P-270 Moskit Soviet supersonic ramjet powered anti-ship cruise missile

Funkworks

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I like it!

When you think about it, it doesn't matter if you use the ramjets to make a cluster or not - both cases are equally fictional and realistic. Modelers are stuck with either powereless airflow or complete rocket motors (or just blocks without airflow, like the ramjets on Madcow's Bomarc). Without metals and below Mach, true ramjet operation is not an option.
 

BABAR

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Would make a great two stage.

you could hide streamers for the booster in the forward sustainer halves of the outboard tubes.

alternatively, cluster the booster, short delay outboards deploy chutes from the ramjet nose cones. (Sustainer completely separates from the booster leaving the outboards attached to booster)
 

lakeroadster

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Truly awesome looking. I'm always a sucker for the designs that don't have stability written all over them. That's gonna need the BOMARC nose weight kit. Don't drop the nose cone on your foot.

Jim

Actually it doesn't need any additional nose ballast at all for a low apogee 18mm C6-5. But for 24mm D motors or larger, you're right.

Kind of depends on how close a person wants to push the stability....
 

Sheree

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About three years ago I designed a complete 3D printed parts kit to build a BT-80 sized P-270 Moskit missile for a customer. I've attached some images of the parts below. If anyone wants the stl files to try to make it fly I'll send them the files. I just don't know if the model can be made to fly in a stable manner. The ram jet tubes are as close to scale as I could make them from images of the missile.

Alex Boyce
Boyce Aerospace Hobbies

20170805_112046-e1511554045630.jpg 20170805_112106-e1511554080387.jpg
 

BigMacDaddy

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I was wondering how many people were in both this forum and the Facebook group. This is the aforementioned Robert McNamee w/ the above model - lakeroadseter (is that you John?) thanks for sharing this over here...

I decided to put the larger fins on the rear and smaller in the middle to make things more stable but the rocket flew so straight that I think I could have gotten away with the large fins in the middle (which is definitely part of the look for this rocket). Easy enough to 3D print another set of parts and make another someday...

Here is the maiden launch:

Some more pictures:
20210619_212222.jpg

20210620_075654.jpg

20210628_180031.jpg
 

lakeroadster

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I was wondering how many people were in both this forum and the Facebook group. This is the aforementioned Robert McNamee w/ the above model - lakeroadseter (is that you John?) thanks for sharing this over here...

I decided to put the larger fins on the rear and smaller in the middle to make things more stable but the rocket flew so straight that I think I could have gotten away with the large fins in the middle (which is definitely part of the look for this rocket). Easy enough to 3D print another set of parts and make another someday...

Here is the maiden launch:

Some more pictures:
View attachment 474220

View attachment 474222

View attachment 474223


Guilty... As Charged.

Welcome Robert aka @BigMacDaddy

Awesome flight.... You are a steely eyed missile man.
 
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BigMacDaddy

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FYI -- next version will get large fins in middle, small in rear along with 24mm motor mount... I posted the STL files for this model for sale in the Sale section and mentioned the 24mm motor mount but needed to test it. Had some time to print this morning and looks / works great and dimensions work out well. This next model will need some nose weight to offset that larger engine.


1628968351453.jpeg 1628968371064.jpeg
 

BigMacDaddy

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Happy Fathers Day Folks!

I finally went back and revisited this rocket design -- almost exactly one year since this original thread was started...

First, I redesigned a number of components since I have gotten better at this during the last year. Made components lighter (particularly rear components), reduced needs for support, strengthened some small tabs that risked breaking off in last version, and finalized the 24mm motor mount design.

I am committed to making the version with the larger fins mid-rocket since I think that is what makes this rocket look less traditional and more interesting. Given this I went ahead and simulated this in the new version of OR with pods. Looks like 1 - 2oz in nose will be sufficient (less if I trust there is a bit of base drag on this model and that the rear pods contribute more to CP moving backwards than OR calculates).

1655645867059.png
 

Bill S

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I like it. I was looking how to build one in Rocksim. Flies on F-composite motors, no 3-d printed parts. Fins aren't quite "scale" though.

ssn-22 missile fooling around image.png
 

BigMacDaddy

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I like it. I was looking how to build one in Rocksim. Flies on F-composite motors, no 3-d printed parts. Fins aren't quite "scale" though.

View attachment 523504

Cool! I was contemplating upscaling to BT-80 in the future but might do a different model with side ramjets. When I looked at the models / pictures / plans, it looks like there is a transition down and then back up (i.e., the rear body tube portion should be the same size as front body tube but the middle section is thinner).
1655648545252.jpeg

If you were interested in upscaled transition sections / ramjet parts PM me...
 

Bill S

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To me, the rear is bigger, and the middle and front are the same diameter. I think the ramjets create an illusion of thinness in the middle.
 

BigMacDaddy

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There may also be a few variants... I was relying some on these 3D designs I found...

1655652199311.jpeg

Definitely hard to gauge due to optical illusion of the ramjets and intersect w/ main body tube... Some new pictures I had not found before (to me, shading seems to a suggest a front transition - shadow goes on an angle down from front of ramjet and then continues parallel again at different height on body tube):
1655652942980.png

1655654561831.png
 

lakeroadster

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So we know the rear of the body is bigger in diameter than the front...

P-270 Moskit.png

IF the sketch below can be trusted to be correct, the nose cone and a section of fuselage are straight, then from there it's a conical section all the way to the tail. Otherwise there would be a vertical line drawn, wherever other body sections went from straight to conical.

P-270_moskit_sketch.svg.png
 

BigMacDaddy

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So we know the rear of the body is bigger in diameter than the front...

View attachment 523546

IF the sketch below can be trusted to be correct, the nose cone and a section of fuselage are straight, then from there it's a conical section all the way to the tail. Otherwise there would be a vertical line drawn, wherever other body sections went from straight to conical.

View attachment 523545

You guys may be right, I cannot decided.

I noticed that the rear looks larger in that top picture -- however, that could be a perspective issue if the picture was not taken totally square. There is definitely a transition to a wider main airframe body near the middle-to-rear of ramjets so not sure we can trust the lines on main body of that illustration.

Crazy how few pictures there are of these missiles (well not totally surprising given that it is a military technology, I guess it is surprising how many pictures there are of some other prototypes).
 
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BigMacDaddy

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For now, I am going to stick to my previous design... I did find a good picture of the rear of the rocket.

1655811234469.jpeg

Not particularly interesting but does suggest I can recess my engine some to increase stability. I am going to try recessing it 1/2 the diameter of the body tube (around 2cm) based on the Apogee article about GDS. I am not going to be totally aggressive on stability assumptions but I do think that the base of this model is draggy enough that I can use the base drag trick (I also think that OR is not totally taking into account the drag or other aerodynamic benefits of those pods). So end result is I am going to drop my nose weight down to 1oz (sorry to shift off metric just for nose weight but I use fishing weights).

1655811180236.png
 

MadRocketer

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This cutaway shows a slight taper in the middle of the airframe between the mouth of the ramjet and forward fin but the front and rear are the same. Interestingly enough, on the ramjet body, there appears to be a slimming at the forward fins followed by a bit of a swell and another taper at the rear.1655905908322.jpeg
On a side note, I really like the alternate name.
 

techrat

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@lakeroadster -- your original mock-up has the ramjet tubes open, which seemingly could act as additional "finnage", making the rocket more stable than OpenRocket thinks it is, because I do not believe OpenRocket takes into account "tube fins". However, I also think the tubes are too long to act as fins, but only a swing test will tell for sure.

I notice a lot of the other attempts at this design show bigger fins at the bottom than at the center, making them "semi-scale" models. But that's artistic license to make it flyable in real life as a model. Either way, it's a nice design, very shocked there's no kit produced of this particular device, as I suspect every rocketeer would love to have one of these in his fleet.
 

BigMacDaddy

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@lakeroadster -- your original mock-up has the ramjet tubes open, which seemingly could act as additional "finnage", making the rocket more stable than OpenRocket thinks it is, because I do not believe OpenRocket takes into account "tube fins". However, I also think the tubes are too long to act as fins, but only a swing test will tell for sure.

I notice a lot of the other attempts at this design show bigger fins at the bottom than at the center, making them "semi-scale" models. But that's artistic license to make it flyable in real life as a model. Either way, it's a nice design, very shocked there's no kit produced of this particular device, as I suspect every rocketeer would love to have one of these in his fleet.

I thought about doing this as one of my next kits...
 
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