Paypal Friends and Family and VENMO Warning.

[gdjsky01]

Well thats the point Roger. Unless people turn in people who break the rules, nothing changes. All these shitesters charging extra break rules. Thing is they are small fry. So who knows what PP might do? Probably nothing. Whereas businesses which depend on PP as a common payment method play by the rules and build in the 3% that credit cards and PP charge.

I would turn in every listing I found that says add 3% for paypal if I thought it would make a difference.

 

[cwbullet]

Paypal has to make a living. I personally am glad they are around.

 

[troj]

You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as a payment method. You may charge a handling fee in connection with the sale of goods or services as long as the handling fee does not operate as a surcharge and is not higher than the handling fee you charge for non-PayPal transactions. {/quote]

When someone asks for extra for non-friends & family, they're not charging a surcharge *for accepting PayPal*. They're taking PayPal either way, it's just that if you don't send it via one PayPal payment method, they are charging a surcharge. It's a nit, but it's a relevant nit.

That said, when I sell stuff, I *don't* insist on F&F. I accept that PayPal is going to take a fee, and that's okay.

 

[tim cubbedge]

Sellers are not allowed to do that

Just because they are not allowed doesn't mean they don't do it. It happens all the time!

 

[jadebox]

If a non-PayPal order is free of the surcharge, then requiring a surcharge for any PayPal orders would be in violation of the rule inquired. And, imposing a fee on non-F&F payments is a way of asking customers to use F&F which is not allowed.

 

[dr wogz]

look at the fees they charge for international.. hate using them, either commercially or personally..

 

[manixFan]

Sellers are not allowed to do that.

These were not by established merchants, but by folks selling stuff here in the yard sale or on similar forums. I wouldn’t expect a real garage sale to take a credit card, so I think that same attitude prevails even in online 'for sale' forums. You're a vendor, I expect you to take merchant payment. But if I sell my Interceptor-G kit for $100 and ask for FnF payment to avoid the extra fee, is PayPal coming after me for that? Are you going to report me? What would PayPal do if you did?

If someone has a long posting history here and is selling in the yard sale and I feel like I 'know' them, I'm happy to do FnF for a purchase. But in other instances the protection that comes from PayPal is worth me paying the 3% as a form of insurance and keeping things on a friendly basis for the future.

I've owned a small business for over 25 years and have paid my share of merchant fees, you'd think I would avoid them at all costs. But buying from a fellow TRF member isn't the same as buying from a vendor, at least in my mind. To misquote a phrase: we all 'pays our money and takes our chances',


Tony

 

[timster68]

Thanks for the warning - it looks like I dodged a scam. A brand new user to the forum recommended I contact someone who is not a member of the forum and the PayPal account he wants me to use is outside the country. Their English is a little too formal and a bit suspicious. On top of that who uses their secretary to ship out rocket kits?

 

[EvryThngIsAOk]

This guy is a scammer who hits up specialty forums like this one or even Dodge diesel or Jeeps, opens new accounts, trolls the wanted adds and then sends out pm offer you what you want to buy.
Report him to the adminhe hits me up anout twice a months

 

[mrwalsh85]

Thanks for the warning - it looks like I dodged a scam. A brand new user to the forum recommended I contact someone who is not a member of the forum and the PayPal account he wants me to use is outside the country. Their English is a little too formal and a bit suspicious. On top of that who uses their secretary to ship out rocket kits?

Is there a screenname available?

 

[timster68]

The screenname is mariorob.

I hate to say, I was in the process of paying them, until I had to pay to send it out of the country. Also, I don't know anyone in the US that says "kindly".

 

[Antares JS]

I got one of those as well, but the fact that he had just joined the forum that same day and offered me the item I was looking for with the *exact* wording I used in my wanted thread were all red flags. I deleted the message and didn't think about it again.

 

[tim cubbedge]

The screenname is mariorob.

I hate to say, I was in the process of paying them, until I had to pay to send it out of the country. Also, I don't know anyone in the US that says "kindly".

Shouldn’t be contacting anyone anytime soon.

 

[NOLA_BAR]

I got PM from “mariorob” as well offering the exact item I was looking for. Glad he is gone!

 

[Sparky]

All those PMs are gone and that member is no longer a member.

Thank you all for reporting that person. It helped us check it out and do something about it.

 

[rfjustin]

The screenname is mariorob.

I hate to say, I was in the process of paying them, until I had to pay to send it out of the country. Also, I don't know anyone in the US that says "kindly".

Thank you kindly.

 

[Ulexis]

I'm pretty sure this guy is trolling the want adds offering the holly grail. I haven't contacted him, but I would be aware of his false promises.

 

[cwbullet]

If it sounds like A terrific deal you can’t pass up, the odds of rip off go up.

I'm pretty sure this guy is trolling the want adds offering the holly grail. I haven't contacted him, but I would be aware of his false promises.

View attachment 457049

 

[K'Tesh]

Thanks for the warning - it looks like I dodged a scam. A brand new user to the forum recommended I contact someone who is not a member of the forum and the PayPal account he wants me to use is outside the country. Their English is a little too formal and a bit suspicious. On top of that who uses their secretary to ship out rocket kits?

Not that I send out rocket kits from here in China, but I *HAVE* to use the services of my school's secretary (or occasionally my boss) as the local shipping companies' employees don't have a very good command of the English language. Then again, if I ever did, I'd not demand F&F payment, but I might ask that the person adjust their payment to make sure I get the amount agreed upon (probably wouldn't, but if I was being really anal at the moment).

 

[cerving]

Every once in awhile I have to pay an individual for something, I add 3% to the price and send it as "payment for goods for services". They get all their money, and PayPal gets their share. If I don't want to pay the 3%, then I probably don't want what they're selling me, either.

 

[gdjsky01]

I use paypal (PP) for the convenience. They provide a service. I have used it since they started up.
All merchants that take CCs pay the CC company a fee on every transaction.
You may not care, but I figure that A) The store hopes you be a repeat customer and buying now is good business, B) The store or seller has baked into the price the fee, and C) you use your CC statement to keep track of you expenditures.

Anyone that says F&F only, or says PP add 3%, I skip (most of the time - unless it truly is a friend or family). If I don't pay the fee I have no recourse when I don't get what I should have. I have opened disputes and got my money back.

It is, or used to be, a violation of PP T&Cs to ask for the fee. I've turned in some people. I doubt PP does anything about it as we are small fries. POST THE PRICE YOU WANT regardless of payment.

 

[afadeev]

I use paypal (PP) for the convenience. They provide a service. I have used it since they started up.
All merchants that take CCs pay the CC company a fee on every transaction.

That's all good, except for the part where PP adds another layer of fees on top of what your CC charges, for those of us who fund PP transactions with a CC.
It may, or may not, be worth it for you, but the fees definitely add up for the seller.

POST THE PRICE YOU WANT regardless of payment.

That's not practical, or desirable.
Transaction costs do matter, as does the integrity and complexity of the transaction process.

As a buyer, would you really want to get paid in beaver belts, coconuts, or deal with an over-generous Nigerian prince that is ready to pay 10x the asking prices as long as you do him one small favor ... ?

Anyone that says F&F only, or says PP add 3%, I skip (most of the time - unless it truly is a friend or family). If I don't pay the fee I have no recourse when I don't get what I should have. I have opened disputes and got my money back.

You can certainly do as you please.
As a heads up - the insurance services that you value is already provided by your credit card (CC) company.
You are really paying for 2x the insurance, and are imposing those costs onto the seller.

a

 

[cerving]

PP charges us 3% for their service, it's the going rate for card/online processing. It's the cost of doing business through them. If you use PayPal invoicing (like we do), the vendor only gets hit with the 3% PP fee... there's no secondary fee from the CC company, in fact we have no idea how you paid the invoice. We're totally isolated from your payment mechanism. We like it that way... no PCI to deal with, it's PP's responsibility not ours. Vendors that take CC's directly have to pay the 3% fee to the CC company, AND they have to deal with a whole bunch of PCI regulatory stuff.

If somebody gets some malware on their computer and it turns their computer into a website-attacking bot to get at the vendor's CC database, and they manage to compromise the web site, by law you have to notify every customer you've dealt with that their CC and/or PID data may have been compromised. No, thank you... no way we are going to take CC's directly and have to deal with that possibility. I'm more than happy to give PP their 3% because their service is worth a lot more than that to me, trying to skip out of it by paying through F&F is a fool's bargain.

 

[BigMacDaddy]

I have bought (and sold) several thousand $$ worth of items in forums using F&F but only from active, long-term members - forums and groups can provide the reputation / trust mechanism and can provide some "insurance" (people who cheat, get banned which is a major issue for people who have built a reputation on the forums / groups). Some buy/sell groups have moderation policies setup which is part of the value they offer to members.

I have also done lots of Goods and Services transactions and have even done paypal-backed trades when I was trading higher value lots with people I did not know (sometimes even paying the paypal fees on both ends just to have insurance on a trade that seemed too good to be true).

I have also occasionally had to put through claims on Ebay as well as directly with Paypal for transactions gone badly (with forums it was mostly poor packaging that resulted in damaged products from shipping). I take lots of photos of products before shipping myself as well as of damaged boxes that arrive before I open them and multiple pictures as I unpack or pack.

Need to be smart, but if you gauge you can trust someone (either because you know them or because of other mechanisms) it is nice to avoid the fees (which are closer to 4%) by using F&F.

Note: My past purchases in forums / Facebook groups have all been with model trains but I do not think the hobbies are all that different when it comes to issues related to this topic.

 

[gdjsky01]

That's all good, except for the part where PP adds another layer of fees on top of what your CC charges, for those of us who fund PP transactions with a CC.
It may, or may not, be worth it for you, but the fees definitely add up for the seller.



That's not practical, or desirable.
Transaction costs do matter, as does the integrity and complexity of the transaction process.

As a buyer, would you really want to get paid in beaver belts, coconuts, or deal with an over-generous Nigerian prince that is ready to pay 10x the asking prices as long as you do him one small favor ... ?



You can certainly do as you please.
As a heads up - the insurance services that you value is already provided by your credit card (CC) company.
You are really paying for 2x the insurance, and are imposing those costs onto the seller.

a

Whatever dude. I suppose you are wealthy. So you you have no use for a company that somehow makes a profit.. Good on you!
The rest of us? We'll soldier on.

 

[Rocketteer]

I often pay the protection fees myself. It's an option if the seller insist on friends and family.

 

[lakeroadster]

This thread is about giving a heads up to members about bad business practices.... and that's great.

Do your due diligence. If your using PayPal, have you looked into their past practices? If dealing with companies that share your values is meaningful to you, do some research on PayPal.

I bailed on them years ago...

 

[mh9162013]

An additional thing to consider is that using F&F doesn't count towards the $600 threshold when it comes to generating a 1099.

If your received more than $600 (or it might be $600 or more) in a given tax year in your Paypal account through the goods and services option you'll get a 1099 from Paypal. So when you file your taxes, you'll get the honor of explaining to the IRS why those transactions didn't generate taxable income. And if they did generate taxable income, you get the chance to show your expenses for a tax deduction...maybe. Because income and expenses from a hobby aren't treated the same way as income and expenses from a business.

Confused? Yeah, even more reason to avoid having to deal with a 1099.

TL;DR: don't accept payment via goods and services through Paypal unless you like preparing and filing taxes.

 

[cwbullet]

I have been watching Facebook marketplace and have seen a few scams. I report them early.

 

[Hobie1dog]

I got ripped off 6 months ago on Facebook Marketplace buying a batch of rocket motors and using the F&F feature. Thinking I would be a nice guy to my fellow rocketeer, I sent $80 and never got them. I contacted the Police in his town and they said he had a history of criminal activity. Using this feature, you get zero protection, zero money back.