# Nuke Pro Max and L1

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#### spacecowboy

##### Well-Known Member
I ordered a Nuke Pro Max from LOC for my L1 cert bird.

I can find very small amounts of info on this thing.
Nothing at all on EMRR, which surprised me.

It looks like a winner, at least the fins go to the MM, and they are shaped to not bust off.

yes, I did a search on "Nuke pro" on the forum, only one applicable hit of someone looking for the SIM file....

Any input, pro/con is welcome. Obviously, you've got an LPR&MPR flier trying to make it to the big leagues here. Thx.

#### rstaff3

##### Oddroc-eteer
The Nuke Pro should be a fine L1 rocket. It's somewhat comparable to my Small Endeavour size wise (2.2 vs 2.7"), which I have flown on G and H motors. Being a smallish rocket I'd suggest you use an H to keep it in sight (more or less). Once an L1, you can up the motor and sacrifice it to the rocket gods

Make sure you consider stuff like some sort of motor retention.

#### lalligood

##### Well-Known Member
...and please consider writing a review for EMRR after your successful certification launch

Good luck!

#### Batman

##### Well-Known Member
I've got a Nuke Pro Maxx and it rocks. There are only two drawbacks to it I can see for L1. It's as big as the small endeavour, (i have one of those too), but it is much lighter. I am guessing that the NPM will be out of site even on an H128W. The other thing is i like to use Kaplow clips for motor retention (cheap, easy and they work great), but the centering rings on the NPM are so narrow because of the 38mm mount, you'll have trouble getting a blind nut in. I do love the rocket, but for level one, i would go for something larger diameter just because it's easier to fit stuff in and doesn't go as high. You will dig the rocket though. Have fun!

#### billeblurzz

##### Well-Known Member
I came across this thread and remembered I had built this rocket over a year ago...and never flown it! I thought it was a Nuke Pro Max...but after thinking about it, I believe it is a NORAD PRO MAX!!! Are they one and the same?? Anyway, here it is...38mm mount! I don't have a field BIG enough around here to fly this! A while back, I thought I might try certification with it...but now I just fly LOW and MID power!!!

#### billeblurzz

##### Well-Known Member
Here is detail of fins....this rocket is STOUT!!! I used Rustoleum Metallics Graphite Grey....giving a "gun-metal" metallic finish!

#### billeblurzz

##### Well-Known Member
Shot of the business end....I also call this "BIG LUG"....HUGE lugs came with the kit....maybe by mistake....I used them anyway....don't know if I would use them now....just did not know that much about it back then!!!

#### spacecowboy

##### Well-Known Member
The Norad PM is a 3" dia bird.
BTW, nice job on that one.

NukePM is a 2" dia bird, and probably a bad choice for L1 now that I think about it. It has triangular fins....www.locprecision.com

Can anybody help me with these ?
1) Kaplow clips
2) the smallest H motor I can use to get the thing back for L1

The jump from MPR to LPR is a lot bigger than I thought.

#### PunkRocketScience

##### Well-Known Member
Spacecowboy-

Kaplow klips offer positive motor retention as opposed to just using a friction fit, i.e. masking tape.

I'm about to finish off my Nuke PM, having just gotten primer on it. It seems very similar to my LOC Weasel weight wise, so I would expect an H to put it nearly out of sight. I would highly recommend tracking powder. My Weasel put in a simply amazing flight on only a F20.

I'm attaching the Rocksim file for the Nuke PM that I build before building, good luck simming it out. I've tested the model with the Pro38 motor profiles. On the 2 grain H, it just topped 1300'.

#### Batman

##### Well-Known Member
Todd- You might want to recheck that sim. I think my NPM came in around 20 oz. My PML Phobos weighs almost twice as much, same diameter, and it sims out over 2000' on an H128. I'm not familiar with the Pro38 motors, but even the two grain can't be much weaker than a 175 newton H128. I'm certain your looking at nearly 3000' or better on any L1 motor in that NPM. What final weight did you come up with in your sim?

#### astrowolf67

##### Well-Known Member
Suggestions,

Install your retention to the aft ring before mounting it to the motor mount. Leave the aft ring unattached when installing the motor mount so you can remove it, and apply good internal fillets on the fin tabs. To do this, spread epoxy up in the aft end about where the forward ring will be. Insert the motor mount. let the epoxy dry, then using your retention screw, remove the aft ring. Next, install the fins per the instructions, and apply the internal fillets while the aft ring is off. When your ready to install the aft ring, just spread some epoxy on the fin tabs, and around the aft end of the tube and push it on. Make sure the retention screw will not hit the fin tabs. Then put the external fillet on the aft ring. You could even pour in some 2 part foam if desired before installing the aft ring.

Recovery, since the fins don't extend past the end of the body tube, you can probably get by with a large streamer.

#### PunkRocketScience

##### Well-Known Member
Batman-

Thanks for the info. I'll double check the weight against the actual model as soon as it's finished. The weights were based on the weights of the unassembled parts and the rocksim parts library.

#### spacecowboy

##### Well-Known Member
I got this NPM mostly built. Epoxy was a trip, even after using it on 2 mid-power bash jobs for a test run.
Built it like my smaller birds, leave the aft centering ring out, internal fillets....I've broken some fins on those, but they don't snap off.

I am MAJOR missing something on high-power, call me an ignorant Texan....

I've got one really big motor mount tube, no engine block, and no retention (ie, hook).

I am planning to fly this thing ONCE, unless I don't make L1.
I am also really not planning to fly it on RMS motors.
Masking tape is supposedly good enough for L1 for engine block/retention.

I think not. I can see the motor going right up the MMT....cato.

Can I find a single use H motor, cut the end off, and epoxy it in the top of the MMT for an engine block ????

Maybe the guys at AARG can help. I do plan to have the experts there look it over next month, then go back the following month and try my cert. I apologize for the long story, but I need the help I can get here off TRF....Thx

#### PunkRocketScience

##### Well-Known Member
Hey Cowboy-

Make a thrust ring on the end of the motor with enough masking tape to keep the casing from pushing up through the tube. Works great! I do this all the time when flying AT SU F-G motors.

Haven't tried it with an H, but the theory is the same...

#### Batman

##### Well-Known Member
if you really don't plan on flying any bigger motors in it, just get a LOC centering ring for a 29mm mount in a 38mm tube and epoxy it inside the 38mm motor tube. Then the single use wil be fine, it will just prevent you form ever putting a longer motor in it. You could also epoxy the CR at the end of the MMT and then cut coupler tubes to give the proper spacing for whatever motor you choose.

#### daveyfire

##### Piled Higher and Deeper
Don't epoxy in a motor block! Because even though you say you will only fly it once, there will always be that irresistible draw towards higher power... might as well start checking out loan options now for that inevitable N4800T

Masking tape around the back works fine for the duration of the thrust of the motor. If you're ever wondering about it, check out this photo from BALLS last year: http://www.lokiresearch.com/BALLS 2003/fv44.htm

Yes, that's a tape thrust ring on a 6" motor case, courtesy of Jim Rosson. Held up great during the flight on an O3500 Skidmark!

It'll be fine for your L1

#### spacecowboy

##### Well-Known Member
Now I'm completely freaked out. There's got to be something wrong with the SIM that someone so generously provided.
I get this =>
3000 ft on H128 and 4000 ft on H145 ????
I can kiss this thing goodbye. And my choice of flourescent green paint for the whole bird was a bad call too. I should have stuck with my original plan of all black.

Maybe that's why it's called HighPower.

Here's to a nice chunk of change going to the moon....

#### wyldbill

##### Well-Known Member
Find yourself an H97J or H73J and stash 8 oz. of shot in the payload section. That should keep it under 1700ft and still get you your L1.

-bill

#### Thrasher

##### Well-Known Member
I would suggest the same, add weight to it. The H73J is the smallest you could put in it. That is a reload, I don't know what single use H's are out there.

I did my level one certification with a 7.5 pound rocket. It went over 1300' on an I195J. I could see it the whole flight and I got it back to fly it again. I go for big and heavy. Altitude means it goes to high to see and you can lose it (and I use dual-deployment).

Have fun.

#### spacecowboy

##### Well-Known Member
Yeah, I should have gone for BIG. I was trying to save a few  on the kit. I can almost bet this thing hits low orbit, and then I get to try again.

I can find some BB's or payload weight. GOOD idea !
How did you arrive at the 8oz number ????

one final hiccup.
I ran into a problem on the coupler, I wrapped it in masking during paint to keep the paint off, and when I pulled the tape, I've got a fuzzy mess and a really tight coupler again. I hit it with yellow glue and a finger, 400 sand it tomorrow. Surely, this is a good solution ????

Paint is drying, but here's a shot of the sections....

#### wyldbill

##### Well-Known Member
Originally posted by spacecowboy
I can find some BB's or payload weight. GOOD idea !
How did you arrive at the 8oz number ????

one final hiccup.
I ran into a problem on the coupler, I wrapped it in masking during paint to keep the paint off, and when I pulled the tape, I've got a fuzzy mess and a really tight coupler again. I hit it with yellow glue and a finger, 400 sand it tomorrow. Surely, this is a good solution ????
I prefer lead shot, but BBs work fine, just not a s dense. Make sure that you encapsulate them so that the won't shift around in the payload section. A few small screws to keep the NC on is probably a good idea.

I just guessed at the 8 oz and plugged it into RockSim (I have an unbuild Nuke Pro Max, which is why I'm following the thread.). Using a H73, 8 oz gets you off a 60 in rail at ~37 ft/s. Just reran these w/ 12 oz. and am getting much higher altitudes though, (2300-2700, the first one was pretty quick and dirty) so you'll probably want to grab a copy of RS and twek around to find a good balance between motor, weight, takeoff speed and altitude. It's not a cheap program, but it'll save you csh in the long run and you can try it for free.

I would have used CA on the coupler, but you should be OK.

FWIW,
-bill

#### wyldbill

##### Well-Known Member
Interesting note, the H238T actually has less total impulse than the BlackJack Loads. 20 Oz of weight and a 238 keeps you under 1900 w/ speed to spare. 32 Oz should keep you under 1300. You'll probably want the 10 Sec delay. {edit} Actually w/ AT's propensity for "bonus delays" the shorter 6 may actually be closer to the optimum (~8.3) especially when you consider the 10 could go to 11 pretty easily.....

#### spacecowboy

##### Well-Known Member
well, one final problem of my own making. I get epoxy all over the inside of the upper BT where the coupler fits putting in the reco attachment.
Sandpaper time on everything, and a 1 cent solution to making sure this thing pops apart upstairs.
I colored the coupler with a carpenter's pencil, seeing as I don't have a tube of graphite laying around. The pieces of this bird separate very nicely now.
I'm sort of wondering if it's not so loose that the RSO may complain. The joint is solid, it just comes apart easy.

I'm sort of at the mercy of the vendors/LEUP's at AARG on what I fly this thing on for L1

#### PunkRocketScience

##### Well-Known Member
Let's see some pics Cowboy!

I've gotten mine to primer, and will be trying out my new paintgun as soon as my wife decides what color she wants it. I'm letting her choose on this one as a challenge to my design/painting skills. For some reason, everything I've been doing lately seems to come out in black and silver...

Why not give it a test launch on a Pro38 1 grain? Should still move out big time on a G motor!

#### spacecowboy

##### Well-Known Member
OK, some pix
I did not primer this as my first attempt on HPR and epoxy was a real treat. It needs some decals, too.

I think it's going to be a go for L1 using masking tape retention. KISS. I can try something more elaborate on the next HPR bird, if I get the chance.

#### spacecowboy

##### Well-Known Member
the biz ends and my pencil fix-it on the coupler

#### PunkRocketScience

##### Well-Known Member
I love the fluorescent green! I painted my Polecat V2 bright green!

I would recommend going really tight on the tape. I nearly lost my 1 grain case when it ejected from my PML Cirrus. Luckily I had used blue painters tape and it stuck out like a sore thumb against the So. Cal. desert hardpack.... Try wrapping a spiral "barber's pole" around the casing. I have heard that this is more effective than a simple end wrap.

#### spacecowboy

##### Well-Known Member
Thanks for the compliment on the flourescent green.
I couldn't find flourescent purple, now that would have been cool.
I was going to go with all black at first, and saw this stuff.
It took 1.5 cans to get done, and I could easily use the rest of the 0.5 can. I did not go to a lot of trouble making this one look good. . . .It may fly only once, and that's for L1.

Amazing, such a simple kit did end up taking a lot of time.

The "barber's pole" does work great, and not for just retaining engines, but getting them in the MM tube and back out again....the wrap works just like a screw thread (as long as you remember which way you wrapped the tape when you put it in there). I learned this trick playing with MPR.

I need a LOT of luck on my cert flight. I was shaking with nerves just showing this thing off at work today. . . .