Question about purchasing Loki motors as a Californian for use out of state

The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

Neutron95

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2010
Messages
177
Reaction score
13
I'm in the very early stages of designing a rocket for the Tripoli staged J record, and the Loki I405 seems to be the perfect motor for my booster. Unfortunately, I live in California, so I can't have the motor sent to me. Fortunately, it looks like I'll have to fly this thing at Black Rock, so I think that I should be able to have the motors sent to someone else, and pick up the motors at the launch site. My main question is if it would be legal for me to take a reload back to California. It would be nice to not need to coordinate a motor transfer everytime I want to make a record attempt, or decide to go to an out of state launch on a relatively short notice.
 

heada

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
3,182
Reaction score
552
Location
Indianapolis, Indiana
Illegal in CA, doesn't matter if it's shipped to you in CA or you pick it up in NV and drive it over the line. Once in CA, it's contraband and the fire marshal is gonna "get ya" ( I have no idea who or what would happen, just know it's illegal or against fire codes or whatever)

Personally I think the CA rules are stupid and they should be just like all the other states but my opinion doesn't matter since I'm not a CA resident.
 

Johnly

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Messages
689
Reaction score
43
What Black Rock launch are you planning on flying your project at?
I might be able to drive the reload to the playa from Oregon for you.
 

Neutron95

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2010
Messages
177
Reaction score
13
Illegal in CA, doesn't matter if it's shipped to you in CA or you pick it up in NV and drive it over the line. Once in CA, it's contraband and the fire marshal is gonna "get ya" ( I have no idea who or what would happen, just know it's illegal or against fire codes or whatever)

Personally I think the CA rules are stupid and they should be just like all the other states but my opinion doesn't matter since I'm not a CA resident.
Thanks for that. I'd seen some people on here mention flying Loki motors at FAR, but I guess I'll just get them in ones and twos, and if I have to scrub a flight I'll just give away or resell the unused motors at the launch. Annoying, but not insurmountable.

What Black Rock launch are you planning on flying your project at?
I might be able to drive the reload to the playa from Oregon for you.
I'm not sure yet. I'm in the very early parts of planning this. I would be surprised if I got a full up 3 stage flight done before the end of next year, and probably later for a fully optimized flight that would need the Loki motor.
 

kyle

Space: mostly nothing, partially stars
Joined
Nov 9, 2013
Messages
289
Reaction score
43
Location
Mid-Hudson Valley
I would take a closer look at the wording of the regulations in question. While Loki motors are not certified for use in California, that doesn't necessarily mean that possession of them is illegal.

There's a guy in my town with a Howitzer in his front yard. Legal to possess, illegal to use.
 

CoyoteNumber2

Original San Diego High Power Rocketry
Joined
Jan 30, 2009
Messages
567
Reaction score
63
but I guess I'll just get them in ones and twos, and if I have to scrub a flight I'll just give away or resell the unused motors at the launch. Annoying, but not insurmountable.
You would not be the first Californian to possess a Loki motor with the intention to use it elsewhere at a future time. Don't stress about it.
 

cerving

Owner, Eggtimer Rocketry
TRF Sponsor
TRF Supporter
Joined
Feb 3, 2012
Messages
3,640
Reaction score
875
If you're really worried about it, have the Loki hardware sent to you in CA (which is totally legal) and have the loads delivered to somebody at the club that you plan to fly it with. You don't really need the load until you fly it anyway.
 

fyrwrxz

latest photo
Joined
Jun 6, 2011
Messages
6,497
Reaction score
42
umm, fifth amendment. Bury it in a field box and drive back in. As long as there is no sniffers, you should be good. You can always explain that’s a tool box for your ‘legal deployment charges’. Dang, it just gets harder every year. Scotty just won’t bend to certCali and I respect that. I only begged one time.
 

Bat-mite

Rocketeer in MD
Joined
Dec 5, 2013
Messages
10,677
Reaction score
1,471
Location
Maryland
Have the reload sent to me. I can't deliver it to you at Black Rock, but I could launch it and dedicate the flight to you.

Well, it never hurts to ask, right? 🤩
 

DaveW6DPS

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 28, 2013
Messages
474
Reaction score
226
Location
Barstow, CA
I'm in the very early stages of designing a rocket for the Tripoli staged J record, and the Loki I405 seems to be the perfect motor for my booster. Unfortunately, I live in California, so I can't have the motor sent to me. Fortunately, it looks like I'll have to fly this thing at Black Rock, so I think that I should be able to have the motors sent to someone else, and pick up the motors at the launch site. My main question is if it would be legal for me to take a reload back to California. It would be nice to not need to coordinate a motor transfer everytime I want to make a record attempt, or decide to go to an out of state launch on a relatively short notice.
If you actually want to follow the applicable California stuff, Loki reloads are not legal for use in California at commercial launches.

Of course, if you don't have CalPyro license you cannot legally purchase, transport, store, or launch ANY high power rocket motor in California. If we are going to kick the California hornet's nest, let's get to it.

license front.jpg


These are the applicable excerpts of the CalFire regulations describing a CalPyro, Rockets Class Three, license:

§981.5. License Scope. (b) Pyrotechnic Operator. A Pyrotechnic Operator's License authorizes and places the responsibility for the handling, supervision and discharge of any fireworks item or pyrotechnic device and establishes that the operator is responsible for the training of his or her assistants in the safe handling, supervision, and discharge of these items and devices, in accordance with the following:

(6) Pyrotechnic Operator--Rockets Third Class may purchase, transport, store, and launch high power rockets. Experimental high power rocket motors may only be imported, exported, and wholesaled by individuals or companies holding valid import, export, or wholesale licenses. Pyrotechnic Operators--Third Class may only purchase high powered rocket motors from licensed wholesalers. Operators licensed under subsection (b) are also required to obtain a local permit from the authority having jurisdiction prior to all launches.
 

heada

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
3,182
Reaction score
552
Location
Indianapolis, Indiana
So EX is not allowed to be used, only imported/exported. Are motors not tested by CA Fire Marshal considered EX? If not, what are they? If they're considered rocket motors without the state testing and you're allowed to launch high power rockets as a pyro-operator class 3, does that mean if you're a pyro-operator class 3 that the state cert is optional?
 

DaveW6DPS

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 28, 2013
Messages
474
Reaction score
226
Location
Barstow, CA
So EX is not allowed to be used, only imported/exported. Are motors not tested by CA Fire Marshal considered EX? If not, what are they? If they're considered rocket motors without the state testing and you're allowed to launch high power rockets as a pyro-operator class 3, does that mean if you're a pyro-operator class 3 that the state cert is optional?
For solid fuel rocket motors, of any size, that are not listed by the OSFM a Second Class CalPyro license is required and whole bunch of additional regulations come into play. First Class CalPyro covers all types rocket activity, including liquid fuel.
 

heada

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
3,182
Reaction score
552
Location
Indianapolis, Indiana
So if you're class 3, you can buy and import, just not use Loki within CA. If you're class 2, you can use Loki within CA even though it isn't certified. If you're class 1, you can knock down low orbit objects.
 

DaveW6DPS

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 28, 2013
Messages
474
Reaction score
226
Location
Barstow, CA
If you are Class Three you may buy motors listed by the Office of the State Fire Marshal. Manufacturing, importing or selling requires as separate class of license.

If you do not have a CalPyro license, if you agree to follow club rules, you may be allowed to purchase and fly listed high power motor as the "assistant" of a licensee.
 
Top