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neil_w

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I have d12's waiting. Thinking of getting some E20-4w's!
Small caution: E20 (or E15, same thing) white lightning propellant can be hard to start, challenging to cluster. E30 is easier.

Disclaimer: I haven’t personally tried to cluster E15/E20s.
 

bobbyg23

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Small caution: E20 (or E15, same thing) white lightning propellant can be hard to start, challenging to cluster. E30 is easier.

Disclaimer: I haven’t personally tried to cluster E15/E20s.
Thanks for that info. What's the difference that makes them hard to start compared to the e30?
 

Nytrunner

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E30 and F44 motors use a propellant called White Lightning. Bright white flame and white smoke.
The key to clustering it is to use a good launcher (12V or a strong LiPo), holding down the launch button, and making sure the igniters don't get pulled out until both motors light. Some use a stick next to the launchrod with the leads clipped to the top, that way the igniters have some slack if one motor lights and the other one takes a microsec longer. Nothing to be afraid of, its just a new skill

(D16s and other Qjets use a propellant called Fastjack. Its a higher thrust version of the propellant Blackjack which is low thrust, longer burning with thick black smoke)
 

neil_w

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To add to what Nytrunner said, the E30 uses Blue Thunder propellant which has a reputation of being easy to light.
 

Nytrunner

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Crud, Neil is right, E30 is Blue Thunder. Very easy to light, high thrust quick burn, blue flame (don't blink) no smoke.

Great for clustering! E20/E15 is white
 

GlenP

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Just remember to display and launch that with the blue star field on the observer's left side, or towards the North or East. If I remember my USA flag etiquette from scouts.

:)
 

bobbyg23

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Just remember to display and launch that with the blue star field on the observer's left side, or towards the North or East. If I remember my USA flag etiquette from scouts.

:)
Stars were to the left and facing north.
 

RocketTree

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Cool! Hopefully we get some views of the first test flight. I have a feeling its going to be exciting.
 

bobbyg23

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I was able to launch it on D12's today. There is a club that is kind of nearby that I just opened. Watched some people do their L1 certs. 430ft on the D12's and a perfect flight. Unfortunately I do not have video.
 

mikewrt

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I was able to launch it on D12's today. There is a club that is kind of nearby that I just opened. Watched some people do their L1 certs. 430ft on the D12's and a perfect flight. Unfortunately I do not have video.
Congrats on the good launch. Really disappointed no video.... ;)
 

bobbyg23

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I ended up cracking a fin the last time I launched it so I repaired that today.
20200703_153249.jpg
 

bobbyg23

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Crud, Neil is right, E30 is Blue Thunder. Very easy to light, high thrust quick burn, blue flame (don't blink) no smoke.

Great for clustering! E20/E15 is white
I need 1 blue thunder and 1 redline.
 

Nytrunner

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I need 1 blue thunder and 1 redline.
Ooph, thatll be problematic. Different propellants have different thrust curves, and if you use them in binary (1 and 1) you'll have a thrust imbalance.

If you want to combine propellants, you'd need one central motor with a couple of balanced outboard motors, or have a set of balanced pairs (like 2x2 )
 

bobbyg23

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Ooph, thatll be problematic. Different propellants have different thrust curves, and if you use them in binary (1 and 1) you'll have a thrust imbalance.

If you want to combine propellants, you'd need one central motor with a couple of balanced outboard motors, or have a set of balanced pairs (like 2x2 )
But damn it would look cool on this rocket.😀
 

mbeels

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Out of curiosity, I looked around, there aren't that many red motors in 24mm. But if you get (2) 24/60 cases, the NBT and Redline loads have thrust curves that are pretty similar. It looks like the New Blue Thunder gets up to pressure a lot faster, I'm not sure if that'd be an issue or not. But yeah, that'd look cool.

 

bobbyg23

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Out of curiosity, I looked around, there aren't that many red motors in 24mm. But if you get (2) 24/60 cases, the NBT and Redline loads have thrust curves that are pretty similar. It looks like the New Blue Thunder gets up to pressure a lot faster, I'm not sure if that'd be an issue or not. But yeah, that'd look cool.

I was kind of just kidding. I just think that would look awesome. After the q-jets fired a fraction different, I would be leery of using anything but matched motors.
 

BABAR

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Ooph, thatll be problematic. Different propellants have different thrust curves, and if you use them in binary (1 and 1) you'll have a thrust imbalance.

If you want to combine propellants, you'd need one central motor with a couple of balanced outboard motors, or have a set of balanced pairs (like 2x2 )
Hmmm, tough call.

My suspicion is that even with perfectly MATCHED motors, if one motor didn’t light (I.e., completely asymmetric unilateral thrust) the motors are so close to centerline that it wouldn’t do a St. Louis Arch. So two different motors , even with some thrust mismatch, would be even less likely to have a toxic flight. Something tells me the Estes Sidekick engineers designed the standard size model with a decent safety margin for only one motor lighting. If I remember right the FlisKits Deuces Wild was designed to recover safely even with only one motor igniting. It did however have angles thrust axes.

From a safety standpoint, I feel much more at risk with a cluster that you KNOW will be dangerously underpowered It you don’t get 100% of your motors to light.


A small spin tab to make the rocket rotate a bit, therefore continuously correcting any lateral aberration, wouldn’t hurt for insurance.

From a practical standpoint, may be tough to get two different propellants to LIGHT simultaneously, so tend to light easier/faster than others.
 
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