Page 32 of the 2023 Estes catalog?

[trialsguy]

So, is the skull on the Estes Red Max is associated with “The Red Barron” WWI fighter ace, as Antares implied (above)?

[I think not.]

All this being said, I did impulsively buy a Der Big Red Max kit when it dipped to $21. It’s sittin’ on the build pile. I may not use the decals/paint scheme. Not because it represents any regime or ideology , but because it looks a bit goofy to me.

 

[Scott_650]

So, is the skull on the Estes Red Max is associated with “The Red Barron” WWI fighter ace, as Antares implied (above)?

[I think not.]

All this being said, I did impulsively buy a Der Big Red Max kit when it dipped to $21. It’s sittin’ on the build pile. I may not use the decals/paint scheme. Not because it represents any regime or ideology , but because it looks a bit goofy to me.

Yes, it is - in a sideways sort of way. The history of DRM has been discussed before here and on YORF and apparently it had a connection to the Monogram Red Baron t-bucket hot rod designed by Tom Daniel.

The Red Baron hot rod has it’s own unique history - it was a display scale model, then a production model kit, then a full-size custom car, then it “inspired” a Hot Wheel design (I don’t think Tom Daniel was paid by Mattel for using his design). The Ford Model T based “t-bucket” roadster was well-established in the hot rodding world by the late 1950s much less the late 60s, chromed versions of WWI surplus “Pickelhaube” helmets were part of surfer culture and worn by other folks associated with 60s counterculture (hippies and bikers), plus the still popular in the late 60s service comedy TV show Hogan’s Heroes, add in the popularity of Arte Johnson’s “Wolfgang” character from Laugh-In (verrrry interesting…but schtupid) and you get a climate that produces designs like DRM.

So, is the DRM design some sort of positive depiction of nostalgia for the Third Reich? Not in my opinion, especially if you read through the original instructions for the #KC-2 Citation Der Red Max (http://www.spacemodeling.org/jimz/estes/kc-2.pdf) - those instructions are pretty much in line with the wry derision shown towards the German characters in Hogan’s Heroes. Depicting formerly existential monsters as mildly comic villains is, in my mind, a healthy cultural reaction from a confident people.

And that’s probably as deep a philosophical discussion of a whimsical model rocket paint scheme as I care to indulge in

 

[trialsguy]

Yes! - Now that you mention it, I now do remember the Monogram Red Baron t-bucket hot rod, and the '60's hippies/surfer/biker culture use of that "barron helmet". And the "comic villian" concept makes sense to me, too.

That's what I like about TRF members - together, we can fill in those blank spots in our memories, and help one another.

...we now return you to your regular programing...

 

[smstachwick]

...Except that the totenkopfs on the Der Red Max are not SS-style 3/4 profile ones, but are face-on, and some have pickelhauben, which were worn by German troops in World War One.

The skull and crossbones massively predates nazism and is far from specific to them, even in western culture alone, so calling out the ones on the Red Max when they are not even in the same style as the ones worn by SS is just silly and reaching.

Spike on the helmet. If you’re trying not to look like the bad guys….good job!

 

[Antares JS]

Spike on the helmet. If you’re trying not to look like the bad guys….good job!

Pickelhauben look more goofy than villainous to me.

 

[Trident]

Inspired by a -design- doesn't mean they're inspired by a nation or it's choices.

Well said. I bought the ReallyKooStuff Soviet N-1 3D printed model because it was a well executed model of a beautiful design, not because I am inspired by Communist nations or programs.

 

[BWP]

in my youth back in the mid 70s, one of my favorite kits was the Estes Wolverine, based on the Soviet MiG-21. Ramjet nose cone, Red Star decals, dorsal fin same as the Fishbed. I hope to build a clone of it someday. Another rocket i had at that time was the Estes Vostok. Didn’t much care for that one. The fins were cardstock profiles of the strap on boosters. Looked good in the catalog but not in person.

 

[JPalmer621]

Back in the 90s there was Scud rockets from Iraq. We did not support the government of Iraq. We liked the model