# performance hobbies

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#### warnerr

It is always a pleasure doing business with Kennesson Allen at Performance hobbies. He is quick to ship, handles order anomalies instantly- what can you say when every things first class?

#### blackbrandt

##### That Darn College Student
Love to deal with him. Ken's always got something for me, whenever I need it. Furthermore, what other vendor picks up the phone when i call and says "Hello Matt!"

#### Lowpuller

##### Well-Known Member
I would agree, he has also been great in my few dealings with. In fact I need to order a motor up for November.

#### Mustang67

Solid dealer, reliable, knowledgeable and committed to his business and customers.

Just a cool guy.

#### SCP

##### Well-Known Member
Yeah, like they all said!

#### Rick Thome

##### Member
I have ordered from Ken on occasion in the past. Fairly fast and good service. But, this last time.... not so good. In fact I am still waiting for a 'Black Friday' 5.5" Nike 2-stage kit I ordered last year. I let him know I wasn't in a big hurry to get the kit. So no real rush. Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned that... Ken took the money out of my account the first week of January. So, I thought the kit would be arriving soon.... nope.

Now I am wondering if I ever will get the kit. I have emailed him several times. Each time he responds fairly quickly, but not with an expected shipment date.

It could be true that his supplier is giving him the 'run-around', I just don't know...??? Maybe I just need to cancel the order and get my money back. But the rocket kit at that price would be better.... It does make me very leary about ordering from him again.

I am a smaller vendor myself for the local club here in Idaho (Treasure Valley Rocketry). Sorry I don't have a website yet.... I guess I'm as slow on getting that started as Ken is getting me that kit... LOL. The one thing I have learned from this is: To have product inventory on hand to fill orders, and have a website that shows when things are out of stock in real time. Since most of us don't live next to a large rocketry hobby store - People plan their hobbies mainly around their orders, and what stuff they can find locally.

Rick
Treasure Valley Rocketry

#### Bill S

##### Well-Known Member
I'd go ahead and do a chargeback on your credit card - get your money back; there is usually a time limit to do so.

#### mjhall

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Check out the "Last Minute Holiday" thread under Vendor Display

#### crossfire

That is crazy. Yes you need a refund

#### Rick Thome

##### Member
Check out the "Last Minute Holiday" thread under Vendor Display
Thanks,
That thread helps clarify the situation. Curtis is the holdup... as Ken has said.

I will be patient. Been VERY busy, and really don't have time to build anything.

Rick

#### crossfire

Thanks,
That thread helps clarify the situation. Curtis is the holdup... as Ken has said.

I will be patient. Been VERY busy, and really don't have time to build anything.

Rick
I guess you have money to just throw away. Send some my way.

#### Ez2cDave

##### Well-Known Member
Curtis is the holdup... as Ken has said.

Rick
Years ago, I gave Curtis the nickname "SNAFU" . . . It fits, like a glove !

Dave F.

#### crossfire

Ken is a nice guy but he sold the kits. It's up to Ken to make customers happy.

#### jimzcatz

##### Boss, Carolina Rocket Mafia
I have ordered from Ken on occasion in the past. Fairly fast and good service. But, this last time.... not so good. In fact I am still waiting for a 'Black Friday' 5.5" Nike 2-stage kit I ordered last year. I let him know I wasn't in a big hurry to get the kit. So no real rush. Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned that... Ken took the money out of my account the first week of January. So, I thought the kit would be arriving soon.... nope.

Now I am wondering if I ever will get the kit. I have emailed him several times. Each time he responds fairly quickly, but not with an expected shipment date.

It could be true that his supplier is giving him the 'run-around', I just don't know...??? Maybe I just need to cancel the order and get my money back. But the rocket kit at that price would be better.... It does make me very leary about ordering from him again.

I am a smaller vendor myself for the local club here in Idaho (Treasure Valley Rocketry). Sorry I don't have a website yet.... I guess I'm as slow on getting that started as Ken is getting me that kit... LOL. The one thing I have learned from this is: To have product inventory on hand to fill orders, and have a website that shows when things are out of stock in real time. Since most of us don't live next to a large rocketry hobby store - People plan their hobbies mainly around their orders, and what stuff they can find locally.

Rick
Treasure Valley Rocketry
Don't do a charge back, Ken doesn't have the money, Curtis does, or did. This is how this works. Ken sells a kit. Curtis says send me the money, I will get it out in a few days (blatant lie). Ken dings card, Curtis goes to the Bahamas and screws customer. Unfortunately, Ken is looked on as the bad guy for trusting a crook like Curtis. Yes, I agree Ken should not sell something he actually does not possess. Regarding last year's Black Friday sales, Ken and Curtis work up a deal for kits, Ken sells kits thinking Curtis will deliver in a timely manner. Curtis tell Ken to charge the cards, he needs supplies. He proceeds to take said money and fill orders for Madcow, Rocketman, and AMW. He has done this on several occasions. Ken need to divorce himself from Curtis, he knows this. Unfortunately Curtis still owes Ken several thousand dollars worth of merchandise. Maybe one day Ken will be shed of that thief, but until he is, I beg you to be patient. Thanks for letting me rant.

#### Ez2cDave

##### Well-Known Member
Don't do a charge back, Ken doesn't have the money, Curtis does, or did. This is how this works. Ken sells a kit. Curtis says send me the money, I will get it out in a few days (blatant lie). Ken dings card, Curtis goes to the Bahamas and screws customer. Unfortunately, Ken is looked on as the bad guy for trusting a crook like Curtis. Yes, I agree Ken should not sell something he actually does not possess. Regarding last year's Black Friday sales, Ken and Curtis work up a deal for kits, Ken sells kits thinking Curtis will deliver in a timely manner. Curtis tell Ken to charge the cards, he needs supplies. He proceeds to take said money and fill orders for Madcow, Rocketman, and AMW. He has done this on several occasions. Ken need to divorce himself from Curtis, he knows this. Unfortunately Curtis still owes Ken several thousand dollars worth of merchandise. Maybe one day Ken will be shed of that thief, but until he is, I beg you to be patient. Thanks for letting me rant.
Hello, Jim !

It sounds to me like Curtis needs a good, "old-fashioned, country azz-whuppin' " !

Is there anyone else out there, in "Rocketry Land", who could take Curtis' place ?

Dave F.

#### cbrarick

##### Wildman CT
Hello, Jim !

It sounds to me like Curtis needs a good, "old-fashioned, country azz-whuppin' " !

Is there anyone else out there, in "Rocketry Land", who could take Curtis' place ?

Dave F.
Tim figured it out, hence the lighter tube. Mucho easier on the back for the big rockets.
I like Ken, but...this isn't the first rodeo with Curtis (who I put in the same group as He-who-shall-not-be-mentioned).

Just saying......

#### crossfire

Don't do a charge back, Ken doesn't have the money, Curtis does, or did. This is how this works. Ken sells a kit. Curtis says send me the money, I will get it out in a few days (blatant lie). Ken dings card, Curtis goes to the Bahamas and screws customer. Unfortunately, Ken is looked on as the bad guy for trusting a crook like Curtis. Yes, I agree Ken should not sell something he actually does not possess. Regarding last year's Black Friday sales, Ken and Curtis work up a deal for kits, Ken sells kits thinking Curtis will deliver in a timely manner. Curtis tell Ken to charge the cards, he needs supplies. He proceeds to take said money and fill orders for Madcow, Rocketman, and AMW. He has done this on several occasions. Ken need to divorce himself from Curtis, he knows this. Unfortunately Curtis still owes Ken several thousand dollars worth of merchandise. Maybe one day Ken will be shed of that thief, but until he is, I beg you to be patient. Thanks for letting me rant.
Jim you know as well as I do this is not the first time Ken has had issues with Curtis. Like it or not Ken is on the hook for this mess. Why would anyone wait any longer for a refund?

#### jimzcatz

##### Boss, Carolina Rocket Mafia
I understand all that, and I agree. But at this point refunds come out of Ken's pocket while Curtis spent the money.

#### Steve Shannon

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
I understand all that, and I agree. But at this point refunds come out of Ken's pocket while Curtis spent the money.
In my opinion, ethically, that makes no difference.
It’s nice of you to defend your friend, but he advertised the product, took the money, and kept a profit. The fact that he made a bad deal with Curtis has nothing to do with the original customer. The only one innocent in this is the retail customer. The customer can only legally go after Ken. He should and as soon as possible.

#### Ez2cDave

##### Well-Known Member
In my opinion, ethically, that makes no difference.
It’s nice of you to defend your friend, but he advertised the product, took the money, and kept a profit. The fact that he made a bad deal with Curtis has nothing to do with the original customer. The only one innocent in this is the retail customer. The customer can only legally go after Ken. He should and as soon as possible.
Steve,

I agree with you. Ken listed the products for sale and accepted payment in full for them. In doing so, he legally accepted full liability and is the responsible party. The part about keeping a profit is especially valid, which Ken did ( obviously, he has a "profit margin" ). When problems arise, Ken is the one who has to "make good" on the transaction and, if a customer wants a refund, it is his responsibility to come up with the funds to do so.

On the "flip side", I believe that Jim's motivation is to keep Ken in business and that his being held financially responsible ( full refunds ) might either put him out of business, bankrupt him, and/or get him sued. Whether any, or all, of those things occurred, Ken might decide it's not worth the hassle and go out of business. If Performance Hobbies went out of business, not only a Rocket Vendor would be lost, but a local, East Coast Motor Vendor, as well.

With all that said, Ken knew the risks, especially after dealing with Curtis for a long time. Ken is responsible for his business dealings with his customers, including providing a full refund, if items are not delivered or delivered in a timely manner. Ken must be held accountable, whatever the eventual outcome may be. I certainly hope that Ken does business with Curtis in a "professional" manner, with full record-keeping and invoices, rather than an informal, undocumented "cash & carry" manner. Ken is legally responsible to his customers and Curtis is legally responsible to Ken !

Dave F.

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TRF Supporter

#### Ez2cDave

##### Well-Known Member
Is Curtis Turner the only supplier of filament wound fiberglass tubes and nose cones? This appears to be an old problem . . .
It is, unfortunately, both an "old problem" and an "ongoing problem" . . .

As for him being the only supplier, I doubt it. With that said, who are the suppliers for the current "kit manufacturers" ?

Dave F.

#### crossfire

Steve,

I agree with you. Ken listed the products for sale and accepted payment in full for them. In doing so, he legally accepted full liability and is the responsible party. The part about keeping a profit is especially valid, which Ken did ( obviously, he has a "profit margin" ). When problems arise, Ken is the one who has to "make good" on the transaction and, if a customer wants a refund, it is his responsibility to come up with the funds to do so.

On the "flip side", I believe that Jim's motivation is to keep Ken in business and that his being held financially responsible ( full refunds ) might either put him out of business, bankrupt him, and/or get him sued. Whether any, or all, of those things occurred, Ken might decide it's not worth the hassle and go out of business. If Performance Hobbies went out of business, not only a Rocket Vendor would be lost, but a local, East Coast Motor Vendor, as well.

With all that said, Ken knew the risks, especially after dealing with Curtis for a long time. Ken is responsible for his business dealings with his customers, including providing a full refund, if items are not delivered or delivered in a timely manner. Ken must be held accountable, whatever the eventual outcome may be. I certainly hope that Ken does business with Curtis in a "professional" manner, with full record-keeping and invoices, rather than an informal, undocumented "cash & carry" manner. Ken is legally responsible to his customers and Curtis is legally responsible to Ken !

Dave F.
Dave all very good points. Has it ever been posted how many customers are still owed product? I can't believe it's that much money to put Ken out of business.

#### jimzcatz

##### Boss, Carolina Rocket Mafia
Steve,

I agree with you. Ken listed the products for sale and accepted payment in full for them. In doing so, he legally accepted full liability and is the responsible party. The part about keeping a profit is especially valid, which Ken did ( obviously, he has a "profit margin" ). When problems arise, Ken is the one who has to "make good" on the transaction and, if a customer wants a refund, it is his responsibility to come up with the funds to do so.

On the "flip side", I believe that Jim's motivation is to keep Ken in business and that his being held financially responsible ( full refunds ) might either put him out of business, bankrupt him, and/or get him sued. Whether any, or all, of those things occurred, Ken might decide it's not worth the hassle and go out of business. If Performance Hobbies went out of business, not only a Rocket Vendor would be lost, but a local, East Coast Motor Vendor, as well.

With all that said, Ken knew the risks, especially after dealing with Curtis for a long time. Ken is responsible for his business dealings with his customers, including providing a full refund, if items are not delivered or delivered in a timely manner. Ken must be held accountable, whatever the eventual outcome may be. I certainly hope that Ken does business with Curtis in a "professional" manner, with full record-keeping and invoices, rather than an informal, undocumented "cash & carry" manner. Ken is legally responsible to his customers and Curtis is legally responsible to Ken !

Dave F.
I cannot dispute any of that.

#### jimzcatz

##### Boss, Carolina Rocket Mafia
Curtis supplies Rocketman, Madcow, AMW, Mach1 and I'm sure others. What bites my biscuits is everyone gets their stuff and Ken gets screwed. Curtis uses funds from Ken to fill other orders. I have nothing against the vendors I listed, let me make that plain. Great respect.

#### crossfire

Curtis supplies Rocketman, Madcow, AMW, Mach1 and I'm sure others. What bites my biscuits is everyone gets their stuff and Ken gets screwed. Curtis uses funds from Ken to fill other orders. I have nothing against the vendors I listed, let me make that plain. Great respect.
Jim
So why does Ken get screwed? The other kit builders get there product. There must be something that we don't know going on between Ken and Curtis. The amount of kits Ken sold would not buy all that much supplies for Curtis. I do know one of the vendors dose not pay Curtis untill the product is setting in their shop. I just don't understand why Ken would pre pay Curtis. A very big mistake by Ken.

#### BF Rockets

##### Well-Known Member
Is there a Performance Hobbies black Friday sale this year?

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Is there a Performance Hobbies black Friday sale this year?
If there is, I'm not touching it with a 10-foot pole.
Not until Ken makes last year's participants whole!

All this sub-supplier blaming is lame - you are either a stand-up guy who delivers, or you are not.
If you can't deliver, at least refund people in full, with interest. No excuses.

#### Ez2cDave

##### Well-Known Member
Dave all very good points. Has it ever been posted how many customers are still owed product? I can't believe it's that much money to put Ken out of business.
If you had 100 people, owed $500 each, that is$50,000 in CASH . . .

Dave F.

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