private launches

[Lt72884]

I am a lvl 2 certified, and had someone ask me the other day who wants to get involved with rockets if "once you are level 1, can you launch your level 1 rocket privately and not with a club?"
i had no idea how to answer that so i started to look into it, and according to the NFPA code 1127 universities and private groups are exempt.. I have not told the person anything because im still unsure

“NFPA 1127,” NFPA 1127: Code for High Power Rocketry. [Online]. Available: https://www.nfpa.org/codes-and-standards/all-codes-and-standards/list-of-code s-and-standards/detail?code=1127.
Thanks for the help. I just have always worked with the clubs.

specifically code 1.3.3

 

[tsmith1315]

You can launch solo as a club member.

You’ll need an FAA waiver for the location if you’re flying HPR.
Get a landowner permission form signed and sent to club headquarters.
With those done, follow all club safety rules, and your launch will be covered.

Look at the TRA and/or NAR sites for forms and details.

 

[Lt72884]

You can launch solo as a club member.

You’ll need an FAA waiver for the location if you’re flying HPR.
Get a landowner permission form signed and sent to club headquarters.
With those done, follow all club safety rules, and your launch will be covered.

Look at the TRA and/or NAR sites for forms and details.

interesting, and since he will have to certify to be a level 1 through one of the 2 agencies, he will be able to do solo flights if he gets all the stuff filled out correctly. Thats really good to know.
i still prefer launching with my club in case something goes wrong, i have about 20 people who can help me out haha, plus Kip is on my team and he is the one that certified us haha. he just hit 293,000 feet... damn

 

[tsmith1315]

interesting, and since he will have to certify to be a level 1 through one of the 2 agencies, he will be able to do solo flights if he gets all the stuff filled out correctly. Thats really good to know.

Yes. Just follow all the rules.

i still prefer launching with my club in case something goes wrong

Model rockets are okay solo, and I've had a waiver to fly here. But I like flying HPR with others, it's more fun.

 

[Steve Shannon]

Not all L1 motor/rocket combinations require a waiver. High power is an NFPA designation. The designation by FAA is Class 1, Class 2, and Class 3. Some L1 rockets are Class 1 and do not require a waiver.

 

[mtnmanak]

This question gets asked from time to time and, for good reason, the answers on this forum will be couched in the assumption you want to be covered by either TRA or NAR insurance.

In that sense, Steve's answer above is the only answer you need.

Remember the NFPA and the FAA govern two different things (well, to be correct, the NFPA doesn't actually govern anything - it is a private org with no authority, it only writes recommended policy and then various levels of government can choose to adopt those policies as regs.) You can think of it as the NFPA policies regulate what happens on the ground and the FAA regulates what happens in the air. It isn't quite that clean of a division and some of the overlap can be very confusing.

The FAA has no requirement for you to be certified in anything or be a member of a club. If you put the question of obtaining/making motors to the side (in other words, how you make/buy a motor is on you to figure out within NFPA policies if they have been adopted in your area), then the FAA has a set of procedures, policies and a system for you to register your own flights and obtain waivers.

The point I am making is that a TRA/NRA club takes care of all that mess of government crap for you so that you can fly all Class 1 and Class 2 flights at a club with nothing more than a membership and appropriate cert. Each Class 3 flight requires a separate FAA waiver in addition to the standing club waivers, but even there you benefit from TRA membership since TRA provides a mechanism to help you through the Class 3 waiver process.

If you are thinking of heading down a path of creating a private (non-TRA/NAR certified) launch, then you have to deal with parsing though all the federal and local laws, regs and policies in the area you want to launch. Having said that, there is nothing stopping you from doing that. There are other forums that cater to amateur rocketry that may serve you better on this topic, though.

 

[TheTank]

I have my own waiver filed on my field so that I can fly HP occasionally when i am flying low and mid power stuff when my kids want to fly but dont want to spend all day at a club launch. When I reached out to NAR, I was told as long as I followed all the rules (Waiver in place, safety distances, etc) I was covered (that my NAR insurance would apply) and I didn't have to register as a "club" on that location.

That said, while flying with my kids is always fun or the occasional launch with buddies is as well, club launches and the camaraderie that comes with them is one of the best parts.

 

[Glasspack]

LT

Remember Class 1 models only require the space to fly........ Class 2 models require FAA approval.
I have launched my Class 2 Model privately with friends, at a 40+ acre property about 13 miles from home.
(Thank you so much Steve Shannon for the help !!)

Still have to follow rules and acquire FAA Authorization ....Just plan it in advance. Submit the paperwork (Digitally)
early enough to get it taken care of. I called 'em from the field in the morning to open the waiver and closed it
when the weather turned to snow and clouds and had to stop. Granted it was a few years ago .........

 

[Lt72884]

LT

Remember Class 1 models only require the space to fly........ Class 2 models require FAA approval.
I have launched my Class 2 Model privately with friends, at a 40+ acre property about 13 miles from home.
(Thank you so much Steve Shannon for the help !!)

Still have to follow rules and acquire FAA Authorization ....Just plan it in advance. Submit the paperwork (Digitally)
early enough to get it taken care of. I called 'em from the field in the morning to open the waiver and closed it
when the weather turned to snow and clouds and had to stop. Granted it was a few years ago .........

Thats where i got confused. On the FAA site they say a class 2 is 40,000 n-s or less, but then that would include all your level 1 motors AND small Estes motors as well.

"Class 2 - a high power rocket, other than a model rocket, that is propelled by a motor or motors having a combined total impulse of 40,960 Newton-seconds (9,208 pound-seconds) or less."

"Class 1 - a model rocket that uses no more than 125 grams (4.4 ounces) of propellant; uses a slow-burning propellant; is made of paper, wood, or breakable plastic; contains no substantial metal parts; and weighs no more than 1,500 grams (53 ounces) including the propellant."

So even a level 1 is considered a class 2 rocket, and at that point, thats when we need the FAA waiver and approval correct?
This is all new to me too, so i am learning alot haha

thanks

 

[Lt72884]

how do i get NAR insurance? is that part of my membership through them?

 

[tsmith1315]

Class 1- “a model rocket…”

Class 2 - “… other than a model rocket…”

This verbiage excludes Class 1 rockets from those Class 2 qualifications.

Class 1 includes many H-motors, (with propellant mass below 125g) and the rocket must be under 1500g, including motor.

It is confusing, because their lines aren’t drawn in exactly the same place as NAR & TRA.


And yes, NAR membership includes insurance.

https://www.nar.org/safety-information/insurance-questions/

#17 addresses flying solo as opposed to flying with a section.

 

[WillMarchant]

how do i get NAR insurance? is that part of my membership through them?

Yes, it is part of your NAR membership. https://www.nar.org/safety-information/insurance-questions/ has lots of info.

 

[Handeman]

Thats where i got confused. On the FAA site they say a class 2 is 40,000 n-s or less, but then that would include all your level 1 motors AND small Estes motors as well.

"Class 2 - a high power rocket, other than a model rocket, that is propelled by a motor or motors having a combined total impulse of 40,960 Newton-seconds (9,208 pound-seconds) or less."

"Class 1 - a model rocket that uses no more than 125 grams (4.4 ounces) of propellant; uses a slow-burning propellant; is made of paper, wood, or breakable plastic; contains no substantial metal parts; and weighs no more than 1,500 grams (53 ounces) including the propellant."

So even a level 1 is considered a class 2 rocket, and at that point, thats when we need the FAA waiver and approval correct?
This is all new to me too, so i am learning alot haha

thanks

No, a Class 1 rocket is a Class 1, not a Class 2. They do not overlap. The FAA doesn't want to be bothered with Class 1 rockets.

The old FAA rules were Model rockets were under 1 lb. Large Model rockets were between 1 Lbs. and 1500g and required a FAA notification when you flew. When they redid the rules, they combined Model and Large Model and called them Class 1 rockets. No notification is required to fly them because they had no/minimal issues with Large Model rockets previously and they felt it was a waste of their limited time and resources to do notifications, or anything with Class 1 rockets. Only the Class 2 rockets which are over 1500 g, OR more then 125g of propellant require a Certificate of Authorization (COA) or wavier as it used to be called.

 

[jmasterj]

He's getting confused by the difference between certification levels and the FAA's classes (not unreasonable since they don't match up that well).

Many/most high power flights fall into FAA Class 2 and require a waiver. You quoted the Class 1 limits that will let you figure out what you can fly without the waiver.

 

[WillMarchant]

He's getting confused by the difference between certification levels and the FAA's classes (not unreasonable since they don't match up that well).

Many/most high power flights fall into FAA Class 2 and require a waiver. You quoted the Class 1 limits that will let you figure out what you can fly without the waiver.

Maybe this https://soarrocketry.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/HPR_metric9c.pdf will help?

 

[astronwolf]

I am a lvl 2 certified, and had someone ask me the other day who wants to get involved with rockets if "once you are level 1, can you launch your level 1 rocket privately and not with a club?"

Can you clarify what you mean by "a club?" You don't need to belong to "a club," as in a local rocket club, to fly HPR. But it my opinion you should be a member of one of the national organizations.

 

[Lt72884]

Can you clarify what you mean by "a club?" You don't need to belong to "a club," as in a local rocket club, to fly HPR. But it my opinion you should be a member of one of the national organizations.

club as in a local club They will either get their level 1 via tripoli or NAR, but wanted to know if they could launch without a local club and how to do that. If they have thier own property or know a person with property etc

 

[Titan II]

club as in a local club They will either get their level 1 via tripoli or NAR, but wanted to know if they could launch without a local club and how to do that. If they have thier own property or know a person with property etc

1. Yes
2. How to do it is on the NAR website.

 

[astronwolf]

club as in a local club They will either get their level 1 via tripoli or NAR, but wanted to know if they could launch without a local club and how to do that. If they have thier own property or know a person with property etc

Yes. What Titan II said...

 

[86mustang408w]

You can launch solo as a club member.

You’ll need an FAA waiver for the location if you’re flying HPR.
Get a landowner permission form signed and sent to club headquarters.
With those done, follow all club safety rules, and your launch will be covered.

Look at the TRA and/or NAR sites for forms and details.

Older post but if you dont go over a certain altitude do you still need the wavier to launch high power on your own?

 

[Scott_650]

Older post but if you dont go over a certain altitude do you still need the wavier to launch high power on your own?

Altitude, to a point, is immaterial - it’s whether you’re flying, by the FAA’s definition, a Class 1 or Class 2 rocket.

https://www.nar.org/high-power-rocketry-info/understanding-faa-regulations/

 

[86mustang408w]

Altitude, to a point, is immaterial - it’s whether you’re flying, by the FAA’s definition, a Class 1 or Class 2 rocket.

https://www.nar.org/high-power-rocketry-info/understanding-faa-regulations/

10-4.

 

[UVU_Team_Rocket]

Older post but if you dont go over a certain altitude do you still need the wavier to launch high power on your own?

i learned that altitude is not the issue, its the mass of the rocket. 1500g and below is like a small bird strike.

 

[86mustang408w]

i learned that altitude is not the issue, its the mass of the rocket. 1500g and below is like a small bird strike.

I asked a L3 friend the answer is DO need a permit to launch by myself. Also with a HPR the 1500' radious from the pad is an issue for many. But I agree as well with you as well I've always thought even a smaller rocket could take out a plane. Thank you.