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Discussion in 'The Watering Hole' started by vcp, Jan 24, 2020.
First impression - androids get fat.
He must be 25% different from the original series to avoid royalty fees having to be paid by Bad Robot on their IP contract. Thus the hair, off color make up and short screen time.
Like Disney Star Wars, STD, Terminator Dark Fate, Doctor Who, MIB and Ghostbusters 2016, this series is shaping up to be the same overly Woke garbage.
Without debating the general validity of such an accusation, I must point out that it is especially strange to aim it at a Star Trek series. Being "Woke" has been a fundamental part of Star Trek since TOS.
By Kirk's Fist, he might be onto something here... Cloud William was a MAGA kind of guy!
Star Trek was a progressive series - “woke” is something new entirely. For example, Progressive Star Trek insisted that four lights is four lights - “woke” insists that you say there are five.
Was not impressed at all. Not off to a good start.
Annnd... the thread gets political by the second message.
I like the show. Really enjoyed the first episode.
WTH is it with people who just love to jump in to criticize and even HATE on things like Star Wars and Star Trek?
BTW - this "woke" criticism reminds me of an era say 60-70 years ago when it was "OK" (well, not REALLY, but it happened lots) to call minorities various slur words and discriminate against them and women for all sorts of excuses. One of that era's term for "woke" would be "Uppity" (often followed by a certain word with an N). So, any time I see someone criticizing "woke", I think of them saying "Uppity ******". And for sure some of the people using that word would indeed have said that other term 60-70 years ago. Others just parrot it without even thinking, since they see so many others do it.
You might want to go back to the original Star Trek era of "Ensign Rand, get me a cup of coffee after you change into a shorter skirt", but that ain't happening (fortunately that's more like "Mad Men" than Star Trek TOS, there was no such scene).
Hell, I could imagine if "woke" was a term in the 1980's, that some people's reaction to TNG, when Geordi became chief engineer, to complain that it was "woke" to have Geordi become the engineer (discrimination #1), and not a Scotsman.
Wait for it....
If you did not realize until reading this sentence that discrimination #2 and #3 was the engineer not being of Scottish ancestry, and needing to be a man, YOU need to "Wake up" and realize what century you are in. This is not a complaint about the original Scotty at all, but the idea that after Scotty, the Enterprise ought to have a "Scotsman" as the engineer.
And now in Picard, we see the Federation itself has responded to a major attack by discriminating against a certain type of sentient being. And also "letting the terrorists win" by changing the high principles that the Federation used to stand for. For which that's a certain parallel that too many won't "get" (think of how much discrimination and loss of personal freedoms/privacy has occurred in the last 19 years in response to what one mastermind and 19 programmed dittoheads did. THEY WON. And it keeps accelerating).
And that also is the history of much of Sci-fi, and CERTAINLY Star Trek, to mirror real life. Even if sometimes it is sledge-hammer level ("Let that be your last battlefield")
Star Trek has ALWAYS been "WOKE". At least relative to its' era. Some things from TOS would be done a bit differently today, no more mini-skirts (which were gone by Star Trek: The Motion Picture).
Progressive is not extreme "wokeness" or identity politics being shoved down your throat. Bad writing, disrespect for cannon and Mary Sue characterizations are all hallmarks of these "Bad Reboots ." Hollywood is solidly on the go woke go broke path like Gillette.
I can pass on Star Trek Dystopia in Jar Jar Abrams rebooted universe.
Can't take a joke George? Sheesh...
Here's a pretty neat thing. Patrick Stewart asks Whoopie Goldberg to be in season 2 (as Guinan):
Geez. You do not even know what "universe" Picard is set in. NOT the Abrams verse, it's the original ST universe before the Abrams split-off where Vulcan got destroyed (where original ST history was changed and Spock hooked up with Uhura, which never happened in TOS , among many other things).
This is NOT a reboot. It's more akin to a delayed sequel, or spinoff. Has the same original actors playing the same characters as before.
Now, an example of a reboot is Battlestar Galactica in 2004, a reboot of the 1978 original, and wow was that awesome (of course some freaked out that Starbuck was female, too "uppity" for their little minds, apparently.).
Wrong. It is in the STD universe. It is a Bad Robot production with Alex Kurtsman. Viacom holds the rights to the Non-Kelvin time line. All CBS - Secret Hideout (Bad Robot) is reboot. Intellectual Property has a major impact on what they can do and at what cost
Going forward with the Recent Viacom-CBS merger they are going to get rid of Abrams and his Bad Robot! The new CBS Management is very worried about STP after the disaster of STD on all access.
I liked the dog.
edit: But -- https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Lal
I had to go look it up..
As for the show, I started watching last night, but then realized the dogs needed a walk. Will watch the rest tonight, maybe that'll help tie the word to the show / show's intent as some see it...
And I don't quite get AstronWolf's comment.. Kirk is a Canadian. He just works in Hollywood (and outer space..) Dunno how that ties to the MAGA movement.. doesn't that kinda contradict it?!
No. Kirk is from Rigel. Do you know who Cloud William is?
Cloud William... Yangs vesus Coms... MAGA? Get it? Maybe not. Maybe you guys are just too stiff.
How was STD a disaster? It's going into its third season and has been well rated.
Who knows what the real ratings are on a streaming service? Doctor Who just got a third season with BBC and Chibnal despite the ratings and it will get a fourth and fifth season with HBO Max picking up the tab. Netflix bailed on STD after financing season one. Can't find financing for JJs Star Trek Four. Even looks like Terantino is out of the picture.
The only interest in Star Trek rights is that Seth Mcfarlane guy, who many at CBS see as the pretender to the throne! Have you seen Family Guy? The Orville? If Picard doesn't succeed CBS all access will be in trouble. The streaming wars begun have they!
Picard will get really awesome with a Dystopian Federation and Sir Patrick getting in Tidbits he demanded in his contract. Orange Man bad and Anti Brexit. I hope they can write that well, but given the production problems and the past episodes of STD I have little faith.
Kirk is from Iowa.
For me, the difference between Progressive and Woke falls into two categories:
#1 - Progressive is positive, showing a better approach to an issue. Woke is negative, blaming a majority class or historical view for the issue. The assumption for Woke is that eliminating all the blamed will “fix” the issue.
#2 - Progressive encourages you to think about the issue and solutions. Woke demands compliance with a militant view (political correctness for example) and refuses to engage in any sort of rational discussion.
I haven’t seen Picard yet, and won’t until I can watch the whole season in a single month subscription period. CBS is just one of the streaming services trying to force you to subscribe by dangling a single exclusive show. The situation reminds me of cable tv in the 80s and all the premium channels.
For those that don't remember the original series well enough:
I won't see the series until I can either:
1. Rent it on Blu-ray (NOT DVD!) via Netflix or 3DBluRayRental.com
2. It makes the rounds on one of the three services I subscribe to: Netflix, Hulu, or Amazon Prime.
I'm subscribed to three services, that's it. I'm done.
Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out.
We will have to wait for the refs to review the footage, but we may have a winner.
Unfortunately, a lot of new shows are never released on BluRay these days. Specifically to keep the high quality version sole-sourced to a specific streaming platform.
I am black and I had to look up "Being Woke". "Political Correctness" (Bad Thing) going way off "The Bell Shaped Curve" (Really Bad Thing). I don't follow all that hyper sensitive BS. Yes, half my ancestors (I'm also part Swedish) got a really raw deal back in the day. But that was then and this is now. Cannot fix the past, but can build a better future.
This Hating the "New Version" of a show reminds me of the bad vibes that killed Stargate Universe, a show that I thought was a fantastic addition to the SG-Verse. Oh well......
William Shatner, who plays Kirk, was born In Montreal, he is Canadian.
One reason the thread got political right away is because Patrick Stewart made "Picard" political in an interview he just did in Variety. If anyone wants to blame someone for making the show political, Stewart is your man. https://variety.com/2020/tv/features/patrick-stewart-star-trek-picard-cbs-all-access-1203459573/
I'm not paying for another streaming service to get a single show, I don't care if it's Star Trek or "Debbie Does Dallas, the Series". CBS, you gotta come up with a better business model than that.
Best -- Terry
Agreed. And, besides a couple Trek shows, does CBS All Access have anything else unique to them that is worth watching? The only shows I've ever heard of them having are the Trek ones. And I'm more than just a scifi guy, just the only thing that has breached my awareness filters is Discovery and now Picard. No idea what else they have, and frankly don't care.
I'm enjoying The Expanse on Amazon Prime by the way. First season was a bit of a slog at first, but I'm well into season 2 and loving it now. Reminds me of the learning curve in Babylon5.
The unconfirmed but notoriously accurate leaks for STP season one have come out on the internet this morning. Take a look if you like. Midnight's Edge on YouTube. There will be other channels covering this later today.
Sorry, I already pay a huge amount for premium cable and Internet. I'm not going to be nickle and dimed by placing one show I might want to watch somewhere I'll have to pay even more... and another lone show on some other subscription service... and another. I've already got more than I can watch anyway.
I am going to wait for that to be available on DVD (not BluRAY!)
William Melvin Kelley never wrote for ST:TOS.
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