Old G80's

[10fttall]

Are the old Aerotech G80's (120 ns) still NAR certified? Does it matter that they were manufactured and purchased when they were certified?

If they are not, I could not use them at a sanctioned launch that already has the weight notification, correct?

 

[Brian62]

Yes. I have never seen an expiration date on the certified motor listing
Brian

 

[UhClem]

In spite of a direct query to NAR S&T nothing has been said about the difference between the new and old Aerotech G80's. No requirement for certification of the brand new motor which has nothing in common with the old nor removing the contest certification for the old G80's.

All evidence says that so far as NAR S&T is concerned the new ones are identical to the old ones.

 

[10fttall]

EDIT: Wrote this before seeing the above post...makes sense now.


Well, the reason I asked is that I looked on the NAR website and saw the comprehensive certified motor pdf. It listed the 120ns G80, but not the 100ns. I have a hard time believing the old version is certified and the new version is not. The list of S&T news releases is out of date...so basically I have conflicting data and would like to figure it out.

As far as expiration, I see a good number of indicators that motors are decertified for even general use after not being produced for a while. For example, here is text from the news release dealing with the decertification of Estes A10-0T:

The following motors, having been out of production for more than three years, will lose their NAR certification for general use effective December 31, 2003.

 

[astrowolf67]

There were two different G80's made by AT. A Blue Thunder G80, the G80T. And the Fast White Lightening G80, G80FWL. The G80T is still in production, and still certified. The G80FWL, is no longer produced. I don't know if it is still certified for sport use or not.

 

[marvSRG]

Well, there is actually a third AeroTech G80--the newest 100ns version...but I believe that Tripoli or NAR (whoever certed the motor) simply allowed it to take the place of the old one on the cert lists.

As for the old ones, I don't know. They probably have a point of expiration like all motors, followed by the three (?) year grace period.

 

[billspad]

Originally posted by marvSRG
Well, there is actually a third AeroTech G80--the newest 100ns version...but I believe that Tripoli or NAR (whoever certed the motor) simply allowed it to take the place of the old one on the cert lists.

As for the old ones, I don't know. They probably have a point of expiration like all motors, followed by the three (?) year grace period.

The way the NFPA code is written, the manufacturer can make significant changes to a motor and it stays certified without retesting as long as they notify the whoever certified the motor that the changes were made. I can't say that I think it's a good idea to allow that but those are the rules and Aerotech followed them.

 

[10fttall]

The way the NFPA code is written, the manufacturer can make significant changes to a motor and it stays certified without retesting as long as they notify the whoever certified the motor that the changes were made. I can't say that I think it's a good idea to allow that but those are the rules and Aerotech followed them.

That's fine with me, I'll launch away then. I just wish I had more.

 

[dshmel]

I have some old G80's with hexadecimal date codes like 613F6, 613F1, 5E33B. I believe these are circa 1997 and 1994. Does anyone know the Ns impulse of these?

 

[cwbullet]

Google provided the answer:

https://www.nar.org/SandT/pdf/Aerotech/G80.pdf

Search "Aerotech G80 thrustcurve"

 

[dshmel]

The test you provided a link for is dated September of 2006. My motors are manufactured 12 years earlier. My motors have a phenolic case. I searched TRF and found a reference to a change in design for the G80T, switching from phenolic to molded cases. So was the phenolic case version before 2006 100Ns?

forum

 

[cwbullet]

The test you provided a link for is dated September of 2006. My motors are manufactured 12 years earlier. My motors have a phenolic case. I searched TRF and found a reference to a change in design for the G80T, switching from phenolic to molded cases. So was the phenolic case version before 2006 100Ns?

View attachment 377293 forum

I am not certain. I can tell you there were 2 forms of the G80 in the molded casing. One was 136-137 and the other 94-96.

 

[dshmel]

Found it:

https://www.nar.org/SandT/pdf/Aerotech/G80-2004.pdf

I backed into the NAR directory:



So the pre-2006 G80T was 120 NS total impulse in a phenolic case, then it went to 94 Ns in a molded case, and then 137 Ns. I didn't see the historic certifications listed on Thrustcurve. Now I know to check out the NAR archive.

 

[Wallace]

I have a handful of the Estes branded AT Blue Thunder G-80s. I've read that they were the most/bestest G-80s produced but cannot verify. Anyone know if these were the 137Ns version? Btw, the labels are gone so no luck there...

 

[cwbullet]

I have a handful of the Estes branded AT Blue Thunder G-80s. I've read that they were the most/bestest G-80s produced but cannot verify. Anyone know if these were the 137Ns version? Btw, the labels are gone so no luck there...

They aere essentially the same as the new AT G80s.

 

[dshmel]

https://www.nar.org/SandT/pdf/Estes/G80T.pdf

 

[Bat-mite]

Philosophically, I can't see how NAR/CAR/TRA would decertify a motor that was once certified. If it was certified, it was tested and verified and sold as certified. sure, it may not be the same as a G80 build 20 years later, but it was still certified when it was sold. It would not make sense to me to say that a certified motor is decertified just because it has sat on a shelf.

 

[dshmel]

I have a bunch of old motors, both SU and reloads. Tripoli Research Launch rules permit decertified commercial motors - UNLESS - the motor was decertified for cause.

https://www.tripoli.org/Portals/1/Documents/Safety Code/ResearchSafetyCode - 2017.pdf

https://www.tripoli.org/Portals/1/Documents/Safety Code/Research Launches FAQ - July 2017.pdf

Prefecture rules may come into play, such as "sparkie type" motor restrictions.

 

[DeeRoc29]

Derailing the thread a bit here but I just realized that if I put seven of the new 137 Ns G80T's in my THOY Nighthawk, it's like adding an eighth motor compared to the old G80's (pic here). Time to place an order from BMS, I think.

 

[dshmel]

I opened up one of the 25 year old G80T's (the 120 Ns version in the phenolic case). The delay element was shot and the propellant grain was rock hard. I have had good luck resurrecting Blue Thunder motors. Since this is a C slot grain with a 1" diameter, I don't see using it in an RMS case. I will likely use these old motors without the ejection charge in a rocket with electronic deployment. Blue Thunder ages well.

 

[DeeRoc29]

The G80's shown in my last post were ~25 years old or more. I removed all ejection charges as I used electronic deployment. But all seven lit immediately and performed flawlessly! Agreed, dshmel, Blue Thunder ages well for sure.

 

[Wallace]

Derailing the thread a bit here but I just realized that if I put seven of the new 137 Ns G80T's in my THOY Nighthawk, it's like adding an eighth motor compared to the old G80's (pic here). Time to place an order from BMS, I think.

Perfect, please post pics.

 

[Wallace]

https://www.nar.org/SandT/pdf/Estes/G80T.pdf

Thank you.

 

[beeblebrox]

.

 

[dshmel]

Should prolly end the discussion before a mod steps in. We are now into research territory with a discussion about disassembly of SU motors and cobbling together alternatives. If you are on fb, check out the "Anything Goes Rocketry" group.

 

[beeblebrox]

Should prolly end the discussion before a mod steps in. We are now into research territory with a discussion about disassembly of SU motors and cobbling together alternatives. If you are on fb, check out the "Anything Goes Rocketry" group.

or review the US Constitution...1st amendment.

 

[beeblebrox]

Should prolly end the discussion before a mod steps in. We are now into research territory with a discussion about disassembly of SU motors and cobbling together alternatives. If you are on fb, check out the "Anything Goes Rocketry" group.

I clicked the Join button...waiting for reply.

 

[solid_fuel]

or review the US Constitution...1st amendment.

This forum is not run by the government and a private entity can limit discussion however they want.

 

[jetlag]

I have a question:
Why can I not find any G80's (single use) with a 4 second delay? I need the short delay for my NCR Bomarc. Not a Level 1, so I have to use these.
Allen

 

[solid_fuel]

I have a question:
Why can I not find any G80's (single use) with a 4 second delay? I need the short delay for my NCR Bomarc. Not a Level 1, so I have to use these.
Allen

Or.... if you’re a NAR or TRA member you could use an H motor in your level 1 cert flight.