Quest MLAS The Redemption

[stickershock23]

Well first off, A lot of you read my first thread about this new Quest kit.
I was pretty tough on the kit. and after starting that thread I learned a lot about my building skills.

I was going to chalk it up as my fault and that would have been the end of it.
BUT Bill S told me to contact Quest, talk to Nettie and tell them what was up.

I finally decided to do it, they Graciously offered me a new kit and sent it out BEFORE I even accepted!

SO this new thread will be a few things...

First off my apologies to Quest for being so hard on their kit.

Second A HUGE thank you AND QUEST Customer service ROCKS!!! They took care of me faster and better than I ever even imagined.

Lastly a NEW build thread on the replacement kit, with me taking in to consideration all the tips and tricks, brought up in the last thread, and hopefully me building a much better rocket!

I got the kit yesterday in the mail, and have not even opened it yet. but it did arrive fast and packaged very nicely!

Tomorrow is Thanksgiving, so It's gonna take me a few days to get back to this build, but I figured I should start this and give everyone a chance to see that Quest rockets! ROCK!!!

thanks Nettie and Bill. you have surpassed my expectations already! I hope you accept my apologies for the last thread I started.

Mark

 

[MarkII]

It's all good.

MarkII

 

[powderburner]

stickershock,

I might have opened the kit and had the same reaction. While I am one of the biggest supporters of the idea that low-power rockets don't have to be built heck-for-stout, I do expect a certain level of robustness, even for cardboard parts.

Having said that, if the new Quest kit is designed to be built light, I would like to suggest the following observation and technique.

The observation: We all probably build with too much glue. Now I haven't even ever seen one of your builds in person so I am not picking on you personally, but I have seen LOTS of rockets built by others and almost all of them are over-glued. Too much glue gets dumped onto the joints between CRs and BTs. Too much glue gets plastered onto fin roots. Too much water-based glue (white and yellow glues) can soak into the cardboard, make it wrinkle when wet, and make it pull out of shape when the glue dries. If the BT is thin and weak to begin with, too much glue can literally destroy it (like you apparently experienced).

The technique: I would like to suggest that if you already have a good snug fit of cardboard components about all you need to secure those joints is enough thin glue to cover the crack itself. That does not mean enough glue to spread a quarter inch in each direction from the joint, or so much glue that you have to worry how the assembly is sitting while the glue dries so it doesn't all drain to the low side and make a big puddle inside there. I mean white or yellow glue thinned with clean water 1-to-1, applied one or two drops at a time (yes, drops) with a cheapo kid's school-type paintbrush and brushed into the corner of the joint. A drop or two of thinned glue should be enough to wet about an inch of joint perimeter (well, maybe a half inch). It will be applied so thinly that it basically can't run and puddle if you lay the assembly down on its side.

I maintain that for almost all our low-power construction, if you can get the glue to actually penetrate the joint that you can get 90% of the joint strength with 10% of the glue. No, those are not analytical numbers, they are just to make the point that we all (me too, old habits die hard) use way too much glue. I believe that if you can get a little glue into the joint (and watered-down glue will penetrate into amazing places) it is better than layering gobs of glue on top of the joint. I have been building quite a few projects this way for myself, and I have to admit that the structural joints seem just about as strong as doing things the "regular" way. And it is lighter, dries faster, gives cleaner-looking construction, and challenges me to cut parts with better-fitting joints (like they are supposed to fit in the first place).

And you know what they say advice is worth when it's not asked for---

 

[MarkII]

If the adhesives we use are effective, then they don't need to be applied in great amounts. If the concern is that the joint won't be strong enough unless a thick bead of glue is applied, then the builder is using the wrong glue.

MarkII

 

[billspad]

Having said that, if the new Quest kit is designed to be built light, I would like to suggest the following observation and technique.

I was thinking of buying one of these but I've never been good at building light. Is there room to change the motor mount to a 24mm or make it a two or three 18mm cluster?

 

[rstaff3]

I plan to upgrade the motor in my second one but haven't decided what to do. I want a repeatable good flight with my stock model before I fiddle with a cluster or larger mount.

It is 3.5" in diameter, but stubby, so the main thing to worry about for 24mm and 18mm clusters is stability. If you get into 29mm or even use longer 24mm motors, then you start intruding on parachute space, which may require nose cone mods above just weight. Stock, there is about 3" of tube above the top ring, 1" of which is taken my the nose cone shoulder. Of course, the more weight added the more concern there is on damage to the soft/light components. My second one may end up being pretty heavy as I, like you, aren't known for building light.

Ooops, been caught surfing web for...rockets...gotta go help get the turkey and fixin's ready. Happy Thanksgiving!

 

[stickershock23]

Thanks for all the good info, I think My plans are to build basically as the kit says this time. Only I may beef up the fins

I will say this I flew my first one last week on a D21-4 It flew absolutely perfect. My guess is 800 feet, chutes at apogee broke two fins on landing.
The balsa was WAY too light. I may skin them this time.

That flight I added some nose weight to, (some 1/4" nuts threaded onto the lag bolt supplied. until my C/G was about half way between the bottom of the nose cone and the top of the first set of fins. I did a swing test and was happy with the results!

 

[JAL3]

I'd really appreciate a detailed build thread when you get around to it.

This one is high on my list of things I want to build...and get right.

 

[stickershock23]

I will most likely start on monday! you got it!

 

[stickershock23]

I opened up the kit while I was waiting for the turkey to cook.
THe balsa wood on this kit is 3 or 4 time heavier than the bals in the first kit I got. MAJOR improvement already!!! that was one of the two major issues I had.

 

[JRThro]

I opened up the kit while I was waiting for the turkey to cook.
THe balsa wood on this kit is 3 or 4 time heavier than the bals in the first kit I got. MAJOR improvement already!!! that was one of the two major issues I had.

Heavier how? Thicker? Sturdier? More massive?

Or just stronger?

 

[stickershock23]

Ummm Same thickness, much "harder" maybe a bit heavier. all in all way better!

 

[MarkII]

Balsa that has a denser grain, probably.

MarkII

 

[rstaff3]

Glad to hear you are happier with this one. I have a pending write-up on EMRR on mine.

 

[stickershock23]

Well no pictures but I did get some work done on it today. I built the motormount, when I slid it into the body tube is is pretty loose fitting. I don't want the same results as I did last time, does anyone have a suggestion on how to build up so I have a snugger fit?

I was thinking just a wrap or two of tape on the inside of the tube. but I don't know how well glue would stick to masking tape? I guess if I glued right to the edge of the tape, I would actually be gluing to the bodytube.

I also filled in the styrofoam nosecone. I kept it simple. and used some lightweight spackle. really easy to work with on the foam.

I cleaned up the fins, and sanded them to shape. as I said before, this balsa is WAY better than my first kit. so the first one I got must have just been a BOO BOO.. if your kit seems to have way to lightweight of balsa for the fins contact Quest, I am sure they will take care of you as they did me. those guys are awesome!!

 

[shrox]

...contact Quest, I am sure they will take care of you as they did me. those guys are awesome!!

Yes we are.

 

[stickershock23]

So Shrox, I gotta know, Now that you are at Quest will we be seeing more new COOL rocket kits? I love my Shrox shuttle, and Snarky..

 

[shrox]

So Shrox, I gotta know, Now that you are at Quest will we be seeing more new COOL rocket kits? I love my Shrox shuttle, and Snarky..

Yes you will.

 

[stickershock23]

Yes you will.

SWEET that is exactly what we need!

 

[kelltym88]

Playing Devil's advocate here, but we've been "hearing" for what, 2+ yrs. now about all this new stuff. When? When? When?

 

[stickershock23]

Tim.. I thought you were talking to me at first.. I'm like "I announce new stuff way to often, what do you mean? LOL"

DID some more work on the MLAS today. I tried something new, I tool a piece of rinter paper, cut some strips, then glued them inside the body tube to make my motor mount fit tighter. I used minimal glue, I'll know in a few hours how it does when it dries..

 

[shrox]

Playing Devil's advocate here, but we've been "hearing" for what, 2+ yrs. now about all this new stuff. When? When? When?

Umm, the MLAS!

 

[kelltym88]

Tim.. I thought you were talking to me at first.. I'm like "I announce new stuff way to often, what do you mean? LOL"

Sorry, no Mark not meant for you. I forgot to quote Shrox.

Umm, the MLAS!

Shrox, don't try to sidestep the issue...

 

[shrox]

...Shrox, don't try to sidestep the issue...

I am not trying to sidestep anything, in fact I ...hey, isn't that William Shatner over there?

 

[wilsotr]

There's an easy way out of this, Shrox. Just release the Sarah Conner, scaled around a 3" airframe.

Go ahead. You know you want to ......

 

[stickershock23]

I am not trying to sidestep anything, in fact I ...hey, isn't that William Shatner over there?

Shatner? where? oh he's over there by the Shrox display going.. I got to build me one of them cool rockets..



My paper ring on the inside of the body tube worked perfect, its too tight right now, so I am letting it cure overnight so I can sand to fit now..

 

[stickershock23]

Got the motor mount in, NICE AND SNUG, with the tighter fit the body tube did not wrinkle like the last one did. I also added a longer kevlar shock cord, just because.

THE nose cone is smooth, time to paint it. last time I used water based "art paint" and brushed it on, got decent results, but there were plenty of brush strokes. this time I am goingto dig out my airbrush and apply the same stuff.

 

[Initiator001]

THE nose cone is smooth, time to paint it. last time I used water based "art paint" and brushed it on, got decent results, but there were plenty of brush strokes. this time I am goingto dig out my airbrush and apply the same stuff.

I found a Kryon spray paint called "H2O Latex" which states it will work on styrofoam.

It is expensive, is very thin and will run if you are not careful. Also, you will need some sort of primer coat under it. There is an H2O primer but I could not find it. I used some H2O Gray spray paint as a 'primer' then applied the H2O white over that. It took five applications of the white to get a solid looking finish. The H2O DOES dry pretty quick but doesn't sand very well.

 

[stickershock23]

Bob, thanksfor the tip.

I am out in the middle of nowhere I will see if our hardware store has it. if not. airbrush it is..

 

[chanstevens]

Well no pictures but I did get some work done on it today. I built the motormount, when I slid it into the body tube is is pretty loose fitting. I don't want the same results as I did last time, does anyone have a suggestion on how to build up so I have a snugger fit?

I was thinking just a wrap or two of tape on the inside of the tube. but I don't know how well glue would stick to masking tape? I guess if I glued right to the edge of the tape, I would actually be gluing to the bodytube.

I also filled in the styrofoam nosecone. I kept it simple. and used some lightweight spackle. really easy to work with on the foam.

I cleaned up the fins, and sanded them to shape. as I said before, this balsa is WAY better than my first kit. so the first one I got must have just been a BOO BOO.. if your kit seems to have way to lightweight of balsa for the fins contact Quest, I am sure they will take care of you as they did me. those guys are awesome!!

Too late now, but I was wondering if canting the fins a degree or two would help with the stability issue, maybe even allowing it to fly on C's. Sure, the spin would be non-scale, but I think it could help a fair amount.

--Chan Stevens