Paint job gone wrong...

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gcanroc

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So after four coats of white spray paint, I started to highlight my PML Spitfire with red spray paint...and it started to bubble immediately after I started spraying the red coat. Does anyone know why and where would I go from here. It looks like a chemical reaction. Both spray paints are from the same company. Any input would be most appreciated.

Geoff
 

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Donnager

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How long did you wait between coats? Some of these have a lot of solvent that takes a while to evaporate. If the bottom coat wasn't fully cured, a wet top coat can cause this.
 

neil_w

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Timing is everything. Recoat window for Rusto 2x is within one hour or after 48 hours. And they're not kidding.

Exactly how long after your first coat of white did you apply your first coat of red?
 

cerving

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I've had that happen with Rustoleum 2X too, you need to be careful not to put it on too thick and give it about 15 mins between coats. Otherwise, this is THE hardware store rattle can to use... it goes on very nicely and doesn't run nearly as easily as the Krylon paints.
 

fyrwrxz

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You did not state how long you waited between the white coats or the red coat. If the white coats were fresh (i.e. uncured) then 4 coats could have been just one thick coat, homogeneous. If you applied the red on top of that without it curing, then the ‘outgassing’ of the volatiles (vehicle for the pigments) would still be flashing off. You have inadvertently tried to seal off the white coat(s) and are seeing that bubble thru the overcoat of red. A good test for curing is the sniff test. There should be no smell when you put your nose right next to the rocket. Even thin coats need to cure, and being ‘dry’ or not tacky does not mean it has outgassed completely. It can take literally weeks to paint a multi coloured rocket, as each coat has to dry completely before the next is added. Truly sorry this has happened to you. I had a set of fins just last week I had to strip and repaint. I didn’t like the coverage, so tried to add another coat too soon. We all live and learn. Good luck, mate. The bird looks salvagable and will live to fly another day. Ad Astra!
 

neil_w

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A good test for curing is the sniff test. There should be no smell when you put your nose right next to the rocket.
As I've said many times before, the sniff test does not work for Rusto 2x, or else you'd never finish painting a rocket. It continues to smell for a looooooong time. However, at some point it does become safe to coat over; I usually wait *at least* four days.

Agree with everything else fyrwrxz said (man that's tough to type :)).
 
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bobbyg23

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Is there a difference between "American accents" and "painters touch"? The white is aa and the red is pt.
 

Mushtang

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There's always a dozen different reasons given for this happening, and the most common seems to be the time between coats.

However, this stopped happening to me when I started to do one thing, and that is to shake the can for a minimum of 3 minutes before using it, immediately before using it. If I'm putting another coat on the next day I'll shake for 3 minutes again. I set the timer on my phone and start shaking.

Someone once explained to me that the constituents of the paint (pigment, binder, and carrier) separate in the can fairly easy and the reason the paint bubbles up and crackles like that is because the binder has unmixed from the carrier (oil or water depending on what kind of paint you have). So if the carrier and binder aren't mixed enough the paint doesn't flow and attach properly.

It made sense to me, I've always shaken for at least 3 minutes, and haven't had that happen since.

Now that I've posted this I'm guessing the next time I paint it will crackle and bubble. Dang it.
 

bobbyg23

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There's always a dozen different reasons given for this happening, and the most common seems to be the time between coats.

However, this stopped happening to me when I started to do one thing, and that is to shake the can for a minimum of 3 minutes before using it, immediately before using it. If I'm putting another coat on the next day I'll shake for 3 minutes again. I set the timer on my phone and start shaking.

Someone once explained to me that the constituents of the paint (pigment, binder, and carrier) separate in the can fairly easy and the reason the paint bubbles up and crackles like that is because the binder has unmixed from the carrier (oil or water depending on what kind of paint you have). So if the carrier and binder aren't mixed enough the paint doesn't flow and attach properly.

It made sense to me, I've always shaken for at least 3 minutes, and haven't had that happen since.

Now that I've posted this I'm guessing the next time I paint it will crackle and bubble. Dang it.
I shake the can in between coats. Just before I use it everytime and also during painting.
 

bobbyg23

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4 coats of white seems like a lot of paint also.
 

CalebJ

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However, this stopped happening to me when I started to do one thing, and that is to shake the can for a minimum of 3 minutes before using it, immediately before using it. If I'm putting another coat on the next day I'll shake for 3 minutes again. I set the timer on my phone and start shaking.
Suddenly I want to build one of these:

Modifying that to work with my drill press would be handy. Set it and forget it while getting out the rest of the painting supplies.
 

bobbyg23

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But, do you shake it for 45 seconds, or the full 3 minutes? That's my point.
Understood. I was saying I have great success with shaking often. I was trying to say you have a good point.
 

MALBAR 70

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Is there a difference between "American accents" and "painters touch"? The white is aa and the red is pt.
I don't know if there's a difference, but the only time I have had compatibility problems within a specific brand is when I tried to use Rustoleum "Painters Touch" with Rustoleum "American Accents". Even though the base coat was several days dry, it did exactly what happened to the OP. It also took FOREVER to dry so that it could be refinished. Since this occurred, I will not mix "A.A." with "P.T.".
 

gcanroc

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...a couple of answered questions:

1) I waited about 30-40 hrs between my last white coat and my initial red coat.

2) I intentionally shook the can for at least one minute as specified on the can.

3) This reaction of the red paint happened immediately, before my eyes as I was spraying it on the rocket.

Note: The rocket was inside for more then a day then I painted outside in my work van. Difference in temperature was about 20 degrees. That’s the only variable that makes me wonder.

Geoff
 

bobbyg23

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I don't know if there's a difference, but the only time I have had compatibility problems within a specific brand is when I tried to use Rustoleum "Painters Touch" with Rustoleum "American Accents". Even though the base coat was several days dry, it did exactly what happened to the OP. It also took FOREVER to dry so that it could be refinished. Since this occurred, I will not mix "A.A." with "P.T.".
I bet this is the issue.
 

Funkworks

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I don't know the problem, but with enough data, maybe someone can this out eventually.

The only time I've had an issue with Rust-Oleum was when applying:
"Dupli-color Primer Filler" under "Paint+Primer Winter Gloss Gray".

It never dried and made visible spots, so I sanded all of it off and I'm about to start over with:
"Dupli-color Primer Filler" under "Dupli-color Acrylic Enamel Gray".

So maybe having both "Primer" and "Gloss" on the same can is a sign it should be left alone.
 

Funkworks

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Just an fyi. Did this from bare to gloss coat in about 5 hours total. I use white primer for my base and then the gloss coat to make it all even and shiny.
Yes I would think pure PRIMER is more reliable as a first of many coats, than the "Primer+Paint" stuff.
 

gcanroc

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I bet this is the issue.
...I’m thinking you’re right. I read somewhere else that when using different color spray paints, to “stay” in one “system” but I didn’t think I had to stay in a “system” within a “system”.😉 I’m thinking that when the paint dries I’m going to give it a light sanding with 320 sandpaper and try and apply Painters Touch white as my base coat.🤞

Geoff
 

bobbyg23

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...I’m thinking you’re right. I read somewhere else that when using different color spray paints, to “stay” in one “system” but I didn’t think I had to stay in a “system” within a “system”.😉 I’m thinking that when the paint dries I’m going to give it a light sanding with 320 sandpaper and try and apply Painters Touch white as my base coat.🤞

Geoo
Try painter's choice white primer.
 

AfterBurners

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Try Duplicolor and wont have these issues. I stopped using Rusto years ago for the same exact reasons. I also have a PML Spitfire, which I'm getting ready to paint soon.
 

o1d_dude

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There's always a dozen different reasons given for this happening, and the most common seems to be the time between coats.

However, this stopped happening to me when I started to do one thing, and that is to shake the can for a minimum of 3 minutes before using it, immediately before using it. If I'm putting another coat on the next day I'll shake for 3 minutes again. I set the timer on my phone and start shaking.

Someone once explained to me that the constituents of the paint (pigment, binder, and carrier) separate in the can fairly easy and the reason the paint bubbles up and crackles like that is because the binder has unmixed from the carrier (oil or water depending on what kind of paint you have). So if the carrier and binder aren't mixed enough the paint doesn't flow and attach properly.

It made sense to me, I've always shaken for at least 3 minutes, and haven't had that happen since.

Now that I've posted this I'm guessing the next time I paint it will crackle and bubble. Dang it.
From Amazon...the MixKwik attachment for your Sawzall/reciprocating saw. Runs about $25.

.17908F3E-2C4A-4138-8FE2-95B885DEFCD4.jpeg77D7F170-F5AF-4F57-BC36-D7F7ECA2064D.jpeg
 

gcanroc

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Try Duplicolor and wont have these issues. I stopped using Rusto years ago for the same exact reasons. I also have a PML Spitfire, which I'm getting ready to paint soon.
I’m kinda of invested in Rustoleum so I’ll probably stay with this “system” now...noticed I used the word “system”.😏
 

neil_w

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1) I waited about 30-40 hrs between my last white coat and my initial red coat.
That is tight, and not within the recommended timing (<1 hour or >48 hours). And four coats of white base coat could have been a thicker layer that needed even more time.

I'm definitely going with: white needed more time to dry before red was applied.

No clue about compatibility between Painter's Touch and American Accents; easiest way to answer it would be to contact Rustoleum. They will answer (not always quickly, but eventually). I'd be *surprised* if that was source of the incompatibility.

Just an fyi. Did this from bare to gloss coat in about 5 hours total. I use white primer for my base and then the gloss coat to make it all even and shiny.
HEY HEY HEY YOU SAID YOU WERE GONNA STAY OUT OF IT
 

gcanroc

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1) I waited about 30-40 hrs between my last white coat and my initial red coat.
With the lockdown in effect track of time is lost. I think I could say at +48 hours before applying the red spray paint. Although when I was taping for the red color I couldn’t help but notice a strong fresh paint smell.
 
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