# Poll - NAR, TRA, or other National Organization Poll (e.g. CN, UK, AU, etc.)

## NAR, TRA, or other National, Model Rocketry, Organization

• ### Both NAR & TRA

Results are only viewable after voting.

#### AKPilot

##### Well-Known Member
Let me try this again, without accidentally deleting it . . .

I'd like to see if TRF members belong to any nationally organized, model rocketry, organization.

If you are not a member, there's no harm or foul, but do post as to why you're not.

Thanks

#### sunward

TRF Supporter
You need to add more choices to the poll.

I am a member of NAR, TRA, CAR, and MAAC. In terms of national organizations.

#### MysticalRockets

##### Well-Known Member
You need to add more choices to the poll.

I am a member of NAR, TRA, CAR, and MAAC. In terms of national organizations.
Bloody Canadians can't make up their minds...

:neener:

#### AKPilot

##### Well-Known Member
You need to add more choices to the poll.

I am a member of NAR, TRA, CAR, and MAAC. In terms of national organizations.

That's intentional Angelo.

#### WiK

I am a member of NAR, TRA, CAR, and MAAC. In terms of national organizations.
I'm curious, why so many organisations?

Phil

#### dr wogz

##### Fly caster
Narrative as to why:

(Sorry if this comes a cross as crass , nasty or just opinionated & mean.. But it is my experience & observation. Angelo & Fred, you might be able to change my mind..)

Cost. And driving times.

At the time I was keen to get my L1, I was to join CAR (membership for L1), MAAC (for flight insurance) and the local club.
(CAR apparently lost their insurance capability at the time, so you needed it from a 3rd source. Also, at that time, CAR was apprently a little unorganized & needed sortign out)

I joined CAR as it was relatively cheap; $35 or there abouts. I fly R/C, so I already had my MAAC insurance (about$70)
And club dues were somewhere in that range too.
(Dues at my R/C field are about $70, which were already paid) And it seems there is a standard &#8220;launch fee&#8221; at launches; about$5 - $15 per day / event NAR seems to be &#8220;USA only".. So, no real point.. I got my membership card from CAR, and nothing else. No replies to e-mails, no news letters or anything. No help of any kind to get info & get &#8216;L1&#8217; certified. The local Quebec club has since disbanded, and is now a Tripoli club; Tripoli Quebec. (So, no really need for CAR or MAAC anymore) And the club seems to have a small membership. (Toss in the language issue that&#8217;s ever present here in &#8220;small town&#8221; Quebec..) Their launch site is about an hour, hour & half outside Montreal. I can drive the same distance to ORG in Ottawa. Ceilings in Canada seem limited to about 3000ft and limited to &#8216;L1&#8217; power, with one or two events with higher limits. (From a hobby point of view; why then the need for L1 or above?) So,$70 + launch fees to drive 3 hrs (round trip) to launch half a dozen, maybe a dozen times a year.. And with one may be two major events within a day's drive.. And only if the weather is right!!
Just doesn&#8217;t seem right, for something I can do (somewhat) for free..

I can drive 20 minutes to my R/C field (as I do just about every week-end) to do LPR & MPR. And if it&#8217;s too windy to launch rockets, I can fly my planes, or just hang out with a bunch of like-minded people. I always get asked if I bought my rockets when I show up! And I&#8217;m always encouraged to &#8220;pop-off&#8221; a few! Someone always seem willing to walk to do the retrieving!!

Last edited:

#### reduc

##### Well-Known Member
I would like to reply to Paul's comments, as I launch with Tripoli Quebec.

The ceilings limits mentionned are incorrect. The information is available on the prefecture's website (www.tripoli-quebec.org). There is about 4 launches a year. If you go to the website, you'll see it's bilingual, there is no language issue.

You can pm me if you wish to have more details about Tripoli Quebec.

As for me, I do the drive from Quebec City two times a year with my son. They're very friendly, and I like it lot. I meet there very fine people who share the same hobby as me. The social aspect is important for me. Enough to pay the dues and the driving.

Regards,

Remi

#### AKPilot

##### Well-Known Member
. . . there is no language issue.

So what's the meaning of "eh" and "aboot" mean then?

#### reduc

##### Well-Known Member
I'm sorry akpilot, but I'm not sure that I understand your reply.:confused2:

I know that my post shows that english isn't my native language. Many subtles things, especially the humourous ones escape me.

The "language issue" Paul's was refering to, is the Quebec difference. In Canada, english is the langage of the majority. In Quebec, a province of Canada, french is the langage of the majority. Sometimes, it's an issue, but I don't wan't to disscuss it, as it's a political thing, very far from rocketry.

I just wanted to tell Paul that at a Tripoli Quebec launch, both languages (french and english) are used.

Regards,

Remi.

#### MKP

There really is no benefit for me. The nearest club is more then a 100 miles away. $60 is awfully expensive for a magazine. #### evil ed ##### Well-Known Member So what's the meaning of "eh" and "aboot" mean then? You put aboot on thefoot.....:neener: #### andytherocketeer ##### Well-Known Member it won't let me check 2 options at once for a truthful answer #### sunward ##### At Mad Rocket Basement TRF Supporter I'm curious, why so many organisations?. As a vendor, it is helpful to join the organizations as it give you important information. Other reasons have been discussed .... Also, at that time, CAR was apprently a little unorganized & needed sortign out)... snip I got my membership card from CAR, and nothing else. No replies to e-mails, no news letters or anything. No help of any kind to get info & get &#8216;L1&#8217; certified.... Times have changed since I became Chairman of CAR in February. Yes there is a lot of work to be done, but the executive has been more responsive and has done and will do a lot of work. Insurance is a problem for everyone. But CAR will become a strong voice for rocketeers in Canada. A reason to join. As for email, there has been problems with email delivery through the web site. If it is an emergency, you can use my executive email CAR Chairman or call me directly at 416-953-1847 A membership summary was just posted 2 days ago to the front page of CAR: CARWeb - Canadian Rocketry Association detailing the work that has been done and work to be done. More reports and more details coming soon. .... The local Quebec club has since disbanded, and is now a Tripoli club; Tripoli Quebec. (So, no really need for CAR or MAAC anymore) ).... I will contact them and let them know about the new CAR. .... Their launch site is about an hour, hour & half outside Montreal. I can drive the same distance to ORG in Ottawa. Ceilings in Canada seem limited to about 3000ft and limited to &#8216;L1&#8217; power, with one or two events with higher limits. (From a hobby point of view; why then the need for L1 or above?).... There are many launches in Canada that have a higher ceiling. In fact Roc lake has a 25,000 ceiling and you can ask for a higher ceiling if you give enough notice. Last edited: #### MysticalRockets ##### Well-Known Member I'm sorry akpilot, but I'm not sure that I understand your reply.:confused2: I know that my post shows that english isn't my native language. Many subtles things, especially the humourous ones escape me. The "language issue" Paul's was refering to, is the Quebec difference. In Canada, english is the langage of the majority. In Quebec, a province of Canada, french is the langage of the majority. Sometimes, it's an issue, but I don't wan't to disscuss it, as it's a political thing, very far from rocketry. I just wanted to tell Paul that at a Tripoli Quebec launch, both languages (french and english) are used. Regards, Remi. IIRC, isn't it that to sell anything, or to post any kind of sign and such in Quebec, the french language must not only be present, but larger? I seem to remember reading that somewhere... #### reduc ##### Well-Known Member IIRC, isn't it that to sell anything, or to post any kind of sign and such in Quebec, the french language must not only be present, but larger? I seem to remember reading that somewhere... The law is pretty complicated, but, yes, commercial signage must be predominently in french. Remi. #### dr wogz ##### Fly caster I feel I have to defind my post.. Yes, it's opiniated, and not very positive. But this is from my point of view, and from the support & replies I've recieved over the years. And yes, I am rather unsure & a little pessimistic. "Insecurity" has its disadvantages.. AK ask if we belong to a club. I don't. I don't feel i need to. And this is my wordy responce as to why I don't. I felt I got kinda pushed aside.. Told i have to join a club to decide if I like it, etc.. Yves even seemed a little unsure about CAR & Such when I spoke with him a few years ago.. I've spoken with him off & on over the years. I've spoke a little with Franz too.. I've also had a "deep" conversation with Mr Wagsaff of ORG. Remi, I'm on the Tripoli Quebec newsgroup / mail list. (For some reason, i can't respond to any of the messages, but I get them all.. I hope the BBQ is a good one!) Except for Tom (Maritime Missiles) and the odd one here & there, it's all French. The few times I did attend Ste Pei's launches, most was in French too, except for the "outside Quebec" visitors; typically all ORG Members. I fly & talk regularly with Isabelle. This is Quebec afterall.. And I don't want to drag Quebec politics into this.. (I have 35+ years voting "no", and I go away on the 24th.. Maybe I've had just one or two bad experineces on St. Denis & Berri streets in my past..) Based off ORG's launch dates, many, if not all are limted to 300m (1000ft). I beleive it's was also in the transport regs, that model rocets are limited to 3000ft without waivers & NOTAMS. I got that number from somewhere.. Except for Fusilfest & "Rage the Gage", many of the AMAQ launches are limted in power as well. So, that's why I question the need for L1 or higher.. (I also don't see the need for an SUV in the city, nor a car capable of 220kph on a continent limited to 120kph) Baiscally, for me & my rocket activities, I can go launch at my local R/C flyign field and launch. I don't need to join another club and drive an hour.. And, at the time, it seemed I needed to join three organizations ($70+$70+$35), just to pop off a rocket slightly bigger than my Stealth Jr.

I'm sorry, maybe we all had a bad day, maybe M. Parizeau said something that stuck.. mAybe I'm commign across all wrong. I don't mean to, but it is what it is..

i guess i should just let this lay...

Jai vu aussi, que vous aviez un lien sur l'AMAQ siteweb pour ton site. Je t'ai faites un visite. Yves aussi, puis Pierre. L'un d'Isabelle ne marche pas, brisse.. Bonne chance avec "VIPE" J'espair que le meteo ceras a votres cote!

We'z kin all talk laak a soothurn tecsus cawboya. talkin lik won, don' maak me wun though..

##### Well-Known Member
What? No "Starlords" ???? :neener:

#### dr wogz

##### Fly caster
Quebec politics have a few very unique issues..
French vs. English is the predominnat theme through-out.. (And seems to go back 400+ years..)

I'm sorry that my views & opinions have slipped out. Sorry..

##### Well-Known Member
Quebec politics have a few very unique issues..
French vs. English is the predominnat theme through-out.. (And seems to go back 400+ years..)

I'm sorry that my views & opinions have slipped out. Sorry..

I was not replying to the Quebec posts. If I was, I would have quoted the one I was replying to.

My reply was a general "club" response to the silly poll in general.

#### AKPilot

##### Well-Known Member
Fred, this isn't the "club" thread. But, your feelings towards "silly" polls are acknowledged and noted. Time to move on . . . or, I'll start another poll on the acronymn "CATO". :neener:

#### troj

##### Wielder Of the Skillet Of Harsh Discipline, Potent
Okay, so I lied a smidge in my answer -- I listed both NAR & TRA, but technically I'm currently on TRA. My NAR membership just expired, and I need to renew it, which I will do when I get one 'o them round tuits.

Why?

Because, to be honest, while TRA is a better fit for much of my flying, I feel it important to support both. In addition, I work with TARC teams periodically, and they need a NAR Senior member....

-Kevin

#### MarkII

##### Well-Known Member
I am sure that I will join Tripoli eventually (I have every intention of doing so), but NAR is a better fit for the type of rocketry that I do now. Also, my club is an NAR section, but is not a Tripoli prefecture (yet). (It has its share of TRA members, though.) I have always had tremendous respect for NAR, even though I didn't become a member until 2006. NAR is inclusive enough that I will no doubt always find a welcome place there, regardless of what types of rockets I launch in the future, so I expect to keep up my membership and my participation in that organization. I have only just begun to get to know NAR people, and I only just attended my first national event a few months ago. But I would also like to get to know the folks in TRA as well, because I am keenly interested in what they do. So I will eventually have membership in both organizations.

MarkII

#### JAL3

##### Well-Known Member
I joined TRA in the 90s because the "big stuff" sucked me in. I only got to fly an H once back then. I built Estes and Quest kits back then but had to quit for family/academic reasons. My perception back then was that NAR hated TRA and wanted no part of me because I was interested in TRA, even if I just flew the smaller stuff.

This time around, I still have an interest in HPR and rejoined TRA but still do mostly LPR stuff with a few MPR forrays. I joined NAR for the magazine and access to info. THat has worked well for me as has the local NAR section. I'm glad to see that both groups can work together now and that there does not seem to be the same animus.

#### RoyAtl

##### Well-Known Member
I joined NAR in 1968 even before I'd launched my first rocket. I've been a member since then except for three years in the 70's and five years in the 80's.

I joined TRA in 1991, was briefly a prefect (Tripoli GAMMA, can't remember the number). Came not to like the internal politics of the org at the time and let the membership slide after a couple of years. Now the org is well-run, but NAR is just more my style.

#### luke strawwalker

I'm not a member of either organization... the dues are, to me, too high for NAR and I'm not interested in flying HPR (frankly can't afford it and don't think I'd spend the money on it or put up with the 'certifications' necessary to do it even if I had the cash). The mandatory insurance is just added expense that I personally don't need. I was a NAR member back when the insurance was an 'add-on' that you paid extra for, and I wish it was that way again, though I can see why they chose to just lump it in as an automatic membership item and force everyone to buy it. Frankly, though, that makes the cost of membership just too high for me to justify personally. $60 is a significant portion of my hobby 'budget' for the year and I'd rather spend that money on actual 'hardware'. I'm more of an individualist and not a big 'group' person, either. I don't compete and aren't particularly interested in competition, and since I don't need that or the HPR certs, I really have no incentive to be a member of a national organization. JMHO! OL JR #### MarkII ##### Well-Known Member I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member. - Groucho Marx "Yeah! What he said...!" - MarkII Last edited: #### MKP ##### Well-Known Member I'm not a member of either organization... the dues are, to me, too high for NAR and I'm not interested in flying HPR (frankly can't afford it and don't think I'd spend the money on it or put up with the 'certifications' necessary to do it even if I had the cash). The mandatory insurance is just added expense that I personally don't need. I was a NAR member back when the insurance was an 'add-on' that you paid extra for, and I wish it was that way again, though I can see why they chose to just lump it in as an automatic membership item and force everyone to buy it. Frankly, though, that makes the cost of membership just too high for me to justify personally.$60 is a significant portion of my hobby 'budget' for the year and I'd rather spend that money on actual 'hardware'.

I'm more of an individualist and not a big 'group' person, either. I don't compete and aren't particularly interested in competition, and since I don't need that or the HPR certs, I really have no incentive to be a member of a national organization.

JMHO! OL JR
^Super ditto^

Describes me perfectly.

#### Len_Lekx

##### Active Member
I'm a member of both CAR and Tripoli... since I pursue and support rocketry activities on BOTH sides of the border.

#### Mike Di Venti

##### Well-Known Member
I'm curious as to why someone wouldn't want to be a member at either org.?

I feel the membership fees are reasonable for what you get.
Where can you get a million dollar coverage for \$62? (NAR) I cant' get that as a GL rider to my homeowners policy.

My .02 cents

#### rdmmdr

##### Well-Known Member
tra since the club is tra. and since i fly big stuff i have to be. and for the insurance. we almost took out a car at dairy aire can you can thirty pounds coming down at terminal velocity. it dug a 8 inch hole in the asphalt and cromppled a 75 mm case

rick