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Problem with GIF drawing attachments

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georgegassaway

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In area 51 I posted a test message:

"Test of problem with GIF drawings"

http://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?p=5012#post5012

I realize now it would probably just be assumed to be a test that the moderators would not read there, or anyone else who might know why, so here it is "officially".

- George Gassaway

------------------------

Testing something that I ran into when replying to the Strap-on boosters thread.

The Gif's I posted got turned into small unreadable images.

Link to original image is here:

http://homepage.mac.com/georgegassaw...ch_Details.GIF

Use a browser that does not automatically reduce the size of images to fit the window, or you will not see the above GIF as clearly as it is at original size, or as much of the quality contrast with the Jpeg below right.

In the attached image below left , I am going to post the exact same file above, which is a GIF file. When I posted that file to the Strap-on Booster thread, the forum software converted it into a Jpeg ad made it much smaller dimensionally, about 1/3. I have already done a message preview and see that yes, this re-post did the same exact thing.

The image at below right, I converted it to a jpeg myself, which uploaded fine, but it loses quality in the conversion from a GIF drawing, Jpegs are usually as bad an idea for GIF drawings as GIF Photos are for photographs.

Anyone have any idea why this happened? Why uploading a GIF would get turned into a Jpeg, and reduced to about 1/3 size dimensionally?

A really ironic dumb thing of this is that the original GIF is 20K, while the Jpeg I was forced to convert to make it upload at the original dimension size, is a 94.5 K file.

I note that the max file size is 19.5K for GIF's but then my computer does not list file size accurately, the Jpeg version on my computer is shown as 164K, but on TRF's attachment manager it is shown as 94.5K, so I suspect my "20K" Gifs were well under 20K. And usually when I have tried to upload an image that is too large, the attachment manager stops me (though I have only run into that when doing Jpegs, then downsized them to fit)

Now, if the answer to this question is that my 20K Gif's were the cause, a hair over, then that really is not a great answer in the long run since being forced to convert a GIF into a Jpeg that is about 475% larger in file size, yet inferior in image quality, makes no sense. Not if there is an option to increase the GIF size similar to the Jpeg size, people are going to be posing tons of Jpegs (photos) over Gif's anyway. But it is silly to force good quality GIF's into inferior quality Jpegs at many times the file size of the GIF.

- George Gassaway
 

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georgegassaway

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bump - Still looking for some reply on why the above happened, and what the fix is.

- George Gassaway
 
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jflis

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I just noticed the same thing, George. I posted a gif of the Avalear and the resultant image was a LOT smaller than the one I selected for uploading...

I have also noticed several other posters posting very small images and I am not sure if that is the size they are posting or if something is re-configuring them on TRF's end.

Troy, Has the forum been set to automatically change image sizes?? If so, can we remove that?
 

Micromeister

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I'd also like to see the .pdf format increased to 99kb or so along with the gifs.
That sure would make more sense to me then the current size setting.
I know all three jpeg, gif and pdf were the same in TRF.01.
 

georgegassaway

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OK, I think I have run across the cause of the problem, but am not sure. I did a test in Area 51, at this link:

http://rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?p=5471#post5471

I suggest opening a window to see the images I posted there as you rea this.

I will note that I purposely tried to upload GIF files over 100K in size, and Attachment manager stopped me, just as it does for Jpegs over 100k. So, this is apparently not a file size issue, that is causing GIF’s to get turned into small sized Jpegs. This also indicates that while attachment manager SAYS no GIF's over 19.5K, that it does accept them well above 20K, maybe the same setting as Jpegs after all?

Of the test files I did upload, see the screenshot attached below.

I was actually able to get a GIF file above 19.5K to upload. Named 00Index.gif, at 43.7K. While a test GIF that was also large in file size, at 50K, was converted to a Jpeg and reduced in screen size (the “2-6 ET-SRB” File).

But why would even a 43.7 K GIF make it, if it was a file size issue?

I wondered if it had to do with pixel size. So, I took the “00Index.gif” file, added “larger” to the name, and added extra area to it to make it exactly the same width and height as the “2-6 ET-SRB” file. Which did not add much to the file size since it is a GIF and I left it as all white space, so the file size only grew from 43.7 to 45.5 K.

I uploaded that, and it got turned into a Jpeg, and reduced in screen size.

So, I am suspecting that this is not really a GIF file size thing. That the problem is a physical pixel size thing. There seems to be some pixel size threshold that triggers this. FWIW, the original “2-6 ET-SRB” file was 1190 x 1495 in size.

Whatever the trigger threshold is, the two GIF drawings in the Strap-On booster thread, where I originally ran into this problem, were 755 x 554, and 575 x 740 in pixel size.

OK, I did one more test after writing the above. The X-1 Decals GIF, at 3.5K, and 220 x 220 pixels, I added another 580 pixels to both dimensions, to make it 800 x 800. But since it is white space and a GIF, the file size only went up to 5K. I uploaded it, and.... it got converted a jpeg at 280 x 280, so FILE size has nothing to do with this, it definitely is pixel size triggering this.

I do not have time to try to work it out more than that, but that is what the cause is, pixel size at some threshold. Hopefully there is some kind of setting lurking in the form software that will allow larger GIFs regarding pixel size.

- George Gassaway

TRF-attachments.jpg
 

jflis

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George, I agree that it is not a file size issue. I figured this out while uploading a gif image earlier.

Check it out...

Start a thread (say in area 51) and go to the attachment management area and click browse. Select a GIF that is, say, 60KB in size (or 20, doesn't matter, that I could see).

Select upload and wait till it is done. ONce done you will see the filename and file size. What I saw was a file size MUCH smaller than what I actually uploaded. It is as though the program did a modification to the file AS it was being uploaded, to a smaller size. I agree that it seems to be either a "number of pixels" thing or a pixel density thing.

Either way, it's frustrating as all git-out...

jim
 

dwmzmm

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I think this website is set up so that your attachments are posted a certain
percent smaller; I've attached a few pics that are like 135 kb and, once downloaded to my message posting, comes out something like 65 kb. I remember the previous TRF site, I couldn't attach any pics bigger than 100 kb, as it would get rejected when downloading.
 

georgegassaway

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Troy, mods, any idea if there is a fix for this?

- George Gassaway
 

dwmzmm

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I know over at Rocketry Planet, several years back, I complained to the owner/administrator about the limit in the size of attachments/pics; he immediately adjusted it so there was no limits to worry about.
 

georgegassaway

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I know over at Rocketry Planet, several years back, I complained to the owner/administrator about the limit in the size of attachments/pics; he immediately adjusted it so there was no limits to worry about.
Take note we are now talking two totally different things. This is not a "please increase the GIF file size" issue.

That is apparently not the cause of the problem of this thread, as now realized.

The apparent cause of this problem is that for some reason, pixel size at some threshold (or total pixel count equal to "area"), is causing GIF's over a certain pixel size (or pixel area) to get converted into a Jpeg, and that Jpeg is reduced in image size.

My messages above, and Jim Flis' document this problem.

Please put "increase the file size" requests into a different thread, as that is confusing the issue here.

Also, BTW, the attachment manager is NOT doing this because of file size. Again, in my tests, I found that if I tried to upload a GIF over 100k, it would stop me, just like it stops Jpegs over 100k.

The screwy thing here is that it is converting GIF files into small (image size) Jpegs, whether the GIF is 45K, or 5K, when that GIF's pixel size/area is large enough to trigger this problem. I was able to upload a 43k GIF that was "small" in pixel size, and it remained as a GIF ,and at its original size., Yet when I uploaded a 5K GIF that as large in pixel area, it triggered this problem and got converted into a Jpeg with reduced image area.

Now, I did not do much file attachment uplaods on the old TRF, so I have no idea if this problem is new, with something not set quite right, or may have existed on the old one but nobody really recognized it or at least bothered to report it to find out if it could get fixed.

- George Gassaway
 

jflis

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George,

this is a new problem as it did not appear in the original TRF. When you imported a file (any file) it came in identical to the original source, so long as it was within the file size limit.

As you've noted, that is not the case here.

I am sure that Troy is aware of this thread and will be addressing it. I would figure (hope?) that he is already looking into it or is busy with other things related to TRF issues and the new start up...

Between the two of us, let's make a point of pinging this thread once or twice a week to keep it active :)

jim
 

brianc

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http://www.vbulletin.com/docs/html/vboptions_group_attachment

Resize Images
If an image is larger than your maximum allowed dimensions or filesize, an attempt to resize it will be tried. This may fail if the image is too large to be successfully processed or if the image type is not supported for resizing. When this option is enabled, you should limit the Attachment Input options above to one, otherwise the uploading of multiple large images by one user could strain your server.
Sounds like that option just needs to be disabled...

Admin CP -> vBulletin Options -> Message Attachment Options -> Resize Images


The pixel maximum dimensions that George and Jim are hitting are defined by:

Admin CP -> Attachments -> Attachment Manager

(subject to the absolute max values in includes/config.php)
 
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WillMarchant

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I increased the attachment size limit to be 400000 bytes. Image sizes have been increased to a maximum of 1300x1000 pixels. Hopefully that should keep most images from being automatically re-sized.
 

Micromeister

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Wow!
Thanks Will: This should allow some better quality photos, drawings and files to be shared.
Thank you a bunch
 

WillMarchant

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Great, hope that help, John. It looks like your PDF upload test worked, eh? I was able to view it...
Best wishes,
Will
 

jflis

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Let's check this out... :)

Much better! Thank you :)

baffle.gif
 
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