propellant colors and effects

[JohnCoker]

Several people have asked about searching for motors by color, so I was thinking of how to categorize the various propellants by color and effect. Please help fill out this table. Also, if you think of a better method of organization, please suggest it.

Manufacturer	Propellant	Color	Effect
AeroTech	Blackjack		smoke
AeroTech	Blue Thunder	blue
AeroTech	Classic
AeroTech	Dark Matter		smoke
AeroTech	Fast Blackjack		smoke
AeroTech	Metalstorm		sparks
AeroTech	Mojave Green	green
AeroTech	Propellant X
AeroTech	Redline	red
AeroTech	Super Thunder
AeroTech	Warp-9
AeroTech	White Lightning
AeroTech	White Thunder
AMW	Black Bear
AMW	Blue Baboon	blue
AMW	Green Gorilla	green
AMW	Red Rhino	red
AMW	Scalded Tiger
AMW	Skidmark		sparks
AMW	Super Tiger
AMW	Tamed Tiger
AMW	White Wolf
AMW	Wild Wolf
Cesaroni	Blue Streak	blue
Cesaroni	C-Star
Cesaroni	C-Star (FAST)
Cesaroni	C-Star (SLOW)
Cesaroni	Classic
Cesaroni	Green3	green
Cesaroni	Imax
Cesaroni	Mellow
Cesaroni	Pink	pink
Cesaroni	Red Lightning	red
Cesaroni	Skidmark		sparks
Cesaroni	Smoky Sam		smoke
Cesaroni	Vmax
Cesaroni	White
Cesaroni	White Thunder
Gorilla	Black Lightning
Gorilla	Blue Typhoon	blue
Gorilla	Green Tornado	green
Gorilla	Red Twister	red
Gorilla	White Cloud
Loki	Loki Blue	blue
Loki	Loki Cocktail
Loki	Loki Ice
Loki	Loki Red	red
Loki	Loki White
Loki	Spitfire		sparks

 

[Ravenex]

It would be helpful if this could be a multiple select so that I could for example compare skidmarks to dark matters to spitfires.

 

[dhbarr]

Some motors have more than one color or effect, so it may be useful to be able to attribute more than one characteristic.

For instance, Loki Ice Blue could show up under both blue and white since it has grains of each, Cocktail similarly. Some of the sparky loads are also smokey loads, etc.

 

[Rex R]

dark matter(dm) black smoke w/ sparks, metal storm(ms) white flame white smoke w/ sparks. black jack(J) & blackmax(FJ) black smoke (no visible flame). didn't know that AT had a 'classic', had thought that was CTI(could be mistaken).
Rex

 

[rcktnut]

A picture is worth a thousand words!

 

[tim cubbedge]

A picture is worth a thousand words!

AT Dark Matter

 

[soopirV]

A picture is worth a thousand words!

Agreed! CTI motors, especially, since they aren't very well documented on their website. Having some consistent photos (like in a test stand) would be ideal, I think!

 

[tbonerocketeer]

dark matter(dm) black smoke w/ sparks, metal storm(ms) white flame white smoke w/ sparks. black jack(J) & blackmax(FJ) black smoke (no visible flame). didn't know that AT had a 'classic', had thought that was CTI(could be mistaken).
Rex

It's a new release of an old propellant. Available currently is a K400 classic DMS motor.

 

[AdAstraPerAspera]

Loki White is white smoke, ice is white smoke and blue flame, cocktail is red and blue flame.

 

[Rex R]

new and 54mm would explain why I hadn't heard of it (of course being new to L2 I haven't really looked at 54mm stuff yet). thanks for the info,
Rex

 

[Oberon]

I'd say you ought to have a "flame color" and "smoke color" column, and maybe even a "smoke amount" column. E.g. both White Lightning and Redline produce white smoke, but WL makes a lot more - a good thing to know. I'd say "Sparks" would go in the "flame color" column since the flame / spark color of most sparkies is pretty similar - it's the color and amount of smoke that differentiates e.g. Metalstorm and Dark Matter.

If you really wanted to get fancy, a general category of "burn rate" would also be helpful (to diffentiate e.g. Black Jack vs. Fast Jack vs. Smokey Sam, which look similar but perform quite differently).

 

[JohnCoker]

All good suggestions, but I'm wondering how much value this all has. It seems to me that if there are only a few motors in a category, it's not worth it. I've attached a CSV file with all the distinct propellant names and the number of motors that use them. Note that this could use some cleanup (consistency of naming).

If someone wants to take a shot at filling the a spreadsheet, I'll see what I can do.

View attachment propellant.txt

 

[dhbarr]

If you pull out the six records marked "composite" I'll see what I can dig up.

Same with "rapid" and "rapid propellant"

There's a "While Lighting" which is probably a typo of "White Lightning"

"Roadrunner propellant" should probably just be "Roadrunner"

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XrNxHsbJIXYpkgHC7XsAkjoZG-hj5FZRKCWOO0CJ3xg/edit?usp=sharing for anybody who wants to help fill in missing values.

 

[Cabernut]

I have a spreadsheet that I've created to analyze the heck out of motor choices to see which ones were really worth the cost.
I've spent months working on it and it's a lot of data, there might be a number here or there that's off but I'd say over 99% accurate(aside from pricing which fluctuates often).

I've included my interpretation of flame & smoke color under the "Color" column. Just take a look and see if it can be useful. Feel free to modify it to fit your needs...

View attachment m_comp3.xls

 

[tfish]

Chris,
Looking at your chart....

Aerotech's DMS motors look to be a good ($ per n/S) bang for your buck...pun intened.

Tony

 

[JohnCoker]

If you pull out the six records marked "composite" I'll see what I can dig up.

Same with "rapid" and "rapid propellant"

The AT motors sold by Estes are labeled "composite". "Rapid" is Roadrunner (and now OOP). I've attached a spreadsheet including manufacturer names.

Yes, there are mistakes and inconsistencies since the propellant is entered manually. If there is a column for "corrected name", I can write a script to update the values in the database.

View attachment propellant.txt

 

[JohnCoker]

I have a spreadsheet that I've created to analyze the heck out of motor choices to see which ones were really worth the cost.

Wow, that is a lot of info. Where did you get prices? I've thought about adding cost to ThrustCurve.org, but don't have a reliable way of getting or updating prices. Also, there's the issue of retail vs actual price.

 

[Cabernut]

Wow, that is a lot of info. Where did you get prices? I've thought about adding cost to ThrustCurve.org, but don't have a reliable way of getting or updating prices. Also, there's the issue of retail vs actual price.

I got prices from wherever I could find them: Apogee($$), buyrocketmotors.com, allrocketengines.ca, etc. Prices seemed to fluctuate quite often and vary a lot from one source to another. Waaay too much to update manually so I considered it once-a-year "ballpark" pricing. I also had another version that calculated $ per N with an amortized case cost factored in, but again, too hard to keep updated manually as case pricing also fluctuates.

 

[woferry]

I got prices from wherever I could find them: Apogee($$), buyrocketmotors.com, allrocketengines.ca, etc. Prices seemed to fluctuate quite often and vary a lot from one source to another. Waaay too much to update manually so I considered it once-a-year "ballpark" pricing. I also had another version that calculated $ per N with an amortized case cost factored in, but again, too hard to keep updated manually as case pricing also fluctuates.

The AeroTech thread just recently mentioned upcoming availability of a spreadsheet that I should include prices (the PDF version had them, so they should be in the Excel 'source' also), so at least for AT it should be a one-shot download from their website (for retail prices, obviously), once the link is provided. See this post.

 

[Nytrunner]

Speaking of Aerotech, how do you order Hi-power motors/cases directly from them?
Their webstore looks like it only has up to Mid-power stuff.
I've seen the "Order Sheet", do they require a phone call or *shudder* fax?......

 

[rcktnut]

Speaking of Aerotech, how do you order Hi-power motors/cases directly from them?
Their webstore looks like it only has up to Mid-power stuff.
I've seen the "Order Sheet", do they require a phone call or *shudder* fax?......

They only sell their Hobbyline motors, the ones that do not require certification to buy. You will find much cheaper prices going thru the vendor of your choice anyway.

 

[Nytrunner]

That makes sense, thanks.
Just to be clear, those LMS motors aren't being produced anymore right?

What about the Single Use Metalworks?

 

[pyrobob]

That makes sense, thanks.
Just to be clear, those LMS motors aren't being produced anymore right?

What about the Single Use Metalworks?

LMS motors are still available as is the 29mm G75 Metalstorm Sparky (which is a Level 1 motor despite being <G80)

 

[Nytrunner]

Hmm, my mistake. I guess the last time I looked at your page and others, they were always Out of Stock.

I see you've got some of the LMS in at the moment