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Discussion in 'Low Power Rocketry (LPR)' started by Scott_650, Oct 13, 2019.
Using the old or new ignit,,,. um, starters?
Yea good point....but I am not worried about it. I have had no troubles with the new ones.
The rise and (sort of) fall of the PSII kits meshes with my return to model rocketry - I was just getting back into the hobby when Estes (then owned by Hobbico) released some of the most popular PSII kits. And there were many electrons expended discussing how expensive they were, how they weren’t REALLY MPR/HPR rockets, how the PSII E2X kits were too easy and didn’t take real, steely eyed missile man skills to build. Then, when Hobbico’s financial problems started, they began blowing PSII kits out at huge discounts and PSII kits became the end all be all of the hobby. The current leadership at Estes has stated, publicly and in print, many times, that they have some plans for PSII rockets - my personal opinion is that Star Orbiter and Super Big Bertha are indicative of where they’re going (bigger 29mm motored rockets that are still light enough to fly well on 24mm BP motors) UNLESS they decide to develop in-house higher output motors. If they do that we would see new or returning kits similar to MDRM, Leviathan, Nike Smoke, etc... If not, then no. The PSII kits are nice - I have several E2X versions that are great flyers and several more of them plus builder kits stashed for future builds - but there are plenty of vendors other than Estes with kits in the 2.5-4 inch size range willing to sell us rockets.
I also just got to say......and this is just my opinion here...Aerotech has a line of kits that are really expensive for what you get...and somehow they have been selling them for years. If they did not make money on them....why continue selling them? I am sure they are still not on their first lot of molded components.
Wow, if Estes had a Pro-Series line with some real style and value...and sold them for less than a $80.00 $100.00 Aerotech kit. I bet they would do well. Anyway...there is always Loc Precision...they take my money just fine
Yep; nose cone, short body tube, 3 fins, launch lug, 3 strips of balsa (for looks?), some bits of copper foil or something for weight. $11.99.
Nope, ain't gettin that one.
Maybe an upscale of the Fatboy on a BT-101 or 3 inches. Big Daddy upscale?
One thing to keep in mind: Estes has different volume expectations vs. other vendors. A volume that may satisfy other vendors might not be enough to support the business at Estes.
That said, I don't know how they modeled their PSII business, or where the numbers fell.
Considering the recent outbreak of Luna Bug Fever a Mega Bug sounds about right! Basically a Mega Mosquito with different fins and a 29mm motor mount
The larger kits I speak of do not have to "support the business" as you said above.....just be a contributing part of it.
Support the PSII business. Each product must justify its existence.
Just think of the thousands of people who have, are currently doing, and will do an upscale......of an Estes rocket.
WOW! The Estes ESAM-58 has not been out but a few months and somebody is already upscaling it! See plans forum.
If that kit was done in BT-70 or BT-80 size for 29mm BP motors or dual 24mm D's. I bet they could not keep them in stock......anyway. They will do what they want....I will move on.
And thats exactly what Estes hopes they will do....nothing gets kids more excited than seeing larger versions fly of rockets they can then go and buy themselves.
Small. It has a twin engine pod on under each wing - not shown in the photos. This is to balance out the drag. Even more airplane like than the Conquest ! Happy times for the upper skill levels!
>> I find the LEO Space Train interesting - does that rail and pod structure slide forward to change the CoG so the whole thing glides for recovery?
Did Scott just volunteer for a new project? I think he needs to find out if his hypothesis is true or not?
I would like to see some "real" scale rockets. Can Estes not make any current production or just retired rockets like RSR did? Delta II, Atlas V, Delta IV or even a Proton, Soyuz or some ESA rockets? Someone fill me in. I'm sure someone knows why not.
Agreed totally! I'd also like the wall art behind them on my office walls!
A few hundred maybe.
The companies who make these rockets want licensing fees and royalties from every kit sold.
I have learned that Estes expectations for the original PSII kits was the same as any of their other, traditional model rocket kits.
They expected thousands of each one would sell every year.
That did not happen.
This is only my biased opinion but I find AeroTech kits to be well-designed and innovative.
The original PSII kits sold for $60-$70 SRP. Less than AeroTech kits but still unable to sell in numbers Estes hoped for.
Sadly John Boren responded elsewhere that the Space Train uses normal parachute style recovery.
It has crossed my mind to try and mod it into a glider. To date most of my modifications have been fairly simple - different paint, fin shapes, up sizing motors, single motor to cluster - so it would be interesting to give something like this a try. Though the attempt to lift my X24 Bug with a 24mm motored Quest Big Betty was at least entertaining if not (even slightly) successful.
I guess I missed that thread. Maybe you needed a slightly beefier carrier and an F engine:
That Gryphon looks oddly familiar. Did they put a facelift on an old kit and re-release it?
You know what....that is a cheap shot.
I have supported Estes in purchasing their Pro-Series Kits. I have and have had I bet close to 25-30 of them in total. I currently have a closet full of Estes kits and have supported and promoted their products to others and on this forum. Like others I have spent thousands of dollars on Estes kits alone not to mention the mountain of motors I have purchased over the years. I am extremely active (as you are too I am sure) in this hobby and one of the few people I know who regularly travel to other states around me, not only for high power but also for low power launching. To quip that I should support the Pro-Series II is a cheap shot. I have, along with many others HAVE done just that. And showing enthusiasm for an idea to people to whom I would give more of my money is called a "supportive customer base". I too see what people like and pay attention to when things are being launched. I also see what folks like as well. It seems like the "old guard" of model rocketry like to put down enthusiasm for certain things if it does not fit their view of what is proper and successful in model rocketry. All I see is "we tried that once before and it did not work so forget it".....
I see in others and personally have, enthusiasm for the idea that if Estes produces some larger model rockets with style and value there could be a market for it. This is based on real world observations. There are many ways to do this and it would be unprofitable....but there also could be a way to do it where it could work....I have run a successful business for over 14 years and even did well during a recession. I am not an idiot. I know some products make more money than others and I also know some products serve to get the company exposure even if they break even on a particular line.
What is depressing is the lack of "Gee....maybe this could work" or "you know, it would be cool if" ...THAT kind of attitude generates IDEAS and enthusiasm. Ideas that could make things work if approached with a fresh set of eyes, ideas and enthusiasm. Something missing in many business models. Instead all we get are wet blankets.
Also...Initiator001. I DID purchase one of your Aerotech Initiators for $76.00 it had two warped fins (plastic) a decal that was creased and dried out and did not stick..I also purchased a G-Force with a bent nose cone and centering rings that where the shape of potato chips. I spent $93.00 on that "piece of value". Never heard back from them...Now that's value and money well spent. I also did not know you still work for Estes and Aerotech.
I will take my enthusiasm for the possibility of what the hobby can do elsewhere.
good day all.
He wasn’t telling you to support the PS11 business or implying that you don’t. He was clarifying what he meant in an earlier post when he said that PS11 kits must “support the business.”
You have grossly misunderstood my meaning. At no point was anyone discussing *your* support of Estes (where did you get that idea?), I'm talking about the *products*. The PSII products must sell in sufficient quantities and generate sufficient revenue and profit to justify their existence in the product line. They don't need to support all of Estes, but they need to support themselves.
[edit: looking back on my previous post, it is possible my overly terse "Support the PSII product line" could be misinterpreted. If so I apologize, but I was simply trying to directly clarify my previous statement, apparently unsuccessfully in this case].
Apparently, they did not. And even worse, they don't drive sales of BP motors which is really Estes' bread and butter.
It is always possible to have "strategic" products that don't generate profits themselves but help enable the rest of the business. The PSII kits don't seem to qualify.
I don’t think neil_w meant anything personal. The fate of the PSII line has been debated here for years. Passion runs high for the World Leader in Model Rocketry. In any case, the current management of Estes has stated that their Facebook page is a primary source for communication and feedback. Good day to you !
Okay then....MY BAD. Very sorry all. I guess all I saw on that post was "support the Pro Series II Business"....I could have sworn the second statement was not there originally...anyway).
I took it wrong and combined with a tense day....well, you see what I wrote. Anyway.....very sorry. Samb is correct....passions for Estes do run high. I am passionate about the hobby and its potential (It is sad most kids and folks today would rather stare into a phone instead of getting out in the fresh air and sunshine with a model they built).
Neil - I apologize....please forgive me.
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