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Damn - I hope you are wrong...

Whoever said that one person can't change the world...

Never ate an undercooked bat...

Hahahahahaha,,
Man those undercooked bats will get ya every time, huh..

Hey,
It took me quite a few hours yesterday to jive out all of the material
but I ordered everything I need to start making what I think will be really
good quality face masks.. I don't know about those N95 rated masks but better then the cheapo's you buy..
I have to see how long it takes to make per each / how many I can come up with..
I figured I'll have for my wife and daughter and give em out to the police and fire and my towns volunteer ambulance..

Teddy

Ha,
I got ship notification for some of the material as I was typing that,, lol..
But it's coming from that crazy state Eric lives in WAYYYYY over there.. lol..
 
The numbers out of Italy are not accurate per Italian doctors themselves. They state that they report deaths with and deaths from as the same even though the vast majority of patients that have died with the virus actually died due to their existing conditions. Additionally, their mean age was something like 78. Using the Italian numbers to support a possible death toll in the US is absurd.
 
The numbers out of Italy are not accurate per Italian doctors themselves. They state that they report deaths with and deaths from as the same even though the vast majority of patients that have died with the virus actually died due to their existing conditions. Additionally, their mean age was something like 78. Using the Italian numbers to support a possible death toll in the US is absurd.

On the other hand, does it count the people who died of heart attacks or accidents or other things who would have usually survived, but they couldn’t get the care they needed due to the hospital being maxed out with COVID-19 patients? There’s a lot that is missed no matter how you count it. In a year, we will be able to count the number of people who died overall from ANY cause and compare it to the year before. That will tell us the overall impact.

What do you think it’s going to be here?
 
In a year, we will be able to count the number of people who died overall from ANY cause and compare it to the year before. That will tell us the overall impact.
I hope you are right. I think that in less than a year it will be back and we will be doing this all over again before we are finished with the first.

I am so saturated at this point. I have been receiving email notices from online vendors stating that due to the COVID, orders will be shipped out as it's safe to do so. This bothers me deeply and I wonder if anyone else sees the email as an opportunity to put their name back in the front of your brain. I mean, put the notice on their website so people that are about to order can see it. Place a notice when you order but not a mass email to everyone on their distribution list prior to. The level of bad behavior out of all of this is astonishing.

What will be interesting will be the sociological studies 50+ years down the road.
 
Hahahahahaha,,
Man those undercooked bats will get ya every time, huh..

Hey,
It took me quite a few hours yesterday to jive out all of the material
but I ordered everything I need to start making what I think will be really
good quality face masks.. I don't know about those N95 rated masks but better then the cheapo's you buy..
I have to see how long it takes to make per each / how many I can come up with.

I heard this morning that the CDC is recommending everyone wear mask now but also request that the N95's be used by medical folks. They said they really don't know how fast this is getting out of hand so it's best we all mask up.
 
The numbers out of Italy are not accurate per Italian doctors themselves. They state that they report deaths with and deaths from as the same even though the vast majority of patients that have died with the virus actually died due to their existing conditions. Additionally, their mean age was something like 78. Using the Italian numbers to support a possible death toll in the US is absurd.

On the other hand, does it count the people who died of heart attacks or accidents or other things who would have usually survived, but they couldn’t get the care they needed due to the hospital being maxed out with COVID-19 patients? There’s a lot that is missed no matter how you count it. In a year, we will be able to count the number of people who died overall from ANY cause and compare it to the year before. That will tell us the overall impact.

What do you think it’s going to be here?

I'm not certain I read what you wrote as it was intended Jarrett..
First,
I understand that there was some uncertainty about the count here in the US
because someone that passed from their underlying condition that was exasperated by their infection with Covid 19
either should have and wasn't or was and shouldn't have been counted..
I think that's the point you were making within Italy..
Second,
Your point about mean age totally skews the Italian count if compared to the US count..
And one thing we know is the older you are the worse off you are if infected..

That's also a good point Eric, but someone passing with a Covid 19 infection because they already had bronchitis and or asthma
should be counted in the death toll..
It's a whole different discussion for someone who has an advanced heart condition and passes of a heart attack
because he couldn't get proper medical care because of overburdened hospitals..

@Onebadhawk Take care of yourself, Teddy. Stay safe.

Heyy Kit,,
You too man..
Don't worry, you'll be flyin back at the Snow Ranch with your buddies soon for sure..
Kit, are you ok man ??
I'm sorry, I forget, you're with your wife, right ?? Kids grown and on their own..
I know I'm not quite around the corner, but do you have all you need ??


I hope you are right. I think that in less than a year it will be back and we will be doing this all over again before we are finished with the first.

I am so saturated at this point. I have been receiving email notices from online vendors stating that due to the COVID, orders will be shipped out as it's safe to do so. This bothers me deeply and I wonder if anyone else sees the email as an opportunity to put their name back in the front of your brain. I mean, put the notice on their website so people that are about to order can see it. Place a notice when you order but not a mass email to everyone on their distribution list prior to. The level of bad behavior out of all of this is astonishing.

What will be interesting will be the sociological studies 50+ years down the road.

A big giant yep Jarrett..
That's what I'm thinkin as well..
This coming fall it's going to be back..
Partly because we'll have our collective guard down..
Though I don't think it'll be near as bad as what we have coming in the next 2 or 3 weeks..

Yeah, price gouging, it's been reported all over, particularly with medical supplies ( PPE )..

I heard this morning that the CDC is recommending everyone wear mask now but also request that the N95's be used by medical folks. They said they really don't know how fast this is getting out of hand so it's best we all mask up.

Yeah, well that's why I'm goin to make some, lol..
If I can make enough I'll send some around to you guys..
I hope I can knock em out fairly quickly..

Teddy
 
Setting the issue of numbers of deaths/causes of deaths aside for a minute , here's a video I found of a town that said it was illegal for a store to sell nonessential items. I see there is a new video out where he says the town has recently reversed the regulation.
 
@Onebadhawk You remember correctly. Wife and I are doing well. Our kids are working from their homes and are experienced telecommuters having done it on a regular basis for the past few years. The grands are out of school for the duration. Our daughter is having social withdrawals now that she’s working from her home, too.

As for me, I was able to get four launches in so far this year. Even competed in a 12 rocket Dark Matter drag race and came in ‘almost’ dead last! The last place rocket blew an igniter. LOL

Take care!
 
All the same things are happening again like in 1918 - 1920 so I will take Grandma's first hand accounts seriously. No one alive today has living memories of the last time this happened so of course we will make the same mistakes.

Those darn exponential functions!
 
All the numbers to spread fear and they don't factor in population density in this bio warfare attack.
 
Here's the follow-up video Lugnut56 referred to, where that county reversed itself:

I've watched a lot of Steve Lehto's videos. I'm not a law nut, just found a lot of them to be interesting, informative, entertaining, and sometimes maddening ("Civil forfeiture").

Vermont has gone this way though, not allowing "essential businesses" to sell things determined not to be essential. A few other places too.

I work at Target. Good thing is that I think all Targets sell groceries now, most if not all have a CVS pharmacy, and of course Health supplies. So that qualifies Target stores to be open as essential compared to say a furniture store or a clothing store (or Hobby Lobby). It will pretty much take a state or local order to cause stores like Target, Wal-Mart, Walgreen, CVS, grocery stores, and so on to stop selling non-essential items. You're not gonna see any big chain to choose by themselves to stop selling non-essential items, with the result that customers would cut way back on shopping there (or stop completely) and go to stores that DO have non-essential items they want to get while also shopping for essentials.

It is a bit screwy though in the case of stores like Target and Wal-Mart that locally may be ordered not to sell non-essential items, because those stores (and many others these days) have drive-up services. So you can order things online, indicate when you plan to arrive (have to allow a 2 hour window, maybe 3 hours now), and use your cellphone to indicate when you have arrived and the order will be taken out to your car. That's where a ban on non-essential items makes little sense since the shoppers won't be inside of the store at all. What sense not allowing a local store to deliver drive-up items ordered online, when online places like Amazon would steal those sales (and usually local sales tax) from local businesses and take days to deliver what could be had by drive-up in a few hours.

Anyway.... I have been temporarily reassigned from my regular work task to do "Dedicated Cleaning". That's pretty much to sanitize frequently touched areas in the store, do a cycle of cleaning and repeat, repeat, repeat. Most of my time is spent on cleaning at closed cash registers (Cashiers are now cleaning their own after every guest goes thru), cleaning door handles of coolers/freezers (and other door handles), and various areas in electronics. A few other things/places as well, like information/scanner screens at help locations, wheelchair, and electric mobility scooters. I had also cleaned the Self Check-out registers, but that is now done by the self-check-out attendant after every guest has left (so now every register is cleaned in between use).

It was sorta odd how I got that task, I was asked to do one shift of it when the then-new dedicated cleaning program began. Got a lot of good feedback from the guests and the store leaders liked what i was doing. It is NOT rocket science, it is not hard to do. Seems like some others they tried, didn't take the task seriously enough or were not thorough enough, or whatever. A few others....refused. So, I'm one of the two main people doing that task now. I have been assured I get my previous job assignment back (which I really like) when this pandemic is over and the dedicated cleaning is no longer needed.

Am I concerned about catching the virus? Yes. But if I was deeply troubled, I'd take the 30 day Leave of Absence offer Target has for this. If things were to get as bad here (country-adjacent suburb west of Minneapolis) as in some other places, I may reconsider (bad thing would be to have taken a 30 day LOA a week ago and then have the 30 day LOA end if it peaks here in 3 weeks which is quite possible). I don't think I'll need to do that, but nice to know Target is backing up its employees far better, with special 75% pay LOA's, and 2-week 100% pay time off if I get the virus, than some other places in the news have.

I noticed a lot more guests wearing face masks and even gloves in the last week. I have been using gloves for cleaning at work, but not for everyday life. Every employee in the store be provided face masks soon (not sure if mandated or optional to wear). I ordered some today for my own use and also to wear at the store if we do not have masks in for awhile yet (maybe the store has them for employees already but I'm off this weekend). What I ordered won't be medical grade masks to protect me much from getting it (even if I COULD find N-95 masks to order, I'm not gonna be a jerk buying up masks that medical pros need). But they'll help in preventing others from catching it if I were to get it. So if every employee at Target wears them properly, that will help in not catching it from each other. And if every guest would wear a mask, that would greatly reduce the chance of an employee catching it from them.

Finally, this video on how the Czech Republic prevented a huge outbreak. Not just social distancing, and not just national stay at home orders. But also a requirement to wear facemasks when not at home.

 
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All the numbers to spread fear and they don't factor in population density in this bio warfare attack.
Low population density is definitely a factor, and person to person spread will clearly be slower due to an inherent social distancing due to low population density. But “slow spread” and “no spread” are two different things. Also realize that places with low population density have fewer hospitals and ICUs and ventilators. To my knowledge no one is expecting a vaccine to be available before every state runs its “curve” of the virus. You are braver than I am if you don’t fear the virus, but in my opinion you are foolish not to respect the risk the virus presents, particularly to the elderly and those with underlying chronic disorders.

I hope you and your family and friends never get this disease, but I also hope that, if unfortunately you do, that you have a mild case and recover completely and uneventfully. Barring that, I hope that if you fall into the non-neglible percentage (I won’t quote it because the number is a moving target) who need hospitalization, that it occurs when your local “curve” is at a level that your local med techs, nurses, doctors, other hospital staff members (all of whom are truly on the front lines, at risk of getting it, dying from it, spreading it to their families, and will be working long hours trying and sometimes failing to keep people alive despite their best efforts, dealing with both physical and emotional exhaustion), hospital beds and God forbid you need a ventilator, anyway, I hope that due to a COMBINATION of your apparent low population density, and people around you stepping up and taking responsibility to follow social distancing guidelines and wear masks when in public places, that your curve is flat and that the medical care you or your family or your friends is available.

Best wishes.
 
In a year, we will be able to count the number of people who died overall from ANY cause and compare it to the year before. That will tell us the overall impact.

Actually, I'm not sure that will give an accurate picture, either. I'm already hearing that traffic fatalities are down, violent crime is down, even the regular flu season deaths seems to be dropping faster than normal due to the social distancing. So I think the numbers will be pretty off in both the positive and negative from this.

I also question the seasonality of this one (thought I saw that elsewhere in this thread), isn't it hitting the southern hemisphere (just out of summer and beginning fall) pretty hard also?

I'm enough of an introvert that this really isn't bothering me at all. A good weekend was always one where I didn't have to get out of my PJs unless I was going to a rocket launch. :) I am lucky to (still) have a job that I am now doing from home, so kinda enjoying less time in traffic, not needing to buy gas, eating less fast food, etc. And finally going through things that have been in my pantry/fridge/freezer for way too long. I went grocery shopping for the first time since February yesterday, and thankfully got everything on my list (the local Walmart was quite well-stocked), so hopefully I won't have to go again until May.

I am curious to see how this "ends", obviously the distancing (when actually observed) helps to flatten the curve and reduce the overloading of the medical system, but it seems to me unless you end up with herd immunity (hard to do when fewer people are being exposed) or a vaccine (18 months?) or an outright cure(???) or that it does turn out to be seasonal (already commented), it makes it very hard to back off on the restrictions, as you'll only delay the surge until that happens. And with mixed levels of implementation both here and around the globe, seems like it will only shift the hot-spots around instead of actually giving the virus nowhere to spread so that the cases might run their course without continuing to expand (I like https://xkcd.com/2287/). If you could actually get the whole world to stop interacting for 2 weeks this would probably be over, but that ain't happening. The world is even smaller now than it was in 1918, where it sounds like soldiers were resulting in a good bit of the spread (and being a flu virus, I assume the seasonality helped to end things). I participated in a Stanford study (antibody test) today that is trying to determine how many people already had COVID-19 and perhaps didn't even know, I guess they're hoping that there might be more herd immunity than they previously assumed. I kinda doubt it, personally. While I was even on a cruise ship the last week of February/first week of March, I'm pretty confident I was never exposed. Heck, I rarely go a winter/spring without catching a cold at least once, and with the social distancing/more hand washing/less face touching/etc even that hasn't happened.
 
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Home isolation and non-essential travel bans will make a difference. It is hard to tell home much or how well the US will abide by it.

Initially blush, in GA, is that the seem to be following the order. I will know more tomorrow as I leave the house to go to work. The cars are not leaving the neighborhood, but that is just one community.
 
I've seen a big reduction in traffic on my city streets, but there still seem to be some tards who let their kids play in large groups in the streets. There are also the tards who come into the grocery store, get their food and meds, then congregate in front of the pharmacy, and chat away. My wife, who is a pharmacist, tries to tell them that if they get her sick, she won't be able to fill their meds next time (she's immuno-compromised due to having to take immuno-suppressant meds for psoritic arthritis), and a fair number of them look at her like "huh?".

Too much "me me me" mentality out there still.
 
I've seen a big reduction in traffic on my city streets, but there still seem to be some tards who let their kids play in large groups in the streets. There are also the tards who come into the grocery store, get their food and meds, then congregate in front of the pharmacy, and chat away. My wife, who is a pharmacist, tries to tell them that if they get her sick, she won't be able to fill their meds next time (she's immuno-compromised due to having to take immuno-suppressant meds for psoritic arthritis), and a fair number of them look at her like "huh?".

Too much "me me me" mentality out there still.
Wow, I feel for your wife. Sad people are so inconsiderate.
 
Wow, I feel for your wife. Sad people are so inconsiderate.

Me too. I am pretty happy people are staying at home. I am growing weary of the poor outcomes in our elderly.

I thought about going grocery shopping but will wait. The only thing I could use is some 2 carbon-containing beverages and cleaning supplies (don't really need it). It is Sunday and I will wait.
 
Over the last few decades, our society has become increasingly risk-averse...

This is demonstrated by the unbelievable plethora of legal codes and regulations...

Regulators have invaded every aspect of our lives from plastic straws and sugary drinks, to seat belts and bike helmets...

Some regulations, of course make sense and are relatively less intrusive, while others prove excessive and invasive...

This of course is all done in the name of safety, or for the children, or for the planet or whatever it takes to convince us that it is for our own good...

Risk-aversion leads to over regulation and over regulation at this point appears to be hindering the search for a cure or a vaccine for the Wuhan virus...

Perhaps the greatest example of risk aversion I have ever witnessed is the current economic shut-down in response to this virus...

We have shuttered the greatest engine of prosperity in the history of the world in order to fight a virus that, while highly contagious, is not particularly deadly to the general-population...

We are going suffer the effects of this strategy for a very long, long time...

And we have leaders that will oppose ending the shut-down no matter what...

We will be bombarded with tales of this or that person who fell ill from the Wuhan virus after returning to work...

We will be lectured on science, and we will be told that we are risking blood for money...

Well, as a member of one of the at risk groups, I am not willing to risk massive-poverty by closing the economy...

Let's get back to work, we can manage the risk...
 
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Risk-aversion leads to over-regulation and over-regulation at this point appears to be hindering the search for a cure or a vaccine for the Wuhan virus...

What evidence do you have of this statement? This virus appears to have started less than 6 months ago. The fact that we have a vaccine in a trial on humans is a medical miracle. We have bypassed every safety precaution to bring it to the market. I would say that regulations have been ignored and have not gotten in the way in the slight.

There are actually several vaccines in testing. At my facility, we are not part of this trial, but we have entered several clinical trials of medications.
 
Perhaps that is the case at this point, but I recall a lot of bickering and finger pointing initially...

The administration and state and local governments are wisely suspending regulations...

Many of these regulations were never needed in the first place, given their tendency to reduce innovation and access to care...

Not to mention their restriction on American liberty...
 
Perhaps that is the case at this point, but I recall a lot of bickering and finger pointing initially...

The administration and state and local governments are wisely suspending regulations...

Many of these regulations were never needed in the first place, given their tendency to reduce innovation and access to care...

Not to mention their restriction on American liberty...

I think the administration is currently encouraging innovation. Initially, they were trying to reduce overreaction. China created a lack of proper intelligence through false information. Unfortunately, this resulted in many countries not preparing and many deaths.
 
Agreed...

And the WHO carried their water and continues to do so...
 
his of course is all done in the name of safety, or for the children, or for the planet or whatever it takes to convince us that it is for our own good...

I'm assuming you have never scraped a child's brains off a highway because they were not properly restrained, ejected and broken open everywhere.

I'm also assuming you have never found a baby properly restrained in a car seat with everyone else in the car dead and the baby only had very minor injuries.

I have, first hand, and more. Safety devices save lives. This is why we have the laws we have. When you think beyond yourself, you see things differently.
 
I'm assuming you have never scraped a child's brains off a highway because they were not properly restrained, ejected and broken open everywhere.

I'm also assuming you have never found a baby properly restrained in a car seat with everyone else in the car dead and the baby only had very minor injuries.

I have, first hand, and more. Safety devices save lives. This is why we have the laws we have. When you think beyond yourself, you see things differently.

I’m assuming you didn’t read the whole post because...

It’s clearly stated, some regulations make sense...

Or is it something else...
 
I think this video simulating the pandemic should be essential viewing for anyone who asks questions, like "is this really necessary?"



In summary, the simulations clearly show that the best way to stop a pandemic is to identify and quarantine infected people right away. We in the US didn't do that, so now we have to do everything possible to stop the spread. (Note the effect of a single grocery store in a community on the spread of the pandemic at ~17:30. Also noteworthy is the effect of a few social distance cheaters--it's not good.)

Because we didn't act swiftly and decisively at the beginning of the pandemic, it's going to take a long time and cost a ton of money to eradicate the virus.
 
I’m assuming you didn’t read the whole post because...

It’s clearly stated, some regulations make sense...

Or is it something else...

Your whole post mocks the idea of regulations. Yes, you qualified it by saying some made sense, but it is clear you don't believe it.

Something else?

Yes.

Nobody is stating impacts to the economy by this pandemic response are not severe. Especially to low-income, tipped employees that now have zero income. I am sure the economic impacts are very much a grave concern with local, State, and Federal governments. Even hospitals aren't immune to serious financial concerns with this disease.

What do you think the economic impacts would be if a large amount of American's were killed by this disease? An even larger amount were out of work because they are ill? When overcrowded hospitals aren't able to treat this disease and every other issue that requires medical care? In addition to people's live at stake, the economic cost would be even greater than what it is for the response we are taking.

Italy is finally showing signs of this virus slowing down. Hopefully we follow soon. In the meantime, think of others, stay inside, and wash your hands.
 
Your whole post mocks the idea of regulations. Yes, you qualified it by saying some made sense, but it is clear you don't believe it...


...When overcrowded hospitals aren't able to treat this disease and every other issue that requires medical care...

I reject this statement entirely, I am "mocking" over-regulation which is clear...

I keep hearing this and reject this as well...

CDC estimates that influenza was associated with more than 35.5 million illnesses, more than 16.5 million medical visits, 490,600 hospitalizations, and 34,200 deaths during the 2018–2019 influenza season. This burden was similar to estimated burden during the 2012–2013 influenza season.

490,600 HOSPITALIZATIONS due to the flu in 2018-2019...

Why were we not concerned about overcrowded hospitals last season...

Obviously, they were not the only patient load at the time...

I'm calling BS on this whole fiasco...

You can believe the narrative...
 
Hahahahahaha,,
Man those undercooked bats will get ya every time, huh..

Hey,
It took me quite a few hours yesterday to jive out all of the material
but I ordered everything I need to start making what I think will be really
good quality face masks.. I don't know about those N95 rated masks but better then the cheapo's you buy..
I have to see how long it takes to make per each / how many I can come up with..
I figured I'll have for my wife and daughter and give em out to the police and fire and my towns volunteer ambulance..

Teddy

Ha,
I got ship notification for some of the material as I was typing that,, lol..
But it's coming from that crazy state Eric lives in WAYYYYY over there.. lol..

I've been working my way through 25 of the the Fitted Mask Updated Pattern here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2559223211033116/files/ It makes a really nice mask, though it's more labor intensive than the standard square/pleated masks. They'll cover the N95 face masks and fit well. The main page for that group has some how to videos for speeding up production as well.
 
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