PBS Nova - Look Who's Driving

Discussion in 'The Watering Hole' started by Winston, Oct 26, 2019.

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  1. Oct 26, 2019 #1

    Winston

    Winston

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    As self-driving cars take to the streets, we investigate how they work, and if they are safe.

    After years of anticipation, autonomous vehicles are now being tested on public roads around the world. As ambitious innovators race to develop what they see as the next high-tech pot of gold, some experts warn there are still daunting challenges ahead, including how to train artificial intelligence to be better than humans at making life-and-death decisions. How do self-driving cars work? How close are we to large-scale deployment of them? And will we ever be able to trust AI with our lives? (Premiered October 23, 2019)


    https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/video/look-whos-driving/
     
  2. Oct 26, 2019 #2

    ewomack

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    I almost watched this last night - after some of the horrible accidents reported with autonomous vehicles, I think they have a ways to go. AI is still also relatively in its infancy. I hope the engineers also consider the extreme hack-ability of an autonomous car. Current cars are hackable enough, but an autonomous would allow for more subtle hacking opportunities. Needless to say, I won't be getting in one anytime soon. Perhaps the program will change my mind?
     
  3. Oct 26, 2019 #3

    dhbarr

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    Robocars are already better than most of the drivers I routinely encounter. I look forward to reading a book on the way to work.
     
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  4. Oct 26, 2019 #4

    Winston

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    Watch the video. There are HUGE obstacles to making self-driving cars even remotely as capable as human drivers.
     
  5. Oct 26, 2019 #5

    kuririn

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  6. Oct 26, 2019 #6

    Winston

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    I've previously posted extensively about that here. Imagine the day when there isn't even a manual driving option and some person, group, or nation hacks such a system. Even being able to affect just a small geographical area will have a psychological effect on every other passenger in the US who might thereby restrict mobility by choice. Hacking was only mentioned in a few sentences at the end of that excellent documentary as it is an entire subject by itself.

    Another danger, the same as with a cashless society: the capability to end your ability to survive in a modern society with a few keystrokes.
     
  7. Oct 26, 2019 #7

    dhbarr

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    Are people getting better, or is technology getting better?

    If the former, disagree. If the latter, we're quibbling over semantics ( definition of better ) & timing ( before a drunk kills me while texting about the makeup they're putting on ). 1280px-US_traffic_deaths_per_VMT%2C_VMT%2C_per_capita%2C_and_total_annual_deaths.jpg

    EDIT: Full disclosure, I work for a company which has related interests.
     
  8. Oct 26, 2019 #8

    FredA

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    Interesting chart, but how can "deaths per million people" not always equal a million?
     
  9. Oct 26, 2019 #9

    Winston

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    On the hazards of full automation, from the outstanding series "Mr. Robot," a hacked fully automated apartment:


    BTW, since the villain in Mr. Robot is Chinese, we can be sure it isn't playing in China. In a flashback to the 80's, the villain and his sidekick are shown negotiating with IBM personnel who don't have an interpreter since he speaks English and they comment in Chinese that they will simply be stealing IBMs intellectual property.

    A more fanciful and comical automated dystopia in: X-Files Season 11 Episode 7 "Rm9sbG93ZXJz"
     
  10. Oct 26, 2019 #10

    Winston

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    Well, once again, watch the video for the surprising safety PER DRIVEN MILE using humans drivers. And after watching that show, I wish you the very best of luck in your pursuits. You'll need it.
     
  11. Oct 26, 2019 #11

    dhbarr

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    Well, the bottom is denoted in years, so....
     
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  12. Oct 26, 2019 #12

    dhbarr

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    I love PBS/NOVA & appreciate their reasoned & informative presentation. The chart I supplied demonstrates improving safety of US automobiles per Vehicle Miles Travel ( red & blue lines ).

    Do you think these improvements are due to improved technology or improved humanity?

    Which one has changed in the last 50 years? Which is more likely to change in the next 50 years?
     
  13. Oct 27, 2019 #13

    BBowmaster

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    I think it’s coming, but here in south-eastern Michigan it has a lot of obstacles indeed. The two most noteworthy: snow and road maintenance.

    My 2019 Mazda 3 (love my car) has a lane-keeping assist feature. I turned it off because it can’t always tell where the lane exists and gets too many false positives for correction. Patching stripes (dark black), tire marks (dark grey) and in rainy conditions, the drier tire tracks of the car in front of me; all have triggered corrective steering.

    And often I could drive right onto the shoulder without a beep because there’s no marking left over there from fading or crumbling erosion.

    And forget hacking, what about kids with a can of white spray paint?

    Definitely a long road ahead (pun thoroughly intended).
     
  14. Oct 27, 2019 #14

    ewomack

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    I would also consider that hacking. :D

    But these days, I worry more about kids with computers than kids with spray paint. The story of the 14 year old who hacked into the Polish Public Transportation system in 2008 is only one example: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/01/11/tram_hack/

    But I also agree that simple spray paint could do plenty of damage as well.
     
  15. Oct 27, 2019 #15

    John Taylor

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    Already most people can't even drive a manual transmission. Many now can't parallel park.
    If this keeps up the art of driving will go away.
     
  16. Oct 27, 2019 #16

    MClark

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    In Chandler, AZ near me the Waymo self driving cars are all over. They have one confirmed kill already.
    If one is in traffic I give it a lot of space, will not stay beside it.
     
  17. Oct 27, 2019 #17

    dhbarr

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    Wasn't that Uber?
     
  18. Oct 27, 2019 #18

    MClark

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    I think you are correct.
    It's all The Rise of the Machines.

    M
     
  19. Oct 27, 2019 #19

    K'Tesh

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    I can do that already... When I ride the bus.
     
  20. Oct 27, 2019 #20

    dhbarr

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    Uber & Lyft don't run from where I work to where I live; let alone taxis, buses, light rail, magtrain. It's a pretty drive, I just dislike it at the end of a big workday.
     
  21. Oct 27, 2019 #21

    K'Tesh

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    Carpool?
     
  22. Oct 27, 2019 #22

    BDB

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    I have a Honda Clarity, which has self-driving features. It’s a ways from being fully autonomous. (It’s level 2, according to the classification system in the show.) But I really like it. It has already saved me from one fender bender.
     
  23. Oct 27, 2019 #23

    ewomack

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    From what I'm seeing, which might be limited, we seem to be in the era of "driver assisted" AI, but no where yet near "fully autonomous" AI. I don't doubt that we'll get there, I just don't think that it's as developed and as ready for the current mass market as some sources claim.
     
  24. Oct 27, 2019 #24

    Marc_G

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    A million people will always have a million deaths eventually, but the chart is about vehicle related deaths, which represents only a small part of total deaths.
     
  25. Oct 28, 2019 #25

    FredA

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    Yep - know that, but that's not how the chart is labeled.
     
  26. Oct 28, 2019 #26

    dhbarr

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    The bottom axis is clearly in years....
     
  27. Oct 28, 2019 #27

    FredA

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    Millions die every year.
    Everyone dies.
    Without the chart SPECIFYING that these are MV-Deaths/year that chart is wrong.
    DEALTHS/Million or DEATHS/Zillion is always 1:1 EVERY YEAR.
    All PEOPLE DIE.
     
  28. Oct 28, 2019 #28

    dhbarr

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  29. Oct 28, 2019 #29

    grouch

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    Nope, not gonna ever. If you are not in control, you are not in control.
     
  30. Oct 28, 2019 #30

    Winston

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    Oh, I don't doubt that completely autonomous vehicles will eventually be made safe, just not nearly as soon as too many seem to be predicting. Once they are networked together and all human drivers are no longer on the roads that will be much easier to accomplish, but then comes the worst of the hacking threat because of the very high value of the exploit.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2019

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