Paint job gone wrong...

[Retrospace101]

What you are dealing with is paint biting

 

[Retrospace101]

So after four coats of white spray paint, I started to highlight my PML Spitfire with red spray paint...and it started to bubble immediately after I started spraying the red coat. Does anyone know why and where would I go from here. It looks like a chemical reaction. Both spray paints are from the same company. Any input would be most appreciated.

Geoff

This is an example of paint biting.
It is identical to yours (almost)

 

[neil_w]

Although when I was taping for the red color I couldn’t help but notice a strong fresh paint smell.

Although as I've said the sniff test is not reliable with use of these paints, it really sounds like (and crinkled like) the paint just needed more time before the red top coat.

 

[Nytrunner]

...I’m thinking you’re right. I read somewhere else that when using different color spray paints, to “stay” in one “system” but I didn’t think I had to stay in a “system” within a “system”. I’m thinking that when the paint dries I’m going to give it a light sanding with 320 sandpaper and try and apply Painters Touch white as my base coat.

Geoff

However, if you let the wrinkles dry and then sand them off, you'll have an amazing and unique crackle painting. Sand it down, clear coat over it, now you have a rocket And a story!

Although as I've said the sniff test is not reliable with use of these paints, it really sounds like (and crinkled like) the paint just needed more time before the red top coat.

And a thinner base coat apparently

 

[bobbyg23]

That is tight, and not within the recommended timing (<1 hour or >48 hours). And four coats of white base coat could have been a thicker layer that needed even more time.

I'm definitely going with: white needed more time to dry before red was applied.

No clue about compatibility between Painter's Touch and American Accents; easiest way to answer it would be to contact Rustoleum. They will answer (not always quickly, but eventually). I'd be *surprised* if that was source of the incompatibility.


HEY HEY HEY YOU SAID YOU WERE GONNA STAY OUT OF IT

Sorry, my bad.

 

[gcanroc]

What you are dealing with is paint biting

View attachment 413333

...so why didn’t my last coat of base coat “crinkle”??? When I say “four” coats, they were lightly applied base coats. FWIW I would suspect that there wasn’t enough curing time before the red paint was applied, but again I think the last coat was applied maybe Tuesday morning if not Monday. I live in Warwick RI

Geoff

 

[Retrospace101]

...so why didn’t my last coat of base coat “crinkle”??? When I say “four” coats, they were lightly applied base coats. FWIW I would suspect that there wasn’t enough curing time before the red paint was applied, but again I think the last coat was applied maybe Tuesday morning if not Monday. I live in Warwick RI

Geoff
[/QUOTE/]

Sorry, Apologies. I don't think I read it closely enough, on the other hand it just may have been curing time.

 

[Retrospace101]

...so why didn’t my last coat of base coat “crinkle”??? When I say “four” coats, they were lightly applied base coats. FWIW I would suspect that there wasn’t enough curing time before the red paint was applied, but again I think the last coat was applied maybe Tuesday morning if not Monday. I live in Warwick RI

Geoff

Sorry, I don't think I read it closely, and please ignore the message I sent above, It was an accident. On the other hand, it looks like curing time, based on the info.

 

[gcanroc]

Sorry, I don't think I read it closely, and please ignore the message I sent above, It was an accident. On the other hand, it looks like curing time, based on the info.

Np Retrospace101 I think you offered a very viable point and it could be paint biting as you pointed out. My question is: does “paint biting” happens as the paint dries?? Because this phenomenon happened instantaneously as I applied the red paint. So it’s either a curing issue or a paint compatibility issue. I plan on finding out.

 

[Retrospace101]

Np Retrospace101 I think you offered a very viable point and it could be paint biting as you pointed out. My question is: does “paint biting” happens as the paint dries?? Because this phenomenon happened instantaneously as I applied the red paint. So it’s either a curing issue or a paint compatibility issue. I plan on finding out.

https://www.autorepairsdirect.com.au/blog/fixing-a-fry-up
This auto site says that it can happen after 3 base coats. I think earlier you reported 4 base coats...very similar.

From NJ

 

[Retrospace101]

https://www.autorepairsdirect.com.au/blog/fixing-a-fry-up
This auto site says that it can happen after 3 base coats. I think earlier you reported 4 base coats...very similar.

From NJ

Another guess is that maybe the cans “AA” and “PT” had slightly different thinner or some ingredient difference.

 

[neil_w]

I’ve submitted to Rustoleum the question of compatibility between AA and PT. I’ll be very surprised if they’re not compatible but we’ll see.

 

[gcanroc]

After returning home from work today and giving my rocket and a second look. I think I’m going to concede to two things:

1) I believe this is “paint biting” as diagnosed by Retrospace101

2) That maybe I didn’t give it a full 48 hours to cure as first identified by neil_w

I have some sanding to do, and heaven knows lots of us have plenty of time to do it. Thx for all the input, I’ll keep this thread updated as to my outcome.

Geoff

 

[David Schwantz]

I have never used the sniff test. I spray 2 part automotive only. My test is, even if it feels dry to the touch, if you leave an oil print from a finger, it is not ready to handle or recoat.

 

[gcanroc]

I have never used the sniff test. I spray 2 part automotive only. My test is, even if it feels dry to the touch, if you leave an oil print from a finger, it is not ready to handle or recoat.

Timing is everything. Recoat window for Rusto 2x is within one hour or after 48 hours. And they're not kidding.

My "top" coat was beyond dry. But it might have not been within the 48 hour window as noted by neil_w. I guess the moral of the story is READ the instructions, that's what's great about this hobby, you never stop learning.

I've started to sand out the "paint biting" and WOW is it thick. Thick to a point where I start with 100 grit sandpaper and then work my way from there. Once I'm finish with the sanding I'm just going to repaint the red areas with my original Rust-0leum A.A. white spray and start over...and oh yeah did I mention I'm going to follow the instruction on the can this time . Here in RI it's been a really crappy April not to mention the lock-down so it'll keep my mind off of other things. Again thx for all the great comments, love this forum, stay safe and we'll see everyone at the launch pad.

Geoff

 

[Retrospace101]

My "top" coat was beyond dry. But it might have not been within the 48 hour window as noted by neil_w. I guess the moral of the story is READ the instructions, that's what's great about this hobby, you never stop learning.

I've started to sand out the "paint biting" and WOW is it thick. Thick to a point where I start with 100 grit sandpaper and then work my way from there. Once I'm finish with the sanding I'm just going to repaint the red areas with my original Rust-0leum A.A. white spray and start over...and oh yeah did I mention I'm going to follow the instruction on the can this time . Here in RI it's been a really crappy April not to mention the lock-down so it'll keep my mind off of other things. Again thx for all the great comments, love this forum, stay safe and we'll see everyone at the launch pad.

Geoff

Awesome! Looks like you are pulling it together, hope to see good results, I am working on my Patriot at the Moment.

 

[Greg Furtman]

From Amazon...the MixKwik attachment for your Sawzall/reciprocating saw. Runs about $25.

 

[ksaves2]

What I do is wait a few minutes between color coats before re-spraying. I’ll wait several days before wet sanding and after that, let the rocket sit for a minimum of a week before even considering shooting the clear coat. This is if I want a really shiny rocket. If it’s between colors I wait 5 days with the rocket drying in a dry environment. Yeah my remedy is leisurely but I too was burned in the past with bubbling paint and this is what I did to avoid it. In addition, I try to scope out that the color coat and clear coat are compatible. If I’m doing a “beater” rocket, I just shoot the color over primer and if I get a drip, so be it. With wet sanding and clear coating I can carefully correct the drips with the sandpaper before shooting the clear. Takes a long time to get the shiny auto finish paint job using enamels.

 

[CalebJ]

With a smaller rocket, is it possible to bake it at 180-200* to accelerate paint curing (when the wife's away)?

 

[neil_w]

With a smaller rocket, is it possible to bake it at 180-200* to accelerate paint curing (when the wife's away)?

Dunno what the ideal baking temperature would be, but putting it up on the dashboard of your car in the sun would do it. A hot dashboard is great for all kinds of things, like de-crystallizing honey.

Of course, your car might smell very bad afterward. And the oven... well I'd surmise that paint smell would linger there for a while. I'd be out on the street in no time flat.

 

[CalebJ]

Good point about the fumes. Maybe the dehydrator I've got in the basement might work for the really small stuff. Good convection fan and it can do about 14x14x10.

 

[Nytrunner]

Could make a curing box with a couple incandescents in it. Like composite guys do for curing their layups sometimes

 

[modeltrains]

Interesting to see this here now given what was begun on April 22, 2020 9:57 PM CDT in the problem solving section of a garden railway model train forum, https://largescalecentral.com/forums/topic/30528/rust-oleum-paints
"I sprayed the first coat and then waited for 24 hours before spraying the second coat but when I did the paint crinkled and looked like it had been put in paint stripper. ... The can mentions either respraying within 1 hour or waiting for 48 hours before applying a clear coat but nothing about just re coating. "

 

[neil_w]

"I sprayed the first coat and then waited for 24 hours before spraying the second coat but when I did the paint crinkled and looked like it had been put in paint stripper. ... The can mentions either respraying within 1 hour or waiting for 48 hours before applying a clear coat but nothing about just re coating. "

Well that is a pretty straightforward case of not understanding the instructions.

 

[BSNW]

Whenever I paint over paint....especially when there is a thicker base coat, I always sand the base coat to further let the paint gas out. I let that sit for a day or two before I top coat. I also do this with primer.
Hope this helps
Andrew

 

[BSNW]

Also...unless you spray "wet on wet" meaning re-coat right before or a few minutes after tack.....ALWAYS wait to full cure (week or more) before repainting. Not forgetting to sand it a few days prior to help the paint gas out even more.
Andrew

 

[Retrospace101]

anyways, What is the current status?
Any other builds worth sharing?

 

[neil_w]

Here is the word from Rustoleum regarding the different paint lines:

Our Industrial High Performance Enamel will have superior durability, coverage and performance when compared to the UltraCover Painters Touch or American Accents sprays. Our High Performance Enamels also contain rust inhibitive components which will not be found in the other two lines. For superior corrosion resistance and performance, the High Performance Enamel would be the best selection.

Our Painter's Touch and American Accents lines have similar chemistries and uses, however they do have different color palettes.

So, American Accents and Painter's Touch should have no compatibility problems.

 

[gcanroc]

Moving right along...this attempt to paint my PML Spitfire with Rustoleum paints is turning into a lesson in “paint curing“. Timeline: Thursday 4/23 8:00 a.m. my first experience in “paint gripping“ (see first post). After sanding the dried paint gripping, I apply another coat Saturday 4/25 at 7:30 p.m. 60 hours after the the red coat was applied. Still paint gripping. So I’m going to sand this again and wait till Sunday 5/3 ( hopefully warm and dry here in RI) and try again.

 

[Nytrunner]

Whats the humidity?