Project for next year, "Lucky Charms"

[Const Star]

came up with the idea when i thought about all my bad luck in life. and maybe if i built a rocket with 4 leaf clovers, horse shoes, and lucky 7's all over it, maybe my luck will change. so heres the plan (please give advice or opinions and explain why, im not as technical as most of u guys are)

Body Tube: 4.0 inches wide
: 24 - 48 inches long (to be determined)

Nose cone: 4 inces
: Rounded nose 10 inches long or so

Engine Mount: 29mm to fit in 4 inche body tube

Probable Motor: 7.8 second burning G, or F20-4W

Chute: Possible Dual chute deploy, or 24 inch chute

Fins: A classic style, possibly 3 fin or 4 fin mount that resembles Big Bertha

Paint Job: Black Pearl paint job with hand painted clovers, horse shoes and lucky 7's

 

[rabidsheeep]

id be awesome if you could use clear fins and have "7" decals or something so that the numbers look like their floating

or actually use fins shaped like the number 7

 

[Const Star]

hmmm, i suppose i could paint 7 on the fins. and yeah the 7 floating thing i can do rather easily, called shadowed lettering.

the problem with doing fins in the shape of 7 would be the reverse side would be backwards looking like an r or something.

 

[BlueNinja]

A 7.8 second burning G motor? I doubt you're gonna lift this rocket with that, the closest that comes to mind is a G12. Same with an F20. I'd recommend anywhere from a G61 reload (38/120 case IIRC) to a G80 SU.

Blue

 

[Const Star]

im not familiar with reloads, and this rocket was more of a novelty than anything, rather than serious heights

but hey, always good to have some helpful info

 

[r1dermon]

typically long burning motors are FOR altitude. i'd suggest determining the motor after the final weight is determined. most likely, if its too heavy, a G12 wouldnt lift it in the first place. G80's are nice. hehe. but also remember, if its over like 3lbs, then a G80 wont safely lift it, so in that case i'd go with a HPR motor, and for that, you need a cert.

 

[Const Star]

i dont think the rocket would be very heavy at all. motor would supply most of the actual weight unless the rocket was built extra strong. all honesty, even a E could lift the rocket i plan on building, but i wanted something a bit more special than off the shelf stuff

 

[BlueNinja]

a 48 inch bodytube with a 10 inch nose sounds a lot like my G-Force, which weighs 32oz. It doesn't perform too much on a G64, even an Ellis G35 (I've heard) will underpower it. Sure, some of the parts weigh a lot, but 4" tubing weighs more than Estes stuff. I'll rocksim this for you and see what I get.

 

[Const Star]

sounds good

 

[r1dermon]

yeah, not only that, if you're planning on using a blow molded plastic nose cone, with a 4" diameter, thats going to add significant weight to your rocket. where are yu getting the tubing?

 

[Const Star]

at the moment i dunno, future project

 

[Const Star]

Heres the thing, in january ill be joining the APA (american poolplayers association) for the first time. for the first half of the year ive got somethign planned to keep my rank low til we get to the regionals. after that i start to really play and we have a huge chance at going to vegas. they pay us like over a grand to go to vegas and play the top teams in the country. ill be able to get going into mid powered rocketry finally. and ill probably be revizing my plans. was thinking about going with a 3 inch tube instead, and a good G motor. i would appreciate recomendations for what i should use for what. (purchaseable items and where i can get them)

 

[r1dermon]

3" tubing...now THATS what im talking about.

a lot of companies supply tubing. www.locprecision.com www.publicmissiles.com. how long do you want this rocket? is it going to be solely G motors? or will it be light enough for F and E motors? this will all depend on how heavy the finished product is. but if you're only going to use G motors, you can basically go crazy building the thing. just remember, i think phenolic tubing is recommended to be glassed. i've heard quantum tubing zippers easy, but it has no spirals to fill for the finishing, and LOC's tubing is insanely thick. super strong.

 

[Const Star]

between 24 and 48 inches long. and i really dont know about the weight total of this rocket since im asking for recomendations on material. but i would like a strong rocket to withstand time and force. the motor mount would be 29mm, so i guess other motors with the same diameter can be used as long as the rocket is not that heavy.

 

[Const Star]

any more suggestions? anyone?

 

[r1dermon]

yeah, dont overbuild if you're not planning on getting a cert. time and force all depends. i mean, wrap a carbon tube and that will last forever, but its also way expensive...if you plan on abusing your rockets, then that type of material is for you. but if you plan on flying, and then storing in a safe place, then LOC tubing is more than enough. MORE than enough. its really thick, if you've ever built a LOC rocket thats one of the first things you notice, how strong their tubes are. if you're going with a 29mm MMT, leave your options open, dont restrict the tube to a G length. someday you may want to cert and fly it on bigger motors, or you may just want to fly it on one of those G75's, which is a long case, the 29/180. but its a full G. plus, that case has H reloads, so you can also cert on it.

 

[Const Star]

hmm, well i dont want anythign incredibly expensive obviously. something with good strength will do just fine, and about the certification thing, im not even a member of the nra /nar whatever it is and tripoli either. i also dont know jack about reloads.

 

[r1dermon]

const star. i encourage you to go out and buy a heavy rocket with a 24mm MMT. then order a 24/40 casing and go crazy. the reloads are cheap as dirt. and they give awesome performace. all the way up to an F39 motor. that way you can farmiliarise yourself with an RMS system. its a LOT cheaper to go RMS. plus, its loads more fun. to know that you built the motor that is shocking peoples ears...thats a huge thrill.

 

[Const Star]

that i built the motors.......... please clarify this as my ignorance on the subject is overwhelming

 

[r1dermon]

well, what happens is, you buy a casing with 2 closures. or fittings. whatever you want to call them. the casing is made of aluminum, as are the closures, the casing is just a hollow tube, on each end there are threads where the closures thread into. now, if you were to thread the closures on each end without a reload inside, then it would be hollow. however, when you buy a reload, it comes with a liner, just a tube, like a BT, that fits inside the casing. now, inside that tube goes the propellent grains. these are round pieces of propellent that have been cast together. they either are drilled down the middle to form the core of the motor. so, you put those in the liner, then you put the liner in the motor, then there are washers, a delay grain, o-rings, and such. the reload kit also comes with the nozzle. so basically all you get with the casing is an aluminum tube and two closures. after you assemble the motor, you insert the igniter and you're good to go. now, lb for lb, RMS is a lot cheaper than SU. in fact, i believe the list price of a G75. a FULL G motor, is like 14 bucks. now to compare, the list price of an SU G80, which is NOT a full G motor, is around 20-25. there are a TON of options when it comes to RMS, thats why a ton of people, myself included, firmly believe in it. lol. you should check out aerotechs page for more info.

https://www.skypirate.net/rocketry/faqs_index.htm

thats different than the 24/40, but its still a reloadable casing. 38mm.

also check out https://www.aerotech-rocketry.com/ look on the bar on the left, click on products, then scroll down and click on rocket motors, then click on RMS description. loads of info on the topic.

 

[Const Star]

u make it sound easy, i heard reloadables are hard to do..... being i know nothing about them with no previous hands on experience im skeptical

 

[Const Star]

Originally posted by Const Star
hmm, well i dont want anythign incredibly expensive obviously. something with good strength will do just fine, and about the certification thing, im not even a member of the nra /nar whatever it is and tripoli either. i also dont know jack about reloads.

i dont see a 24/40 reloadbale casings. mostly 29 and up


EDIT: this is all i see at aerotech
RMS-24/40 Motor

D9W-E28T Instructions (862k)
E18W-F24W Instructions (809K)
F12J-F39T Instructions (827k)

 

[r1dermon]

there are, i think, 8 reloads in total for the 24/40 case. its really not hard. instructions are your best friend, but once you do 1 of them, you'll be all set, you'll never have to question again.

www.magnumrockets.com has the whole list. you have to click on aerotech reload kits. not the reloadable hardware.

 

[Const Star]

ok now that confuses me, is the kit the whole case and everything i need that doesnt need replacing? if so then what is it i need to buy for each time i reload the casing. this stuff is whats really confusing me right now

 

[Const Star]

been talking to a few friends of mine about it.

but for this particular project rocket, im thinking i wanna go with a 29mm RMS reloadable

ive still got a long time before i get to tackle this project. im just gathering all the intel i can so i dont go into this half cocked.

so ive got likely body tubes to use from LOCprecision in mind

likely motors
got educated on the motor mount for a reloadable user friendly rocket

so, any ideas for nose cone? (please post links to specific site locations and why u think its best to use)

Fins also....

 

[Const Star]

just saw a nice look alike of the rocket im wanting to do (except the paint job) on LOC/ precision

around 45 inches long, 3 inches in diameter, 29mm motor mount

 

[BlueNinja]

Now that you see something similar, I'd recommend buying it. You don't sound like you have much experience in MPR, so a kit would provide some good experience.

About the reloads: They're really easy. I built a G64, then the next time I loaded a case i didn't need to look at the instructions, had to force myself to so I didn't leave out something.

 

[r1dermon]

that is a sweet rocket. i would also suggest buying that. i'd go with that, pick up a 29/40-120 casing and possibly a 29/180 casing. order up some reloads (all reloads for these cases are hazmat free, so no extra charges) when you purchase a casing, it can theoretically be reloaded infinite times, but obviously it will wear out after time...however, it is basically there for you for a long time. the reload kits come with all the internals, the nozzle, the propellent, the delay grain, the ejection charge...etc...everything you need to load the case that you bought. IMO this would be the best bet for you. the forte fly's really nice on F's, plus, its a kit already, comes with instructions, and after you build that, it'll be much like the rocket you want to build, so you'll have no trouble building it. a 29/40-120 casing goes for around 30-40 bucks. the reloads are like 9-10 bucks each. i think.

 

[Const Star]

yeah i know thanx, ive done alot of research on this stuff so i can do my best not to sound like a tard. but the whole idea of me building my own rocet was for me to actually build it without instructions and already cut peices. but i dunno i have a long time to decide.

and id only be buying a 29mm reloadable casing, not a 24. with a 29 i have more options open

 

[r1dermon]

more options in the way of what? with a 29 you leave open the possiblity for a HPR transition, if you're rocket is heavy enough, built well enough, or you're just crazy enough. lol. the 24/40 is a really nice case though. it's 1 motor class lower than the 29/40-120, where the 29 has a G and the 24 has an F as their biggest. my suggestion, if you're going to go with that 29/40-120 right out of the gate, in the future, the 24/40 is definately a solid investment. its a lot more sensible than SU. and the reloads are even still a lot cheaper than the 29/40-120. 3 pack for the same as 1 reload for the 29mm case.

so are you in-fact going to go with something like the forte? the forte itself? whats the final verdict?