No Relief until next Summer..

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MaxQ

Tripoli 2747
Joined
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..IF we're lucky, and vigilent.



Well, don't hold your breath waiting for fact to win over fiction.

It appears from this posting that we have more legal battles to fight and therefore, spend your HPR motor money next year on the defense fund.

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NAR/TRA Lawsuit: BATFE unloads 900 page gorilla
Industry News by RPNewswire
Tuesday, October 17, 2006
WASHINGTON, District of Columbia USA -- In the lawsuit by the National Association of Rocketry and Tripoli Rocketry Association vs. the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, Judge Reggie B. Walton has issued a scheduling order, abstaining from making a ruling, thereby setting the case aside for the present time.

This means that hobby rocketry enthusiasts nation-wide who fly rocket motors with greater than G impulse must adhere to the federal ruling that took effect on October 10, 2006, requiring a federal explosives permit for purchase and storage of single-use motors and reload kits with greater than 62.5 grams of assembled propellant weight.

At the status conference, attorneys for the BATFE presented the court with over 900 pages of documentation of the testing procedures outlined by the agency and conducted by the U.S. Air Force Research Laboratory at Tyndall Air Force Base, Florida. The 15 minute time allotment for today's status hearing would not provide adequate time for plaintiff's attorneys to review the material and allow for comment.

Attorneys for the plaintiff indicated from their review of the documents filed in U.S. District Court on Friday, October 13, 2006 by the BATFE, that the report was basically fictional, and asked the judge to see the full 900+ pages of documentation, since the results appeared to be scientifically impossible.

Because of this, Judge Walton had no other choice but to establish a court-mandated scheduling order dictating the timeframes for appropriate response and filings. The judge so ordered:

The documentation be provided to the plaintiff's attorneys and filed with the court by October 31, 2006.
The plaintiff's to file a supplemental complaint to the court no later than December 18, 2006.
The defendant to respond to the plaintiff's complaint and file with the court no later than January 5, 2007.
Any motions for disposition to be filed with court no later than January 31, 2007.
Any oppositions to those motions to be file with the court no later than February 28, 2007.
Any response to those oppositions to be filed with the court no later than March 23, 2007.
Return to a status conference to held at 9:00AM, July 27, 2006.
While it was apparent that Judge Walton's patience for the BATFE was wearing thing, his temperament for procedural matters was well in hand. The above-mentioned timeline was the only possible outcome given the depth and breadth of information deluged onto the court, combined with the judge's heavy case load.

This time-line extends the lawsuit well into next year's flying season and the hardship placed on hobby rocketry enthusiasts across the country, as well as cuts deeply into the gross sales figures of hobby rocketry motor manufacturers. Even more so, this will increase the on-going legal expenses for the National Association of Rocketry and the Tripoli Rocketry Association.

The drawn out timeframe of this litigation should be a concern for all parties, given that the BATFE has developed an extensive back-log of applications and renewals, with renewal time-frames slipping beyond six months, in some cases over nine. Should the bulk of hobby rocketry enthusiasts who wish to participate in flying regulated propellants submit to licensing requirements by the federal government, the agency, who can't meet the demand of servicing existing permit holders, will not be able to meet the demand of new applicants.

Attachment: U.S. DISTRICT SCHEDULING ORDER (PDF - 51K)

https://www.rocketryplanet.com/content/view/872/28/
 
".......given that the BATFE has developed an extensive back-log of applications and renewals, with renewal time-frames slipping beyond six months, in some cases over nine."

"Should the bulk of hobby rocketry enthusiasts who wish to participate in flying regulated propellants submit to licensing requirements by the federal government, the agency, who can't meet the demand of servicing existing permit holders, will not be able to meet the demand of new applicants."

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They make applying for their permit sound so easy in their rulings.

I suggest we follow TRA/NAR's recent request and continue to write al concerned and tell them just how easy it is....and exactly how long it takes.
 
"No relief till next summer". If then. Then they will redefine the regulations to govern high burn rate chemicals and it will all begin again.
 
That's it then, I guess..... I'm a criminal.

<insert wicked grin> You'll never take me alive, copper!
 
:( :( :( :( :( Great, we're all criminals now. Makes me wonder what we're supposed to do with what we have? If LEUP is so easy to get(It isn't, I tried) what can we do to keep within the rules? The BATF changed the rules, now we're criminals. I have no criminal record of any kind, now are they going to start coming after people? I don't have the financial resources to fight a felony charge against me. I have a rather decent collection of motors, so, what now? Destroy them? NO!! Help, what are we supposed to do?:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
 
Originally posted by MaxQ
".......given that the BATFE has developed an extensive back-log of applications and renewals, with renewal time-frames slipping beyond six months, in some cases over nine."

"Should the bulk of hobby rocketry enthusiasts who wish to participate in flying regulated propellants submit to licensing requirements by the federal government, the agency, who can't meet the demand of servicing existing permit holders, will not be able to meet the demand of new applicants."

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They make applying for their permit sound so easy in their rulings.

I suggest we follow TRA/NAR's recent request and continue to write al concerned and tell them just how easy it is....and exactly how long it takes.

I'd also suggest waiting until we get an official comment from NAR/TRA. I would like to see the authors data supporting the assertion of additional delays in new applications. From the people I've talked to who have renewed LEUPs, their original remains valid until the renewal is complete, so long as the paperwork is filed and the payment has been made.
 
Ok, my first application failed, so I never got an LEUP anyhow, so, without an LEUP what happens? So, now the ATF KNOWS I've got something, they don't know what, even without flying them, I'm a criminal. Besides, wasn't the ATF forbidden from making new rules while this case is pending? How is this possible?:mad: :mad:
 
No expert on federal legislation but how is it that the ATF can simply (and conveniently) "redefine" the law on a lark? I don't see how this process occurs.

I'm am NOT opposed to regulation, but wish only for an across the board variance or exemption for the the rocketry hobby. Otherwise make the permit process clear, simple and intuitive.
 
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