Nobody doing Remote control launch vehicle ?

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modeler

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Hi

Completely newbie in rocket hobby, but decade veteran in RC hobby.

Question, what prohibits to launch a rocket model from canister or even more aggressively a VLS unit in boat, I have seen rc boat model launch missile model vertically, but never in scale looking; and never see a TEL vehicle crawls to a spot and launch a rocker under remote control, two tech issue in my way:

1, I saw a long metal wire (usual 2 rocket length) to keep rocket straight during the liftoff stage, what the limit in shortening that wire, or other possible method to hold the rocket straight during liftoff.
The reason to have that wire, my speculation is: Rocket doesn't not have sufficient aerodynamic correction force to keep it stable in liftoff stage or the engine generates non-concentric thrust during the liftoff, but what else.
2, do we have to launch rocket vertically always? for safety reason? how about tilt certain degree like a katsyusha?

thx
 

ttabbal

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We keep them vertical because a rocket, even a little model, can cause some pretty good injuries if it hits someone. There are methods to deal with the guide rod, but most of them are too complex and/or expensive for model rockets.

Due to safety and government issues, you won't get help around here for horizontal launching. If you want your vehicles to shoot things, try the scale battleship guys. They have some that shoot ball bearings with CO2 and such. That sort of thing is much easier to contain. With the FAA actions against model aircraft, I would think an RC hobbyist would want to avoid any more government regulation. The rocketry groups had to fight a long legal battle not so many years ago, I doubt they want to encourage more legal issues.
 

bclark989

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Your guess is correct.

"Restoring force" from the fins of a rocket is a function of the rocket's velocity. When it takes off, its velocity is starting from zero, which means your restoring force is starting from zero. After the first few tenths of a second, the rocket is aerodynamically stable, which is why we use a launch rod or rail (I think this is what you translated as "wire"). We can't fly without the rail because we have no idea where the rocket might end up pointed in that first fraction of a second after ignition. Wind, blast deflection, pad angle, construction imperfections, and probably a number of other factors pretty much guarantee that if the rocket isn't on a rod or rail, its not taking off and staying pointed straight up.

Purposely deflecting the rod or rail away from vertical isn't recommended. The NAR safety code says no further than 30° from vertical. TRA's HPR code says no greater than 20°. I believe some waivers will also specify an angle limit in a specific directions.

It wouldn't be difficult to build a launch pad on an RC boat, but using it would go against a lot of our standard safety stuff, and I think its just not an idea high on people's lists of things to try.
 

TopRamen

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This is obviously some Haji or the Feds poking us with a stick.
DO NOT FEED!
 

TopRamen

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This is obviously some Haji or the Feds poking us with a stick.
DO NOT FEED!

We are likely going to have another terrorist attack any day now, so let us collectively pray that they don't ever incorporate our rockets into their mentally deficient agendas.
 

Zeus-cat

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2, do we have to launch rocket vertically always? for safety reason? how about tilt certain degree like a katsyusha?

thx
The rocketry safety code prohibits launching at angles greater than 30 degrees from vertical so your Katsyusha idea is not allowed. It would be awesome though.
 

cerving

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This is obviously some Haji or the Feds poking us with a stick.
DO NOT FEED!

We are likely going to have another terrorist attack any day now, so let us collectively pray that they don't ever incorporate our rockets into their mentally deficient agendas.
The reality is that rockets are a pretty inefficient way of delivering any payload. There are much easier, cheaper, safer, and more easily obtainable delivery methods for these purposes... enough said. I doubt that any serious terrorist would consider anything resembling a hobby rocket for their nefarious purposes... it's probably easier to buy something already militarized. There are plenty of countries that have stuff up for sale...
 

tomsteve

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The reality is that rockets are a pretty inefficient way of delivering any payload. There are much easier, cheaper, safer, and more easily obtainable delivery methods for these purposes... enough said. I doubt that any serious terrorist would consider anything resembling a hobby rocket for their nefarious purposes... it's probably easier to buy something already militarized. There are plenty of countries that have stuff up for sale...
i wouldnt get too complacent with that thought. IED's are just that- IMPROVISED explosive devises.
plus theres 1 or 2 satellites circling the earth that got there under rocket power.
 

tomsteve

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for anyone intersted
katyusha
are a type of rocket artillery first built and fielded by the Soviet Union in World War II. Multiple rocket launchers such as these deliver explosives to a target area more quickly than conventional artillery, but with lower accuracy and requiring a longer time to reload.
 

Rex R

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couple of thoughts. given the size of most rc boats and barges*, one would think that micro max size rockets would be about right to come anywhere near scale. of course the usual problems of recovery of that size rocket would be a challenge.
*when last I looked a 'standard' size barge was 24" x 48"
Rex
 

bobkrech

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Hi

Completely newbie in rocket hobby, but decade veteran in RC hobby.........

2, do we have to launch rocket vertically always? for safety reason? how about tilt certain degree like a katsyusha?

thx
It is not only for safety. Launching a rocket horizontally can be construed as using the rocket as a weapon, and that could get you an all-expense paid extended vacation at Club Fed. BATFE and HS don't have a sense of humor....
 

Zeus-cat

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A model of a truck carrying 16 rockets. The katyusha was also known as Stalin's Organ. 99.99% of you have it wrong; it was called that because of the sound it made when they launched the 16 rockets.

Katy 007CCKW 352.jpg

A battery of katyushas firing. You would not want to be on the receiving end of that!
thWDG5NX6H.jpg
 

modeler

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Anyone has experience launching from a canister? such as a TOPOL M canister whose TEL vehicle is what I want to model now, in 1/20 scale, the canister can be about 10cm in diameter and 90cm in length.
Is that big enough to fit a small rocket, guided by rail.
 

burkefj

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I've flown a rocket out of a pvc tube as the guide, that rocket had curved folding fins that I got from a surplus online place, the pvc pipe was 1 meter long, rocket was about .75 meters long, I used a high thrust 24mm motor, flew well. Diameter of the rocket/fins was about 3cm.

Frank
 

dr wogz

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I've often thought of making a mobile launcher too.. Some tracked vehicle, but more about a 1/10 or 1/8 sale vehicle.. I've made some bombs from rocket parts for my R/C planes. and yes, they dropped when the switch was flipped!

From what I understand, "katyusha" type rockets & launchers are still in use today, but in a few "questionable" countries and for "questionable" purposes..

I've read a few things about 'tube launching', but I'll leave it there...


Modeller, why not tell us a bit more about yourself, what your interests are, where you're from..
 
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ksaves2

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I've seen pictures of an HPR Patriot being launched of a scale carrier. Was in one of the magazines and was pointing appropriately straight up. Kurt
 

modeler

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I am just planning my build now, biggest issue in canister flying is to design proper guide rail.

The typical guide rail will flex and swing a little,and the rocket can spin along the guide too, both are non-issue for open launch pad, but in canister too much flex can let the rocket rub canister and all weird thing from there.

Either go with small diameter long thin rocket or using two guide rail or design a U-shape rail that the rail is lock to canister and rocket is skid through the rail, that it 100% locked to straight position.
 

MikeyDSlagle

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for anyone intersted
katyusha
are a type of rocket artillery first built and fielded by the Soviet Union in World War II. Multiple rocket launchers such as these deliver explosives to a target area more quickly than conventional artillery, but with lower accuracy and requiring a longer time to reload.
Ahhh. I googled "katsyusha", that's what the OP had said originally, and some anime crap came up. Lost interest. Lol

I've often thought of making a mobile launcher too.. Some tracked vehicle, but more about a 1/10 or 1/8 sale vehicle.. I've made some bombs from rocket parts for my R/C planes. and yes, they dropped when the switch was flipped!

From what I understand, "katyusha" type rockets & launchers are still in use today, but in a few "questionable" countries and for "questionable" purposes..

I've read a few things about 'tube launching', but I'll leave it there...


Modeller, why not tell us a bit more about yourself, what your interests are, where you're from..
Uhmm. We (USA) still use "katyusha" type launchers, in the form of the MLRS. Well actually the M142 HIMARS, since it is a truck and the M270 (MLRS) is a track vehicle built around the Bradley. Think that iis about as in depth as I'll get.

Mikey D
 

cerving

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There was a piece in the old NAR Model Rocketry magazine around 1972 about a guy that launched a model rocket from an R/C submarine. It was pretty interesting all the things he had to do to make it work. Wish I still had the issue...
 

modeler

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almost complete my rc vehicle, now need to figure out erection mechanism, gonna take long time to build everything and test.
But for now my questions:
1, what is min launch rod length for a 50mm rocket. (Estes crayon). I have to use 3mm carbon rod x 2 pieces on both side to hold and guide the rocket, i.e. transport, erect and launch.
2, how big is the ignite impact? don't tell me it is huge, I need more realistic idea, how far clearance I should leave it from end piece to the bottom of engine so my truck won't be damaged.
3, my ignition circuit will be 8.4v lipo battery through a 7A rc switch, controlled from receiver. enough power?
the truck going to resemble this SRM.

 

Nytrunner

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If your model looks and works like the vehicle in that picture, this will be amazing.
For an A/B/C motor, I'd say try and hang the nozzle an inch to 1.5" off the back. Probably a couple inches for a D. UNless, you make the rear panels of your launcher out of aluminum, or brush a Thin coat of epoxy on those surfaces. Then you you'd just have to wipe the soot off (in theory).

Min rod length is dependent on how fast the motor gets your rocket going. Many use OpenRocket, a free simulation software. I believe you want your Lo-power rocket to be going 60+ ft/s at rod exit.
 

Incongruent

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Can you send a picture of your truck by a ruler? If you have enough acceleration in low wind, far back rail buttons and a launch rail only a little longer than the rocket could be enough. As for the blast, the heat will scorch plastic and make it sag a bit, and on occasion, motors shoot out various things like debris, sparks, nozzles, etc. If I were doing this, I would use some steel sheet and make a blast deflector. A hardware store will have sheet metal and tin snips to cut it. 1/2mm is thick is good. A 45 degree angle tilt and the corners bent up (around 45 degrees works) to form a channel will problably be effective.

A bad diagram:
Ignore the dots.


..|.......... |
..|______|
....|___|

.........//
........//
.......//
......//
.....//
....//
...//


Firing: (fire represented by #)


...|...........|
...|______|
.....|___|
......# #
......# # //
.....# # //
.....# #// .........[Vehicle Here]
....# #//
...# #//
#...#//
....#// <-- Flame deflected away


Firing without blast deflector: (fire represented by #)


.....|...........|
.....|______|
........|___|
.........# #
.........# #
.........# #.........[Vehicle Here]
.........# #
.........# #
.........# #
##### ##### <-- Flame deflects off ground toward vehicle.

I've heard that thick paint will ablate away, if you weren't concerned with looks, you can paint the back really heavily
...

Aluminum melted in direct heat, steel works much better.

Is the rocket you you plan on launching stable? Does it have fins?
(yes, you could do gas-dynamic stabilization, but it requires... ahh... cutting large holes in the rocket...


Good Luck!
 
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Zeus-cat

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Here is what I suggest for some tests. I would make a blast deflector that is about a foot (30 cm) in diameter. Then I would glue or epoxy excess material from building the vehicle to the blast deflector at various distances from the launch rod. Launch your rocket using the same size motor that you want to use for launching from the vehicle. After the launch inspect the material you glue to the deflector. Was any of it damaged? If no, repeat the launch a few times to see if it is still undamaged. If undamaged your vehicle might survive the launch undamaged. However, if the material was damaged, especially the stuff closest to the launch rod, you have a good idea how badly damaged your vehicle might be.
 

Incongruent

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I think it would be more effective to deflect the flame away than make the vehicle survive it, basically with an angled deflector you are "coating the material, but with a removable and separated coating.

Why take chances? Just don't let the flame get close enough to or on the vehicle.

The flame bucket/ channel also lasts longer, since it's curling the flame away instead of delflecting it away. Think of shooting into a curved tube (or angled plate) vs at a perpendicular, flat plate.

It looks cool too, since the flame is still intact and not spread. You should get smoke and fire shooting away from the back of the vehicle. The only possible problem: if the rocket gets stuck on the rod or rail... You have a (problably slow) rocket car. There's forward thrust since the gasses are thrown backwards.


However, this could change depending on the motor you will use. If you aren't sure, post a pic with a scale (a known distance or ruler, not a balance) or the dimensions of the missile model and I, as well as many others I'm sure, will be glad to help.

I agree with testing, just not the flat plate idea. Most if not all large rockets use some kind of gradual flame director, since its more feasible to direct the flame where it can go than fireproof everything. Also shockwaves from and the erosiveness of near hypersonic jets of gas (exaggeration, it was only around Mach 4.) ... A water cooled copper deflector (one of the 4) proposed for the Saturn V suffered from the latter.


-Tony
 

modeler

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I got the new app working, here the truck, need to do erection parts now.

1479087214965.jpg


1479087226453.jpg


1479087236934.jpg


1479087247033.jpg
 

dave carver

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This was done years ago with a converted Barbie car and a Patriot from a launch canister. He converted the Barbie car to have RC control plus remote launch capabilities. Featured in an old High Power Mag. Don't ask me which issue, my collection was destroyed :( (very long story)
 

Nytrunner

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That looks great! I've never been intimidated by a Crayon rocket before.

Have you decided what you'll use to retard the flame damage?
 
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