# propellant colors and effects

### Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

#### JohnCoker

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Several people have asked about searching for motors by color, so I was thinking of how to categorize the various propellants by color and effect. Please help fill out this table. Also, if you think of a better method of organization, please suggest it.

 Manufacturer Propellant Color Effect AeroTech Blackjack smoke AeroTech Blue Thunder blue AeroTech Classic AeroTech Dark Matter smoke AeroTech Fast Blackjack smoke AeroTech Metalstorm sparks AeroTech Mojave Green green AeroTech Propellant X AeroTech Redline red AeroTech Super Thunder AeroTech Warp-9 AeroTech White Lightning AeroTech White Thunder AMW Black Bear AMW Blue Baboon blue AMW Green Gorilla green AMW Red Rhino red AMW Scalded Tiger AMW Skidmark sparks AMW Super Tiger AMW Tamed Tiger AMW White Wolf AMW Wild Wolf Cesaroni Blue Streak blue Cesaroni C-Star Cesaroni C-Star (FAST) Cesaroni C-Star (SLOW) Cesaroni Classic Cesaroni Green3 green Cesaroni Imax Cesaroni Mellow Cesaroni Pink pink Cesaroni Red Lightning red Cesaroni Skidmark sparks Cesaroni Smoky Sam smoke Cesaroni Vmax Cesaroni White Cesaroni White Thunder Gorilla Black Lightning Gorilla Blue Typhoon blue Gorilla Green Tornado green Gorilla Red Twister red Gorilla White Cloud Loki Loki Blue blue Loki Loki Cocktail Loki Loki Ice Loki Loki Red red Loki Loki White Loki Spitfire sparks

#### Ravenex

It would be helpful if this could be a multiple select so that I could for example compare skidmarks to dark matters to spitfires.

#### dhbarr

##### Amateur Professional
Some motors have more than one color or effect, so it may be useful to be able to attribute more than one characteristic.

For instance, Loki Ice Blue could show up under both blue and white since it has grains of each, Cocktail similarly. Some of the sparky loads are also smokey loads, etc.

#### Rex R

##### LV2
dark matter(dm) black smoke w/ sparks, metal storm(ms) white flame white smoke w/ sparks. black jack(J) & blackmax(FJ) black smoke (no visible flame). didn't know that AT had a 'classic', had thought that was CTI(could be mistaken).
Rex

#### rcktnut

##### Well-Known Member
A picture is worth a thousand words!

Staff member
TRF Supporter
Global Mod

#### soopirV

##### Well-Known Member
A picture is worth a thousand words!
Agreed! CTI motors, especially, since they aren't very well documented on their website. Having some consistent photos (like in a test stand) would be ideal, I think!

#### tbonerocketeer

TRF Supporter
dark matter(dm) black smoke w/ sparks, metal storm(ms) white flame white smoke w/ sparks. black jack(J) & blackmax(FJ) black smoke (no visible flame). didn't know that AT had a 'classic', had thought that was CTI(could be mistaken).
Rex
It's a new release of an old propellant. Available currently is a K400 classic DMS motor.

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Loki White is white smoke, ice is white smoke and blue flame, cocktail is red and blue flame.

#### Rex R

##### LV2
new and 54mm would explain why I hadn't heard of it (of course being new to L2 I haven't really looked at 54mm stuff yet). thanks for the info,
Rex

#### Oberon

##### Well-Known Member
I'd say you ought to have a "flame color" and "smoke color" column, and maybe even a "smoke amount" column. E.g. both White Lightning and Redline produce white smoke, but WL makes a lot more - a good thing to know. I'd say "Sparks" would go in the "flame color" column since the flame / spark color of most sparkies is pretty similar - it's the color and amount of smoke that differentiates e.g. Metalstorm and Dark Matter.

If you really wanted to get fancy, a general category of "burn rate" would also be helpful (to diffentiate e.g. Black Jack vs. Fast Jack vs. Smokey Sam, which look similar but perform quite differently).

#### JohnCoker

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
All good suggestions, but I'm wondering how much value this all has. It seems to me that if there are only a few motors in a category, it's not worth it. I've attached a CSV file with all the distinct propellant names and the number of motors that use them. Note that this could use some cleanup (consistency of naming).

If someone wants to take a shot at filling the a spreadsheet, I'll see what I can do.

View attachment propellant.txt

#### Cabernut

##### Well-Known Member
I have a spreadsheet that I've created to analyze the heck out of motor choices to see which ones were really worth the cost.
I've spent months working on it and it's a lot of data, there might be a number here or there that's off but I'd say over 99% accurate(aside from pricing which fluctuates often).

I've included my interpretation of flame & smoke color under the "Color" column. Just take a look and see if it can be useful. Feel free to modify it to fit your needs...

View attachment m_comp3.xls

#### tfish

Chris,

Aerotech's DMS motors look to be a good ($per n/S) bang for your buck...pun intened. Tony #### JohnCoker ##### Well-Known Member TRF Supporter If you pull out the six records marked "composite" I'll see what I can dig up. Same with "rapid" and "rapid propellant" The AT motors sold by Estes are labeled "composite". "Rapid" is Roadrunner (and now OOP). I've attached a spreadsheet including manufacturer names. Yes, there are mistakes and inconsistencies since the propellant is entered manually. If there is a column for "corrected name", I can write a script to update the values in the database. View attachment propellant.txt #### JohnCoker ##### Well-Known Member TRF Supporter I have a spreadsheet that I've created to analyze the heck out of motor choices to see which ones were really worth the cost. Wow, that is a lot of info. Where did you get prices? I've thought about adding cost to ThrustCurve.org, but don't have a reliable way of getting or updating prices. Also, there's the issue of retail vs actual price. #### Cabernut ##### Well-Known Member Wow, that is a lot of info. Where did you get prices? I've thought about adding cost to ThrustCurve.org, but don't have a reliable way of getting or updating prices. Also, there's the issue of retail vs actual price. I got prices from wherever I could find them: Apogee($$), buyrocketmotors.com, allrocketengines.ca, etc. Prices seemed to fluctuate quite often and vary a lot from one source to another. Waaay too much to update manually so I considered it once-a-year "ballpark" pricing. I also had another version that calculated per N with an amortized case cost factored in, but again, too hard to keep updated manually as case pricing also fluctuates. #### woferry ##### Well-Known Member I got prices from wherever I could find them: Apogee($$), buyrocketmotors.com, allrocketengines.ca, etc. Prices seemed to fluctuate quite often and vary a lot from one source to another. Waaay too much to update manually so I considered it once-a-year "ballpark" pricing. I also had another version that calculated$ per N with an amortized case cost factored in, but again, too hard to keep updated manually as case pricing also fluctuates.
The AeroTech thread just recently mentioned upcoming availability of a spreadsheet that I should include prices (the PDF version had them, so they should be in the Excel 'source' also), so at least for AT it should be a one-shot download from their website (for retail prices, obviously), once the link is provided. See this post.

#### Nytrunner

##### Pop lugs, not drugs
TRF Supporter
Speaking of Aerotech, how do you order Hi-power motors/cases directly from them?
Their webstore looks like it only has up to Mid-power stuff.
I've seen the "Order Sheet", do they require a phone call or *shudder* fax?......

#### rcktnut

##### Well-Known Member
Speaking of Aerotech, how do you order Hi-power motors/cases directly from them?
Their webstore looks like it only has up to Mid-power stuff.
I've seen the "Order Sheet", do they require a phone call or *shudder* fax?......

They only sell their Hobbyline motors, the ones that do not require certification to buy. You will find much cheaper prices going thru the vendor of your choice anyway.

#### Nytrunner

##### Pop lugs, not drugs
TRF Supporter
That makes sense, thanks.
Just to be clear, those LMS motors aren't being produced anymore right?

What about the Single Use Metalworks?

#### pyrobob

##### Well-Known Member
That makes sense, thanks.
Just to be clear, those LMS motors aren't being produced anymore right?

What about the Single Use Metalworks?
LMS motors are still available as is the 29mm G75 Metalstorm Sparky (which is a Level 1 motor despite being <G80)

#### Nytrunner

##### Pop lugs, not drugs
TRF Supporter
Hmm, my mistake. I guess the last time I looked at your page and others, they were always Out of Stock.

I see you've got some of the LMS in at the moment