Pattern for a PAPER "PARACHUTE PROTECTOR . . .
Dave F.
Dave F.
PAPER "PARACHUTE PROTECTORS" . . .
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I've often wondered if those were made from ordinary bond paper or if they were something more exotic.
I often fold the last square of wadding I put into a model into something kind of like this. It seems to help with plastic 'chute longevity a bit.
I often fold the last square of wadding I put into a model into something kind of like this. It seems to help with plastic 'chute longevity a bit.
lakeroadster
When in doubt... build hell-for-stout!
Thanks for posting this Dave. It appears to be sized for a BT-50 rocket?
I've been contemplating making some of these out of non-flammable crepe paper instead of flammable paper. Basically similar to a shotgun shell wad.
Like a tulip flower to protect the recovery device.
I've been contemplating making some of these out of non-flammable crepe paper instead of flammable paper. Basically similar to a shotgun shell wad.
Like a tulip flower to protect the recovery device.
I agree about this being fo BT-50 . . . It can easily be scaled for other body tube diameters or desired length.
Dave F.
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I use the orange colored wadding (Quest Q-Jets) to wrap my chute for protection in small diameter rockets. Also the Top Flight 3” x 3” firewall protectors are nice in up to 1” diameter rockets. Dino Chutes makes a petal protector for 2.6”, 3” & 4” diameter rockets.
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Where and when is this from?
James Duffy
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Here's set of photos from the NASM archives that show G. Harry Stine inserting one of these protectors into a Rock-a-Chute. In the middle photo you can see a formed protector sticking out of his shirt pocket.
Note the date on the envelope from which the photos were removed. Placed in the timeline of the Stine-Carlisle correspondence, this may be Harry's very first model rocket.
James
Note the date on the envelope from which the photos were removed. Placed in the timeline of the Stine-Carlisle correspondence, this may be Harry's very first model rocket.
James
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That design was in the 2nd edition of the HoMR.
lakeroadster
When in doubt... build hell-for-stout!
It would make sense that something like those 'chute protectors would be the way to go in the Rock-a-Chute Mark II as G. Harry has in his hands in those photos as the model is pretty short, so enough tissue-style wadding would take up a significant percentage of the length available between the top of the motor and the base of the nose cone shoulder.
This is based on my building and flying some of the Semroc reproductions of this model, in which I have to fold the 'chute in thirds rather than in half to make it work. Fortunately the 'chutes Semroc used to produce for these were very thin yet flexible and durable, making them amenable to this sort of thing.
Added: in answer to @lakeroadster's question, the Mark II (as repro'd by Semroc, anyway) used 1.0 inch diameter tubing, so very close to BT-50-sized, yes.
This is based on my building and flying some of the Semroc reproductions of this model, in which I have to fold the 'chute in thirds rather than in half to make it work. Fortunately the 'chutes Semroc used to produce for these were very thin yet flexible and durable, making them amenable to this sort of thing.
Added: in answer to @lakeroadster's question, the Mark II (as repro'd by Semroc, anyway) used 1.0 inch diameter tubing, so very close to BT-50-sized, yes.
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I seem to remember that in the early days BT-50 was the biggest tube that Estes made, but the BT-60 came along very soon after this.
Sooner Boomer
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I think you could up/down size these, cut them out, and coat just the area where it says "INTO MISSILE BODY" with white glue (making sure the coated section goes next to engine).
lakeroadster
When in doubt... build hell-for-stout!
Living in a part of the country where forest fires are a reality, using anything other than flame resistant material for these would be a fools errand.
Sooner Boomer
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White glue *will* make them flameproof (flame resistant - even Estes wadding will burn).
lakeroadster
When in doubt... build hell-for-stout!
My experience tells me that if you coated the paper with enough white glue to truly make it "flame proof", it would be so stiff that it would be questionable for this application.
Crepe paper seems the most cost effective material... but maybe not.
@Sooner Boomer Sounds like a fun project to do some R&D on?
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hcmbanjo
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I've been using a variation on the "Parachute Wrapper" for years -
A smaller square is wrapped around the base of the chute to peel away after it leaves the top of the body tube.
This small wrapper is used in addition to the regular wadding beneath it.
http://modelrocketbuilding.blogspot.com/2011/07/before-wadding-there-was.html
A smaller square is wrapped around the base of the chute to peel away after it leaves the top of the body tube.
This small wrapper is used in addition to the regular wadding beneath it.
http://modelrocketbuilding.blogspot.com/2011/07/before-wadding-there-was.html
Sooner Boomer
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I was thinking that. I'm trying to think of a way to try this out without burning motors. How much BP (ejection charge) do Estes motors have? I'm guessing you'd need different sized body tubes (start with just one), and test using a parachute (or a substitute), and a nosecone.
lakeroadster
When in doubt... build hell-for-stout!
You'd be surprised at how strong the force is. You'd need a wad for each BT size for a good snug slip fit..
beeblebrox
8 C6-0, 12 D11-9, 20 D20-0, 20 E5-0, 3 Cinerocs
Don't use wadding at all... build every rocket with a BAFFLE system. It works great, I have made them for as small a tube as BT-50.
Here is an Apogee Newsletter with some info and ideas. https://apogeerockets.com/education/downloads/Newsletter129.pdf
I have made paper tube type baffles and 3D Printed baffles. AeroTech kits use the stainless mesh system. The 3D printed are the easiest to deal with. Contact me if you want one to try for a nominal fee to cover shipping and a couple bucks for materials. (I am not in the business of manufacturing large quantities of stuff to sell) If you like the item you can clone it, if you have a 3d printer I can send you the STL files. Specify tube size, up to 2.6" max. Larger ones are do-able but would then have a big jump in cost... The below design not really suitable for big high power rockets, changes for the shock line anchor is the main issue. My 4" baffle has been used a dozen times with no issues, and it is PLA not PETG...
This design is to be bonded inside of a tube coupler for whatever airframe you have. This allows to easily fillet the "Wings" of the baffle before bonding the top piece, then glue the unit into the airframe either up inside or use as a coupler assembly to allow access to the area below the baffle. (A future idea so I can get to an altimeter for ejection placed below the baffle.) The hole thru the middle is for a Kevlar shock line. Make a big knot at the bottom, then cover the knot with RTV...
Another bonus of the baffle: Place forward as far as feasible for parachute fitment. This will move your CG forward...
Here is an Apogee Newsletter with some info and ideas. https://apogeerockets.com/education/downloads/Newsletter129.pdf
I have made paper tube type baffles and 3D Printed baffles. AeroTech kits use the stainless mesh system. The 3D printed are the easiest to deal with. Contact me if you want one to try for a nominal fee to cover shipping and a couple bucks for materials. (I am not in the business of manufacturing large quantities of stuff to sell) If you like the item you can clone it, if you have a 3d printer I can send you the STL files. Specify tube size, up to 2.6" max. Larger ones are do-able but would then have a big jump in cost... The below design not really suitable for big high power rockets, changes for the shock line anchor is the main issue. My 4" baffle has been used a dozen times with no issues, and it is PLA not PETG...
This design is to be bonded inside of a tube coupler for whatever airframe you have. This allows to easily fillet the "Wings" of the baffle before bonding the top piece, then glue the unit into the airframe either up inside or use as a coupler assembly to allow access to the area below the baffle. (A future idea so I can get to an altimeter for ejection placed below the baffle.) The hole thru the middle is for a Kevlar shock line. Make a big knot at the bottom, then cover the knot with RTV...
Another bonus of the baffle: Place forward as far as feasible for parachute fitment. This will move your CG forward...
lakeroadster
When in doubt... build hell-for-stout!
There is no space for such a design in the rockets being discussed.
Some time ago, I'd posted a response to a question about how to extend the life of paper/cardboard air-framed rockets, and I noted that I'd purchased a roll of fireproof paper that I use to create a rolled cylinder, then slide it down the interior length of the airframe to afford protection against ejection gases. This same material could be used to create the pouches detailed in this thread. The product is manufactured by ULINE, uline .com 1-800-295-5510. The roll is 36" wide and 300' long, so you'll have far more than you'll ever use (I'd think), but maybe a club purchase or co-purchasing with friends may work. The cost is $95.00 plus shipping, total 123.41. Certainly not inexpensive, but it may be an option.
Jim
Jim
I'll have to make and try a few of these the next time I launch for the kids.
But I'll make them up ahead of time and give them a couple coats of TiteBond on the bottom to ensure flame ups don't occur.
Thanks for posting! I have never seen this before.
But I'll make them up ahead of time and give them a couple coats of TiteBond on the bottom to ensure flame ups don't occur.
Thanks for posting! I have never seen this before.
hball55
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Yeah, otherwise I’d think you’d have a potential fire starter. Not good if you are in California. Looks like Lake Tahoe is in trouble.
The same pattern could be used for cutting out THIN Nomex cloth protectors ( attach to the Shock Cord and re-use ).
Dave F.
Dave F.
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The paper chute protector had lapsed out of common use by 1971 when I really got started, but they were definitely just regular bond paper. With the modern requirement for flame resistant wadding, they aren't kosher now unless fireproofed or used with additional wadding. It definitely might be fun to play with some flameproofed ones since they take up the least tube length of any design in existence. Foam plugs as used in competition would be the second shortest - they only need to be a centimeter or two thick.
JonathanOtt
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For some reason I was thinking about these protectors a couple of days ago. I thought about making up a batch of them, laying them out in the back yard and spraying them with the chemical mix and letting them dry. I even wondered if you could glue 2 of them together with a small dab of glue in the middle, placing them to the petals were staggered, to get better protection. For something simpler I was wondering about spraying paper towels and letting them dry.
I've heard people talk about flameproof crepe paper, is it available in large enough sizes to be used as this type of protector? I've only noticed it in narrow rolls.
I've heard people talk about flameproof crepe paper, is it available in large enough sizes to be used as this type of protector? I've only noticed it in narrow rolls.
shockie
High Plains Rocketeer
This was originally invented(?) By Richard Keller one of owners of MMI, an old college friend of GH Stine.
Estes provided the same design on their old engine sheets.
Estes was sued in 1966 in the Colorado Federal District for patent infringement by Orville Carlise.
He lost.
For the rest of the story:
https://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showpost.php?p=252498&postcount=6
In the past I've made these out of the soft nomex paper, type 411. Worked great.
Estes provided the same design on their old engine sheets.
Estes was sued in 1966 in the Colorado Federal District for patent infringement by Orville Carlise.
He lost.
For the rest of the story:
https://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showpost.php?p=252498&postcount=6
In the past I've made these out of the soft nomex paper, type 411. Worked great.
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