Online ordering killing hobby shops

[Pat_B]

The vast majority of brick and mortar (b&m) hobby store personel have no selling skills. I've been self-employed my whole life and find it amazing that hobby stores lose customers who just walk in the door and don't buy from them, yet will go home and buy on-line. I'll compete very favorably in my business every day when I have a face-to-face opportunity to sell to my customers versus having them go to a fixed website.

Nonetheless, the Internet is just one additional means to a product and there's excuse for brick and mortar stores to also not be on-line.

Look at motor sales- the b&m stores should be very competitive with on-line sources who have to charge HAZMAT and shipping fees. It's also way too common for b&m stores to emphasize one hobby over the others. RC comes to mind. Sure, it's profitable so lots of product needs to be in stock, but far too many stores just emphasize something like RC at the expense of the other hobbies.

Insofar as what's in stock, I think too many hobby stores put too much of their money into RC inventory and can't afford to stock up on the other hobbies. If I need some motors then I'm not going to wait a day or so for the hobby store to order them- I'll go elsewhere. But someone wanting a $500 RC product will likely wait a day or so for their product.

 

[RangerStl]

So are my observations so far valid?

Now given all that, what does the retailer do to avoid the mass extinction that is coming?

How much would it cost to implement and staff?

How much trouble would it be, really?

 

[MarkII]

So are my observations so far valid?

Yes and no; the situation is complicated.


Most hobby shops that I have seen would be delighted to get 50 walk-in customers per day, especially if 30 of them actually bought something. That's a banner day!

As for going heavily into R/C, that's where the market is right now; that's what is hot. Out of those hypothetical 50 customers that walk in on a given day, 45 (or more) will be shopping for R/C stuff. I mean, why wouldn't a hobby shop cater to that market? My area hobby shop is surviving, even thriving, because it latched onto that segment of the hobby market. What were they going to do, ignore it and try to get by on train sales? (Big market, there, right?) My guy reconfigured his shop to serve the market that is out there, which is heavily R/C - that's what any good merchant does. Yet he still keeps all of the train stuff, even if he only makes one train-oriented sale a month. (I have actually seen a couple of his train customers - they were even older than me!) That's because it is where his heart is, and he won't give it up. But when he got into R/C, he made a full commitment, learning all about it and becoming an expert builder and mechanic. He doesn't sit back and wait for the customer to come to him, either; he actively promotes the hobby.

I don't feel all that slighted by it, either. (Maybe just a little at first, but I got over it.) Considering the size of his store, he has a decent amount of stock to support other hobbies, too. The model rocketry section is his third biggest department, which is astounding in light of the fact that there is absolutely no market for it up here. (When I want to find other rocketeers to launch with, I have to drive to another part of the state.) I can't understand why he even bothers with it; when I come in to buy rocketry stuff, his response tells me that I'm the first rocketry customer that he has seen in months. Maybe he thinks that it will eventually come back.

I remember walking through hobby shops and hobby sections of stores back in the 1970's and seeing them be heavily oriented toward model rocketry (and slot car racing). That made sense, because it was what was hot at the time. Hobby shop owners back then were doing the same thing that shop owners that cater to the R/C market are doing now - going where the money is. Hobby shops eventually shrunk or did away with their rocketry sections in the '80's and '90's because their customer base for it disappeared. Can you blame them?

The resurgence in rocketry in recent years has coincided with the explosion in e-commerce. It has been much easier for online hobby shops to re-establish rocketry departments (and for a large number of specialty shops to arise) in cyberspace than it is for traditional hobby shops to revive long-dormant or re-create long-extinct supply links to an industry that was all but dead for a couple of decades.

Hobby shops like the one that was the subject of that article aren't dying because they have failed to serve the rocketry community. I mean really, we're coming back, but we're not that big. For the past decade, we have had a stagnant economy with essentially no job growth. The median family income in the US in 2008 was lower than the same measure in 1998. A larger percentage of Americans are living below the poverty line now than was the case a decade ago. While a tiny group of people acquired great wealth during the decade, the vast majority of Americans saw either no increase in income or actually lost ground. And then last year the bottom fell out. We are all now just barely hanging on by our fingernails. Brick-and-mortar hobby shops are simply reflecting the same decline that has hit the entire American retail economy.

MarkII

 

[GuyNoir]

Hobby shops like the one that was the subject of that article aren't dying because they have failed to serve the rocketry community. I mean really, we're coming back, but we're not that big. For the past decade, we have had a stagnant economy with essentially no job growth.

Don't forget that craft hobbies are generally in decline. When you can surf the web and play with your XBOX, Wii, etc. who's got time to actually make stuff anymore?

 

[accooper]

Yep, Xbox is it. My son has an XBox, it's here at home now. No Xbox at college, but even when he was at home, he would jump at the chance to go fly rockets. He has always said that it was because rockets kept him thinking. So his mother and and I always encouraged him. And discouraged him to stay inside.

Andrew From Texas

 

[AKPilot]

Bunny, obviously, is correct - craft hobbies in general are declining. The hobby industry is well aware of that.

However, the decline of "craft" hobbies leads, simply, to the evolution and foundation of other hobbies. People forget to put it into historical context.

Historical books have shown the following:

- Prior to the invention of the printing press, people primarily worked and had little necessity to read. Then the printing press came along and people laminted, yes it's true, that too many books would make people lazy and not work as hard.

Then came the radio, which people also criticized because it took people away from books and their imagination.

Then came the television, which further took away people from their imagination.

Now we have the Information Age.

The same has happened with hobbies, to an extent . . .

There were other hobbies & games people played prior to the turn of the last century.

Model trains and R/C planes came early last century. Real trains could be seen on a daily basis, and planes were new and exciting.

Then in the late 50s came model rocketry, along with the space age.

Now comes video games. Right, wrong, or indifferent, it's a simple evolution.

The hobby will find and eventual base population. Maybe not the numbers it had in the late 60s and 70s, but it'll have one.

As for right here and now, I'm honestly and sincerely glad I came into the hobby in 2004 (after my Woodbadge/October Sky/Team Building training). Why? Because there's never been a better choice for model rockets at any time before.

Most anything I could ever wants exists in a kit, or is readily available to clone.

As for the "craft" hobby industry, it'll exist - but, they're going to have to rapidly evolve with the times and be more inclusive of the newer hobbies (video gaming, etc.) and quit viewing it as a separate entity.

Again, I'd go back to say, when have you walked into a hobby store and NOT seen a kid playing with the flight simulators.

Which brings me to another interesting point . . . when have you walked in and seen a standalone PC with RockSim on it, launching rockets? Hmmmmm . . . Tim's going owe me 10% on that marketing strategy.

 

[sunward]

There have been a few posts so a few comments.

.... but I expect to see a kind of mass extinction in retail, actually.....

brick and mortar retailing is here to stay. It is not going away but it will change.

...So unless our local hobby store can go Wal-Mart and deal directly with manufacturers, the double-markup stays..

Won't happen. Retail stores don't do the volume a distributor does. A distributor also puts your product into a lot of other stores.

The vast majority of brick and mortar (b&m) hobby store personel have no selling skills.......

You are being polite.

Most hobby store owners have no idea what they are doing. They are slow to change and are under financed. The small hobby store, say 1,500 sq ft, is all but gone. Expect more stores to close. The number has gone from the quoted figure of 5,500 5 years ago ( when I started) to about 3,500 now. In about 5-10 years, that number will go down to 1000-2000 stores. The same thing happened to hardware stores. One at every corner. Now just the big box ones exist.

Another problem with many store owners is they don't stand up to their distributors and suppliers ( rocket vendors are included in this group). As a retailing group, they are weak. They get pushed around by distributors. Say nothing about distributors having their own online stores breaking their own rules on minimum pricing, deal with vendors that give other companies unfair pricing ( Walmart anyone?), say nothing about vendors offering their products at reduced prices on their web site only, say nothing about vendors offering products only on their site at first, and so on.

Some of the stuff that happens in the hobby industry would not be tolerated in another retail market.

...Now given all that, what does the retailer do to avoid the mass extinction that is coming?....

Become big. Get lots of financing. Sell online.

.... the same thing that shop owners that cater to the R/C market are doing now - going where the money is. ....

They need to be careful. There is a glut of product and margins are coming down.

.....As for the "craft" hobby industry, it'll exist - but, they're going to have to rapidly evolve with the times and be more inclusive of the newer hobbies (video gaming, etc.) and quit viewing it as a separate entity. .

Bingo.

That is the biggest problem. Hobby stores don't change. There are still some out there that don't use email. Really.

The market has changed. No question. But you simply can't blame the internet for it. It is another form of selling. Just like a 1-800 number, catalogue sales, door to door sales, etc.

 

[sunward]

Just a little side note.

The article, complaining about a hobby store losing sales to online shops, has a link to their store. Ironic?

But the link goes to a hobbytown site and then to a hobbyshopnow site. So they don't even run their own online shop or even their own site. Done through the head office.

That was the norm 10 years ago.

 

[MarkII]

Most hobby store owners have no idea what they are doing.

I can't judge whether or not this is generally true, but the owners of hobby stores that are actually doing well sure do.

The small hobby store, say 1,500 sq ft, is all but gone.

Those are the only kinds that I ever see. Perhaps there has been a significant thinning of their numbers, but the ones that are surviving (and even growing) are those that seem to know what they are doing.

The same thing happened to hardware stores. One at every corner. Now just the big box ones exist.

I don't know about other parts of the US, let alone Canada, but big box stores are scarce around here. Small hardware stores, on the other hand, abound.

Become big. Get lots of financing. Sell online.

Also, get to know your local market. Get a good location that is convenient to where most of your customers are coming from. Be open during the hours and days that the majority of your customers can get to you. Try to get to know your customers personally, and show that you are there to help them and be on their side. Be an active member of your community. Actively promote the hobbies that your customers are really excited about. And provide really great service.

They [hobby shops that go after the R/C market] need to be careful. There is a glut of product and margins are coming down.

Who is going to sell gas-powered R/C? Walmart? And if hobby shops don't sell what people are buying, how are they supposed to survive?

That is the biggest problem. Hobby stores don't change.

Exactly. Adapt or die. Study the hobby market; see what people are doing now for hobbies. Become knowledgeable about that hobby (or hire someone who is) and sell to that market. And provide awesome service.

Also, in response to another post:
Flight sims or RockSim running at hobby shops? What hobby shops have public computer stations? I have never seen that, even at the ones that are doing quite well.

MarkII

 

[luke strawwalker]

\

Also, in response to another post:
Flight sims or RockSim running at hobby shops? What hobby shops have public computer stations? I have never seen that, even at the ones that are doing quite well.

MarkII

Really?? Nearly every hobby shop in the Houston area selling RC has a computer set up running an RC flight training simulator, some even with bigscreen TV's!

I usually take a few minutes to embarrass myself by crashing a few RC planes in spectacular ways on the simulator... though I did loop a blimp on one of the sims and I didn't know that could be done!

My brother, when he accompanies me to the hobby shop, likes to stand behind me and yell, "Goose! I'm punching out!", usually just as I'm starting to throttle up on the runway for takeoff... :bangpan:

Later! OL JR

 

[MarkII]

All of the hobby shops that I have ever been in were too small-time for that, apparently. I don't even know where they would find the floor space.

MarkII

 

[gbarron]

I fully support my not so local hobby shops that are at least an hours drive away. None of the shops carry a single rocket motor or part. Almost every time I go to pick up an RC related part it has to be ordered. I feel if it has to be ordered I might as well order it on-line myself and save 2 hours driving.

I miss the old days of going to the shop and talking to someone and learning from them on new techniques of building our the next new product out.
I used to ride my bicycle ten miles to one hobby shop because the had so much stuff.
I use models of all kinds RC planes, boats, cars, heli as well as rockets as an excuse to get the family outside. My wii has been collecting dust most of its life.
I am now considering joining tripoli and driving 2 hours every meeting to tampa.

 

[AKPilot]

I fully support my not so local hobby shops that are at least an hours drive away. None of the shops carry a single rocket motor or part. Almost every time I go to pick up an RC related part it has to be ordered. I feel if it has to be ordered I might as well order it on-line myself and save 2 hours driving.

I miss the old days of going to the shop and talking to someone and learning from them on new techniques of building our the next new product out.
I used to ride my bicycle ten miles to one hobby shop because the had so much stuff.
I use models of all kinds RC planes, boats, cars, heli as well as rockets as an excuse to get the family outside. My wii has been collecting dust most of its life.
I am now considering joining tripoli and driving 2 hours every meeting to tampa.

GBarron, welcome to the forum!!!

 

[AstronMike]

I am now considering joining tripoli and driving 2 hours every meeting to tampa.

Hey, even if you *don't* join TRA right now, come on down and see us at the TTRA launch. Be really glad to have you here, just don't bring bigger gliders than me though :eyepop:

 

[gbarron]

I'll try and be there this weekend.