses?

Thanks guys(and girls)...TRF rocks...!!!
 

SecretSquirrel

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I use modelers clay, washers and BB's, depending on the nose cone.

If you want to use BB's, use epoxy to glue them in.
 

rabidsheeep

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for payload rockets to weigh em down a bit so i dont lose em in a small field i use sand...

for nosecones i use clay...

and i do think led weights were banned, not quite sure though...

what you never want to use is alkaline batteries and wood putty... eats at nosecones :D
 

swimmer

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Steward,

I've always used modelers clay. Rough up the inside of the nosecone and put in the clay backed with epoxy. I've never had it turn loose. I've heard of using BB's and epoxy but not Elmers glue and BB's.
 

Steward

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I really can't tell why I tried elmers... You'd think I would know better...

Modelers clay it is...
 

rbeckey

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I use lead shotshell pellets or in the case of larger rockets, cast lead bullets. The advantage is that I have plenty of them and I know exactly how much the bullets weigh. I use polyurethane glue to glue them in. It has never failed me.
 

powderburner

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I think the NAR outlawed lead as a material for fabricating 'official' payload weights for safety reasons. We should all be following the same lead, and NOT using great gobs of shot, BBs, or other heavy metallic objects fastened into the nose cone.

If any of you guys ever have a mishap where someone on the ground gets 'speared' by your rocket, and their lawyer finds out that you epoxied a bunch of 160-grain flat points into the NC, you are gonna have problems. Understand, it's simply the IMAGE that you present . . .

We should be making every effort to use frangible materials, just like the safety code calls for. Sand, with a retaining bulkhead, works great. Modeling clay works great. Even a material like silicone rubber can be used to fill a plastic NC.
 

moocrew

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silicone caulking....
works great! not to meantion its resilient!
I actaully had a rocket spear someone, last week to be exact.
My chute and ejection charges didn't work so the rocket came straight down...real fast fornatuely i planned for that and had made the nose cone from styrofoam and capped off the tip with silicone. worked great...he (my brother) got a bit of a bruise but no real harm done. and i can still use my cone lol :rolleyes:
 

rabidsheeep

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due to the current state of rocketry with the government im not gonna talk about some nosecone weight experiences.
 

flying_silverad

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In Balsa- I use BB's and Gorilla Glue.
In Plastic- I use BB's and Epoxy.

Uranium....hmmmm
 

Micromeister

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I use #9 Lead shot .080" dia. it's the smallest shot available which means it can pack the tightest in the smallest places, or furthest forward in the cone. Weighting .05g ea it's also very easy to determine exactly how much weight your adding. Great for those little "on the field" adjustments;) encased in epoxy is best, but a little CA will hold those adjustments.

Powder: Unless the NAR has changed something in the last week or so. NO such "outlaw rule" exists. While helping make the 100 official payloads for Naram-35 we opted for sand ONLY because it filled the minimum length of tubing requirement better leaving less to be Plugged with wood blocks which were throwing off the balancing of the lead filled payloads. You can still present whatever 1oz. payload you wish to fly in competitions as long as it meeting the dimensions and weight requirements.
Legally I've had this conversation with a few Lawyer friends on both sides of the issue. My conclusion; Use whatever suits your building situation. If one is speared by a rocket filled with a pound of lead or a pound of feathers, which hurts worse?..sure isn't the preception.. What's the difference..NONE. The nose cone is the part thats doing the damage, not what fills it. Since the "filler" was installed in the nosecone with the intent of making the model Stable in the first place a Mishap is then an Accident without negligence. Clay, BBs, Sand, Nails, screw eyes, washers, foam, feathers, bullets or just epoxy. If your gonna get speared by a model..the MODEL is the thing that hurts. Trying to pin the wrap on the internal components would mean NO more reloadable metal motor casings either.
OBTW; I know it's always on peoples minds but remember we'er over 40 years of flying Model Rocketry without single death and only a handful of mostly minor burn accidents. I know one kid had an eye injury doing something stupid. Even so, after all these years Model Rocketry is still the safest Hobby/sport on earth even with (or in spite of) HPR:D
 

rabidsheeep

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my only input i can have is on any rocket you expect to tumble down sideways like the misquito or twister or something NEVER USE ANY NOSECONE WEIGHT FOR GODS SAKE.
 

astronboy

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I usually drill a shaft into tha balsa cone to place a few fishing sinkers as far forward as possible. The further forward that you get the weight, (no matter what you use), the less weight that you need to use.

Fred
 

Aerobee300

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I was planning on using bb's and Weldbond to weight the hollow plastic nose on my 3D Fat boy .... will the Weldbond do the same thing as Stewards ... Elmers glue ?????

How many bb's to make 1oz. of weight ??? With 3 24mm motors, the heavier motor mount, and the added weight of tri-laminated fins ... I'm guessing I'm gonna need about 3 oz's in the nose.

I've never used any type of epoxy glue ... just white glue like Elmers, super duty white glue like Weldbond , and various types and thicknesses of CA.

Someone shoot me a good name brand, easy to use, epoxy glue recomendation ... please !
 

Stymye

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to me ,those PMC rockets can be a little more dangerous since they can shatter.not very frangeable
 

grimlock3000

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I did not have any BBs around so I used a couple of nickels in the nose cone of my Big Daddy. I dropped in the nickels, rotated them flat, then dropped in some mixed epoxy and let it sit:



I then built a bulkhead on the little balsa supports you see there, which added more weight to the nose. Worked great for me, and only cost 10 cents :p
 

powderburner

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Originally posted by Micromister
You can still present whatever 1oz. payload you wish to fly in competitions as long as it meeting the dimensions and weight requirements.
I thought that at the time (what, back in the 70's?) the NAR position was that solid lead weights would not be accepted any more, and that the 'standard payload' was specifically to be constructed with sand. Was that not correct?

I realize that the optimum ballast installation will use the most dense material available, located at the most forward location available inside the rocket. However, the practical impact of using a slightly less dense material (that moves the ballast c.g. aft by a fraction of an inch) is usually pretty small.

Your lawyer friend may be right, OTOH he may not. There are lots of goofy court decisions these days (blaming gun manufacturers for criminal mis-use of their products makes me wonder why they don't also try to sue Ford or Chevrolet in similar situations?) that go against all common sense. The way I look at it, it just isn't worth taking the chance of being the legal test case and getting sued for everything I own.

I have used lead shot in the past, but don't any more.
 

rbeckey

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If I should get so unlucky as to have one of my rockets core sample a human, I am getting sued no matter what. One ounce of nose weight is one ounce of nose weight. The NC of a Big Daddy, Crayon or V2 is going to hang together on impact with a person no matter what is used for weight. At least I can make an arguement that the nose weight was necessary and that I used the most efficient nose weight available.
 

astronboy

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Bob is right. Like the old joke question: What weighs more, a pound of feathers, or a pound of lead?

A pound is a pound, and the kinetic energy at agiven velocity is the same. Lead will not hurt you anymore than clay will if it is inside a nosecone.

Just look at what the seemingly 'harmless' foam did to the Space Shuttle Columbia.
 

Steward

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I'm not going to apologize for starting such a roaring debate...
because I think we can all learn from such a forum...

I have decided on using the modelers putty and then a small amount of epoxy to help lock it down...

But... I want everybody to know that I've spent entirely too much time trying to figure out how large of a nosecone I would need to hold a pound of feathers...and that's not including any glue...

LOL...!!!
 

moocrew

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lol, sounds like alot of feathers...and one nekkid bird.. :eek:
 

powderburner

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Originally posted by Micromister
Unless the NAR has changed something in the last week or so. NO such "outlaw rule" exists.
While there may not be a written rule any longer, there was at one time. I remember reading about it in somebody's newsletter, although I can't point to it right now. I did find, just the other day, a similar mention of the same NAR decision:

"The early Standard Payload was a small wafer of lead with a diameter of 19.05 millimeters (0.75 inches) weighing no less than 28.35 grams (1.0 ounces). It was selected in 1959 because the smallest available body tube had an internal diameter of 0.75 inch. Later, the dimension and weight were converted into the metric system for international competition.

In 1979, the NAR Contest and Records Committee changed the Standard Payload because they believed that the lead payload could be dangerous (although no accidents had ever occurred with a model rocket carrying this payload). The current NAR Standard Payload is nonmetallic cylinder containing fine sand with a weight no less than 21.0 grams and a diameter of 19.0 millimeters, plus or minus 1.0 millimeter."

Handbook of Model Rocketry, Sixth Edition, 1994, G. Harry Stine, pages 239-240.

(I know I'm getting old, and the memory starts to go, but I didn't just make it up.)
 

Bill

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Originally posted by powderburner
I think the NAR outlawed lead as a material for fabricating 'official' payload weights for safety reasons.

I personally do not see the difference between lead, BBs, coins, washers, nuts or sand for nose weight. Metal is a bit denser, but for the quantities and speeds we are talking about, the effect is essentially the same.

There is one good reason to switch from lead for the official NAR payload: lead is poisonous. If the hands are not thoroughly washed after handling lead, there is a risk of ingesting traces of it. Once sealed in epoxy, lead used as nose weight ceases to pose such a danger, but NAR payloads have to be handled quite a bit in the course of a competition.


Bill
 

JRThro

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Originally posted by Steward
But... I want everybody to know that I've spent entirely too much time trying to figure out how large of a nosecone I would need to hold a pound of feathers...and that's not including any glue...
How big did it turn out to be? And what density did you use for feathers?

EDIT: And yes, I realize that I basically asked the same question in two different ways. ;)
 

phaar

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You should try using derby car weights...they have a sticky side and they are labeled how much weight each one is. That is what I use.
 
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