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Phoenix Maiden Flight

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PWALPOCO

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Today my Phoenix made its first flight after a long delay trying to get hold of D motors for it.

Alan(ntrance) , Mark (Woody) and I managed to take to the field despite grey skies and Alans imminent jet lag having only just returned from the USA this morning !!

Many thanks to Alan for the pressies he bought back with him :D Im sure woody and I will have them built ready to go for the next launch date.

Well today you could easily forget all that flew, there were quite a few types that made it to the pad in the end. Quite an exciting day really , in the inventory available to launch we had ,

Estes
Astrocam , MaxTrax , Code Red, Bullpup , Phoenix ,CC Express, X-Fliers, and two Missile Command sets (with those death trap Armys')

Das Modell
Ariane V

The star of the show I think was the Ariane, it had a decent height on it for its size on the C motor , and the chute that came with it looked great, Estes PLEASE take note !

My apologies go to Woody though as it appears from video evidence I lauched it with the Launch Rod safety cap on (Well at least I use it , better to have it on when its meant to be off rather than off when its meant to be on !) and I broke the lug which we recovered...... oops :( Sorry Woody.

Fin Damage seemed a recurring theme though via one route or other. My Phoenix has sustained a weakened fin joint on its second landing and needs repairing. Woodys Ariane V on the second flight knocked its fin off on landing , video evidence shows the BT landed directly on a fin first .... ouch ......

Dont even ask how Alans first stage fin broke on the CC-Express.

Oh well , the launch videos will be done tomorrow for those who are interested. My favourites will be the Ariane flights and the second Phoenix flight ..... I wanted a rocket where I could see the whole flight ...... and this delivered the goods.

Glad to see the Rocket Gods were only minorly irritated and did minor damage rather than actually destroying or stealing anything.


Paul
 

PWALPOCO

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Heres a a pre-video photo from today with an Estes Phoenix and Das Modell Ariane V waiting on the pad .....



Paul
 

cydermaster

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They both look cool as ****, waiting for the off. Thanks for the pic, Paul.

Looking forward to the video. Does anybody loose a fight with a rabbit hole on this one? ;)
 

PWALPOCO

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I think we ALL lost a fight with a rabbit hole but thanks to some lucky timing none of it was caught on film !! I fell over once and I know Alan did too , I just cant remember if Woody fell over (again).

The Astrocam nearly vanished into a rabbit hole of such giant proportions I suspect the bunny responsible is on some kind of top secret government backed growth hormone.

The problem with doing the videos is that if you make a newbie error your freinds will happily point it out to you when you check the tape out after. Jessica Woody Fletcher and Sherlock ntrance Holmes managed to figure out that the Ariane launched with a safety cap still on the Rod (Im innocent dammit !).

Oh well , looking forward to the Caps being done tommorow !

Paul
 

gerbs4me

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wow, they looks really cool, you did a great job on both.:)
 

hokkyokusei

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Originally posted by PWALPOCO
Heres a a pre-video photo from today with an Estes Phoenix and Das Modell Ariane V waiting on the pad .....
Paul
They both look great. The Phoenix is one of my favourite Estes rockets. Flies great on D - F!
 

PWALPOCO

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Ooops !

Sunday was meant to be vidcap day , but "unfortunately" :D we got another day of flying instead !! I had a call from Woody telling me the weather looked great and we should fly, so we rallied Ntrance, made some rapid repairs from yesterdays flights and set to the field once again !!

The Ariane V continued to give amazing flights , the baffle system really works a treat , no messy black crud in the BT and the parachute is excellent. Youll see what we mean when the videos come through.

The CC-Express was another first for the group, being our entry into staging. Yesterday we only flew one stage, today we flew two. Boost and sustainer went cleanly and we seem to be getting very good with our "wheres it going to go?" predictions. I had set myself on one of the dunes roughly where I thought the Express would land near and during the rockets descent to earth it passed directly over my position. Had it fallen just a little quicker I would have been exactly in the right spot.

The Phoenix suffered a little with the wind today. Theres a limit to what she can fly in and today I found what that limit was. Basically a fin sheered right off from the BT. Interestingly enough it wasnt the glue that had failed , but the BT itself. The fin had a fine layer of BT on it indicating that the glue held to the surface of the BT but the BT didnt hold together.

The Glues drying now , shall see how it turns out in a bit. In the meanwhile , heres a pic from todays action , another pad shot with Alans MaxTrax and CC-Express, Woodys ArianeV and my Phoenix.

Saturdays and Sundays vids will hopefully get captured during Monday and links will be available. Sundays best will be anything to do with the Ariane (again !) and the CC-Express.

Paul
 

Steward

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A trick I learned (the hard way) from past experiences...
I keep the safety key to the launch controller tied on the string with the safety cap...There is no way I can launch with the rod
safety cap in place on the rod...

Well...worth considering anyway...!!!
GOOD LUCK...
 

PWALPOCO

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Hey there :)

Thanks for the tip , will mention it to the lads though it seems Im the main culprit lately for leaving it on. Saturday was the first day I had actually launched with the cap still on though :(

Paul
 

PWALPOCO

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Heres a video of my heavy old Phoenix getting off of the pad (just) !!

http://www.members.aol.com/pwalpoco/RocketVids/phoenix_launch1.wmv

I need more power and I dont think the chute is aiding its performance , it must way a fair few grams more than the stock plastic chute that came with it .. ah well .......

After a long drawn out process of posting pics of it getting it built and painted and then waiting an age to aquire the motors for it I thought I may as well go the whole hog and let you see a video of it on the go too.



Paul
 

billeblurzz

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Excellent Phoenix flight and video!!! I enjoyed that very much! What motor was that? It seemed just right for the Phoenix.:) :)
 

wwattles

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Can you get any of the Aerotech Econojets over there? I seem to recall that the RMS kits are controlled, but are the SU motors too? The Phoenix flies very well on higher power, as long as you add the noseweight and wait until the winds calm down before flight.

WW
 

hokkyokusei

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Originally posted by wwattles
Can you get any of the Aerotech Econojets over there? I seem to recall that the RMS kits are controlled, but are the SU motors too? The Phoenix flies very well on higher power, as long as you add the noseweight and wait until the winds calm down before flight.

WW
Not quite sure what you mean by controlled? All AP needs a license over here, but it's not hard to get. I've flown my Phoenix on E15, E30, E28, F12, F24, F39. It rocks on them all.

I did add a bit more noseweight, but I can't say I agree with you about the wind. The Phoenix flies better on an E30 than a D12 if there's any wind. Something that gets it off the pad quick!
 

cydermaster

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Sweet video of a cool flight, Paul. :cool:

You lot are posting some wicked videos - keep it up!
 

loopy

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Originally posted by hokkyokusei
Not quite sure what you mean by controlled? All AP needs a license over here, but it's not hard to get. I've flown my Phoenix on E15, E30, E28, F12, F24, F39. It rocks on them all.

I did add a bit more noseweight, but I can't say I agree with you about the wind. The Phoenix flies better on an E30 than a D12 if there's any wind. Something that gets it off the pad quick!
How much nose weight did you use? I have a Phoenix I built to fly on 24mm reloads, and I'm trying to figure out how much nose weight I need. It's all basswood fins, and built with epoxy, so I know it's gained alot of weight over stock...
 

hokkyokusei

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Originally posted by Loopy
How much nose weight did you use? I have a Phoenix I built to fly on 24mm reloads, and I'm trying to figure out how much nose weight I need. It's all basswood fins, and built with epoxy, so I know it's gained alot of weight over stock...
Sorry, I don't remember exactly how much it was, probably didn't even weigh it at the time. Just added enough to bring the CG back to where it was meant to be with the bigger motors.

I didn't change the fins, except for a very small epoxy fillet. I also lined the back end of the rocket by sliding in a length of coupler.
 

PWALPOCO

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Hi all ,

The motor used for that flight was a BP Estes D12-3.

The construction is stock however the chute as youve probably seen is a LOC 28in Nylon which is mounted by use of a snap swivel.

The extra weight means that the flight attains a lower altitude than the 109m spec hence the ability of Alan and his good camera work to film the whole flight.

I beleive Aerotech do Single Use AP motors of 24mm dimension but Im not sure what length those are and if one would fit in a D-mount. AP motors would mean I would need to obtain the necessary legal paperwork first. Im sure between the group Im in that one of us could obtain that.

I think that there are AT- AP 24mm SU motors (E-F?) which fit into an Estes BP E motor mount but for people at my level who are looking at higher powered BP motors an E enabled mount isnt going to be common.

Estes BP E motors are an oddity in the UK. BP motors for all intents and purposes are legal on the basis of your age (+16?/+18?) BUT you cant have the E kind FULLSTOP. Theyve not been approved for use in the UK. AP Motors are regulated but once you have the paperwork you can have whatever motor. Ironically you can have an AP E motor legally but not a BP E motor !

Im hoping to get guidance on how to set up a mount for clustering in another Phoenix build in order to higher. In particular im interested in learning about "adaptors" , Id like to set up mounts which can swap between motor sizes.

Paul
 

hokkyokusei

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Originally posted by PWALPOCO
I beleive Aerotech do Single Use AP motors of 24mm dimension but Im not sure what length those are and if one would fit in a D-mount. AP motors would mean I would need to obtain the necessary legal paperwork first. Im sure between the group Im in that one of us could obtain that.

I think that there are AT- AP 24mm SU motors (E-F?) which fit into an Estes BP E motor mount but for people at my level who are looking at higher powered BP motors an E enabled mount isnt going to be common.

Estes BP E motors are an oddity in the UK. BP motors for all intents and purposes are legal on the basis of your age (+16?/+18?) BUT you cant have the E kind FULLSTOP. Theyve not been approved for use in the UK. AP Motors are regulated but once you have the paperwork you can have whatever motor. Ironically you can have an AP E motor legally but not a BP E motor !

The single use 24mm AP motors are the same length as the Estes D. The RMS AP motors are also the same length, but have a protrusion for the delay and ejection charge. It _might_ foul on your motor retainer. There are two version of the Estes Phoenix mount, I have the one desigend for the old E15 motor (with a spacer for the D12), and they definately fit in those.

Regarding the Estes E, the situation is that it has not been "classified and authorised" by the HSE. If it were to be C&Aed it would not be in the same catagory as the rest of the Estes motors, due to the weight of BP. Becaus of the different category, you would actually need the same paper work to aquire this motor as you do for AP. Some have speculated that this is the reason Ripmax have not bothered to sort out the C&A, because even if they did, their normal distribution outlets wouldn't want to take it.

There's nothing to stop anyone else form having it classified & authorised, but even then Ripmax would be unlikely to import them. However, they do sometimes appear via "grey" channels. Next time you're at a launch, you might like to whisper "long D" in your dealer's ear.
 

PWALPOCO

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hokkyokusei ,

Thanks for that useful information :)

The Phoenix version I have has the D motor mount, it is reassuring to note from your comments that should the opportunity arrise then a AT-SU 24mm motor will fit in the place of a regular BP motor. I thought that whilst the 24mm SU motors existed I mistakenly beleived they needed a longer mount , like for a BP-E , not a BP-D. My mistake , but all the better !

As for Estes E motors the information youve given here has filled in the blank space in my knowledge as to "why ?" they arent ok in the UK. Thanks again.

"Long D's" eh ? Thats certainly a subject where you have to weigh up the pros and cons ......

Paul
 

hokkyokusei

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Originally posted by PWALPOCO
The Phoenix version I have has the D motor mount, it is reassuring to note from your comments that should the opportunity arrise then a AT-SU 24mm motor will fit in the place of a regular BP motor. I thought that whilst the 24mm SU motors existed I mistakenly beleived they needed a longer mount , like for a BP-E , not a BP-D. My mistake , but all the better !
Convenient isn't it? ;) I thought your's was probably the newer one. My Phoenix is quite old now!


As for Estes E motors the information youve given here has filled in the blank space in my knowledge as to "why ?" they arent ok in the UK. Thanks again.
No problem.


"Long D's" eh ? Thats certainly a subject where you have to weigh up the pros and cons ......
I'm not saying I condone it ;)
 

xxxREKxxx

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Whoa! I finally got around to watching the video. Wicked Nice! (as we say here in "New England") That lift off was perfect, it looked real from here. I haven't flown mine yet, I've been working on a semi-scale scratch Nike Apache - Aerobee 170 sort of thing. It looks and flies cool no matter what it looks like (Camera broken/pix to follow). I hope to send the Phoenix this weekend, we had gallons of rain this week so everything is swampified:(
Bob
 

PWALPOCO

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Glad you like the video , thought you would watch it as youve built a Phoenix yourself.

The gang and I are trying to sort out a site which is at ....

www.launchwindow.co.uk

We are trying to keep up to date with our videos and things but the last update seems to have run into webspace problems.

Keep us up to date with how your weekend went REK


Paul
 

PWALPOCO

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Just another video filmed from a few weekends ago during my Phoenixs debut. This was the second flight but the maiden flight for the CC Express as a two stager.

It flew straight up into the clear blue skies above Wales. .... A good clean flight I think youd agree and a well filmed recovery.

I was way off in the distance down range of the rocket which passed right over my head during its fall to earth. I was on top of a big dune during the whole flight and it passed about 80ft above me when it drifted past me during recovery. You might just hear me say on the radio that its right above me. Had the CC fallen a little quicker I would have been been in the perfect catching spot.

If you look closely youll just see me on top of the dune to the far right of the opening moments of the vid ...... quite a way from the launch but the handy radios allow me to do the countdown.

http://www.members.aol.com/pwalpoco/RocketVids/ccexpress-2.wmv

enjoy

Paul
 

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