Pro Series II going away?

Discussion in 'Mid Power Rocketry (MPR)' started by Sonic, Aug 6, 2019.

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  1. Sep 17, 2019 #211

    Lynn McCall

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    I agree. Since the F15-0 came out, I have been working on ideas for multi-stage. I keep coming back to upscale Farside-X or T-Bird. Maybe multi engine 1st stage.

    I remember when I first saw them, I bought some. I knew I had to try something with them.
     
  2. Sep 17, 2019 #212

    Charles_McG

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    I saw them and built an upscale Vigilante. E16-E16 works a little better than Fs. Keeping the weight down enough is hard. Something like an F30-0 would be awesome
     
  3. Sep 19, 2019 #213

    ThirstyBarbarian

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    Aren’t the F15-0 booster motors out of production now? E16-0 boosters are still around, but I haven’t seen F15-0s in a long time. I like staging E16-0 to E16-6 in my Ascender with the PSII booster. It stages low enough to easily see the staging event, and the flights are slow and majestic.
     
  4. Sep 19, 2019 #214

    neil_w

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    Is that true? I haven't seen any indication of that from the online vendors. I know HL stopped carrying them a while back (bummer) but it *looks* like they're still around.

    I'm not sure they're the best booster motors given that they're heavy and fairly low thrust, but they sure work nice in saucers with a 3.5 second burn....
     
  5. Sep 19, 2019 #215

    Scott_650

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    Both the E and F booster motors are in stock at AC Supply and available for purchase on Estes website so for now they seem to be readily available. I’ve never used one under any of my 29mm motor rockets but I’d like too ;)
     
  6. Sep 19, 2019 #216

    swatkat

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    Cherokee-J?
     
  7. Sep 19, 2019 #217

    ThirstyBarbarian

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    If the F15-0 motor is still in stock at various vendors, then it’s probably still in production, and I apologize for spreading unfounded rumors.

    Also, no bashing states, especially California! We have the best plywood! It is completely edible — it’s 100% organic, vegan, non-GMO, grass-fed, free-range, and gluten free! Come to California, taste our plywood, and you will understand!
     
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  8. Sep 19, 2019 #218

    dander

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    I hope that everything used to manufacture this plywood is fair trade.
     
  9. Sep 19, 2019 #219

    jlabrasca

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    So from another thread, here is an instance of the comment about plywood in CA.

    Is this the rule that is (was -- that thread was from before the new owners took over) keeping Estes from using plywood fins?

    https://www.epa.gov/formaldehyde/formaldehyde-emission-standards-composite-wood-products
     
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  10. Sep 19, 2019 #220

    ThirstyBarbarian

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    I have no idea what the issue is with Estes and plywood and the state law. But that rule you linked to is an EPA rule, so that would be a federal rule, not a California rule.

    I was making a joke about earlier comments in this thread about California having rules to make plywood edible. I’m pretty sure any state rules affecting plywood are not about making it safe to eat and are based on concerns about outgassing or other health risks. Whatever the rule is, other rocketry companies seem to have figured out how to comply with it, because I have no problem buying kits with plywood parts from other manufacturers. And I have no problem buying plywood here. So I don’t know why Estes is unable to comply or what the comment from JumpJet was about. I do know that Estes shipped me a Sahara kit with plywood parts in it about a year ago. Maybe his earlier comment is no longer an issue.
     
  11. Sep 19, 2019 #221

    jlabrasca

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    Yes. I understood that you were making a joke. The comments about plywood having to be safe for human consumption in CA, to which your joke was a reply, seem to proceed from John Boren's comments regarding the use of plywood fins in Estes kits.

    As for whether California is blameworthy (or, rather, praiseworthy) in this connection, the EPA regulation was written after the CARB regulation and (quoting the linked page with emphasis added)

     
  12. Sep 20, 2019 #222

    K'Tesh

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    I wonder if part of the edible plywood problem stems from people making toys for young children (say large piece wooden puzzles) that a child may place in their mouth?
     
  13. Sep 20, 2019 #223

    jlabrasca

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    I am pretty sure that John Boren's comment, along with all of its echoes, was meant as hyperbole.

    I am genuinely curious, though, if it was the formaldehyde regulation that prompted Estes to stop using plywood parts and, if so, if this is still a constraint. The regulation does not prevent the importation of plywood. It only requires that the manufacturer is certified as compliant with the standards.
     
  14. Sep 20, 2019 #224

    John Taylor

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    The Star Orbiter is a nice rocket AFTER you make 1/8th inch plywood fins, and replace all the recovery components.
    I made one for my wife
    (she helped a little) . She named it Buttercup. 20190910_110335.jpeg
     
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  15. Sep 20, 2019 #225

    Initiator001

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    The plywood Estes wants to use is made in the People's Republic of China where it has been found there are very high levels of formaldehyde in the material.

    This also affected a major home improvement store chain.

    PRC wood/drywall material is not safe to be around.
    This caused the creation of the regulation. If Estes used Made in USA plywood there would not be this issue.
     
  16. Sep 20, 2019 #226

    Nytrunner

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    And things would cost more
     
  17. Sep 20, 2019 #227

    neil_w

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    I suspect another part of the problem is that since the kits are packaged in China, it really pays to have all the parts come from China.
     
  18. Sep 20, 2019 #228

    jlabrasca

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    Google says that there are CARB certified plywood suppliers in China.
     
  19. Sep 21, 2019 #229

    beeblebrox

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    Yea, but I am tired of buying cheap Chinese crap only to have it fail. Sure you could think you are saving money but when you look at the longevity of that low grade crap (Any product not just plywood) So you buy something that cost $3 from china, it fails, you buy another one in six months, and again and again. Whereas if you bought a quality made in USA product for $20 and it lasts 30 years...Just Saying... Maybe if everyone would just stop thinking about the short term, buy American, sales would go up which would reduce prices, everybody wins!
     
  20. Sep 21, 2019 #230

    Ez2cDave

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    Amen . . . On so many levels !

    Dave F.
     
  21. Sep 21, 2019 #231

    beeblebrox

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    Made in U.S.A. 1931... 88 Years old, still works doesn't leak!
    My friends mom always used to say: "Why does it always have to do with fire?"
    lantern.jpg
     
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  22. Sep 21, 2019 #232

    Alan15578

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    Maybe, ir you say so. To my eye, that photo looks like a modern replica, possibly manufactured in China. ;)
     
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  23. Sep 21, 2019 #233

    Ez2cDave

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    Question . . . Did Styrofoam exist in 1931 ? ( packing materials under lamp )

    Dave F.
     
  24. Sep 22, 2019 #234

    Wallace

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    Totally in agreement, But...It's become increasingly difficult to source U.S. made products at any price. We seem to have left most of the manufacturing/recycling of "dirty" products to other countries as though we don't all live in a closed environment. Reminds me of a book I've read on dirty bomb testing sites that were simply barbed wire fenced off and left in situ. That is until someone did a study on how much earth an earthworm can move in a day and how many of said are eaten and re-deposited elsewhere by birds...And that's only one minor example.
     
  25. Sep 23, 2019 #235

    Nytrunner

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    I'll elaborate on my "more expensive" post. Sure there are economic benefits to going wholly domestic.....but only if they sell.

    The hobby complained when the original PSIIs sold for the 'cheap' price of 60$ using bulk inexpensive foreign components. If the same kits were produced locally in estes volume and needs, they'll probably cost more than the original price, and be even more restricted to those of us that are crazy enough about rockets to justify the cost 'because rockets'
     

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