Quest Aerospace Q-Jets

[shockie]

I was looking at a drawing of the Quest Aerospace Q-Jets and it appeared to me that they may have a clay nozzle? Anybody, that have any of these could you post some pics of the nozzle with a ruler so I can get an idea of what the nozzle looks like? TIA

 

[afadeev]

Here is a picture of my D16, it does look like a clay nozzle:

 

[Zeus-cat]

The color of the clay is slightly different than that of an Estes motor. Also, the Quest clay looks smoother. Like they used a finer grit than Estes. I guess I never realized the Quest nozzle was clay, it looks more like plastic to me.

 

[shockie]

Here is a picture of my D16, it does look like a clay nozzle:

View attachment 442999

It looks like there are 2 little notches in the casing.

Next time you burn one check to see how much nozzle erosion, if any there is.

According to the diagram is appears there is a small lip from the casing, that forms a ring or lip to hold in the nozzle.
If so thats a great idea.
I wonder what kind of chamber pressures these operate at as opposed to the AT EFG....

 

[shockie]

The color of the clay is slightly different than that of an Estes motor. Also, the Quest clay looks smoother. Like they used a finer grit than Estes. I guess I never realized the Quest nozzle was clay, it looks more like plastic to me.

Yes indeed. The Estes clay looks speckled (?) is that even a word? and the Quest looks very fine ......I wonder if there's any graphite in it......
If it is clay of some sort they either press it in place in the engine case as Estes does or they pre-make them and then insert them and maybe glue them to the casing.... Guess I'm going to have to buy me a pack and do some experimenting....

 

[Nytrunner]

I wonder what kind of chamber pressures these operate at as opposed to the AT EFG....

If you are really curious, you could rough it backwards from F=m_dot*v_e+p*a

 

[heada]

It could be ceramic. I think some of the European motors use ceramic nozzles

 

[AeroTech]

They are indeed pressed clay and yes the lip on the inside end of the case is a patent pending feature that helps retain the nozzle. The max operating pressure of the Q-Jets is generally 300-500 PSI. The casings can handle up to about 1,500 PSI.

 

[NOLA_BAR]

Are the new White Lightning Q-jets a new formula? Easier to ignite than the reload formulas?

 

[shockie]

They are indeed pressed clay and yes the lip on the inside end of the case is a patent pending feature that helps retain the nozzle. The max operating pressure of the Q-Jets is generally 300-500 PSI. The casings can handle up to about 1,500 PSI.

That lip deserves a patent. Simple but functional design feature. it's like a reverse thrust ring. Instead of keeping the engine from going up into the airframe, it's designed to keep the nozzle was being blown out by the chamber pressure.

For years I had often thought that Estes should epoxy a small thrust ring in front of their BP engines so they could run at higher chamber pressures and get a little bit of additional Isp, ( and maybe bring out some high thrust BDEF BP motors) because their current pressed clay nozzle only has a mechanical bond to the paper casings, which prevents them from doing that. Molding it into a casing is a masterstroke.

 

[shockie]

If you are really curious, you could rough it backwards from F=m_dot*v_e+p*a

I'm slowly but surely getting there. Lol

 

[AeroTech]

They use Fast White, which is a White Lightning analog of Black Max. Very easy to ignite.

Are the new White Lightning Q-jets a new formula? Easier to ignite than the reload formulas?

 

[AeroTech]

Thanks. It wasn’t our first choice, but the nozzles wouldn’t reliably stay in the case without it. Same with the threaded bulkhead.

That lip deserves a patent. Simple but functional design feature. it's like a reverse thrust ring. Instead of keeping the engine from going up into the airframe, it's designed to keep the nozzle was being blown out by the chamber pressure.

For years I had often thought that Estes should epoxy a small thrust ring in front of their BP engines so they could run at higher chamber pressures and get a little bit of additional Isp, ( and maybe bring out some high thrust BDEF BP motors) because their current pressed clay nozzle only has a mechanical bond to the paper casings, which prevents them from doing that. Molding it into a casing is a masterstroke.

 

[beeblebrox]

Estes nozzles are not all the same, although it may seem coarse, the surface of the nozzle throat is smooth anyway. I guess it depends on what brand kitty litter they used...

These three are all different...

 

[Bruce]

I've never seen Estes E15 or D11 motors that are plugged before.

Where can you buy them?

Does Estes make any other plugged motors?

 

[shockie]

Estes nozzles are not all the same, although it may seem coarse, the surface of the nozzle throat is smooth anyway. I guess it depends on what brand kitty litter they used...

These three are all different...

View attachment 443152View attachment 443151

whats the date codes on those three? I'm used to seeing that speckled clay one.

 

[DaHabes]

I've never seen Estes E15 or D11 motors that are plugged before.

Where can you buy them?

Does Estes make any other plugged motors?

There is a TRF thread from 2013 about D11-P - https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/who-wants-estes-d11-p-motors.59787/
They are OOP today - they are not on the Estes Engine Chart from the latest catalog (attached) and last showed up in the 2010 catalog.

But this vendor seems to have them - https://webstore.eliminator-rc.com/estes-model-rocket-engines-d11-p
As does AMXPro - https://cart.amwprox.com/index.php?...t_id=777&virtuemart_category_id=43&Itemid=470

The E15's don't even have files on Thrustcurve, but there is thrust curve data on Rocket Reviews - https://www.rocketreviews.com/e15-190907114725.html - they are ancient. They were discontinued in the 90's per this post, apparently they CATO'd a lot - https://www.oldrocketforum.com/archive/index.php/t-6032.html

 

[BEC]

whats the date codes on those three? I'm used to seeing that speckled clay one.

The date codes of the D11 and E15 are visible in the image. The D11 is 00 20 11 (November 20, 2000). The D15 is 24 X 9 (September 24, 1993)

 

[afadeev]

I've never seen Estes E15 or D11 motors that are plugged before.
Where can you buy them?
Does Estes make any other plugged motors?

Estes does, but they are not all that popular, and few retailers stock them.
You can always "make" your own plugged motors by adding an epoxy slug to the FWD end of the motor case...

 

[kuririn]

I bought some D11P motors from LP2K a few years ago.
Looks like they still have some in stock:
Launchpad2000: D-11P (3 Engines) Flying Model Rocket - Engines - Estes 1669 (lp2k.com)

 

[shreadvector]

Estes nozzles are not all the same, although it may seem coarse, the surface of the nozzle throat is smooth anyway. I guess it depends on what brand kitty litter they used...

These three are all different...

View attachment 443152View attachment 443151

I see "Poopy Clay".

 

[Nytrunner]

I see "Poopy Clay".

Which one is poopy clay?

 

[shreadvector]

Which one is poopy clay?

D11-P Date code is 00 which is year 2000. When Star Wars Episode 1 came out, Estes went into hyper-production of certain motors for the mass merchandised kits and some other motors were discontinued. ALL motors were made with a horrible new clay that was powdery and white.

The Poopy Clay would erode when the motor fired. The nozzle would get larger (loss of thrust) or it would erode asymmetrically (loss of thrust AND vectored thrust). It could make an Alpha III go unstable with the vectored thrust.
Disaster for heavy models, such as the "Flying Toilet Seat of Death" with a C6-3 with low/vectored thrust or the large Star Destroyer with a D12-3 with low/vectored thrust.

As a result of "reports" of this phenomenon, they switched to the "Strong Like Ox" clay currently used. Weirdest thing with the new current clay (in use for well over ten or fifteen years now) is the rare "pop" of a nozzle and the "Ping" as it hits the deflector. Otherwise the current clay is great.

 

[Nytrunner]

Otherwise the current clay is great.

Copy that. Ive only seen the newer mottled clay

 

[dpower]

The D11 motors carried my AMW were a special order - Boris K.flies a lot of these, and was able to get Estes to make a batch if a vendor would guarantee to take the whole batch. I need to order some, I’m down to my last pack of poopy clay versions.

 

[shockie]

you said poopy clay

 

[Art Upton]

I forgot, what were the D11-Ps supposed to be used in?

 

[n3tjm]

I forgot, what were the D11-Ps supposed to be used in?

Estes had a few Rocket Boosted RC gliders that used them. That was also the reason why the E15-P was made.

 

[Art Upton]

Ah, like the Strato-Blaster in my Garage. I even forgot owning one, Hi HI