No PIN?

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cherokeej

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Went to Wally World yesterday and made a small purchase. Pennies over $16.

The checkout clerk rang up the item, and I swiped my debit card. I'm standing there, watching the little terminal, waiting for it too prompt me to enter my PIN, and the clerk hands me the bag and receipt, and says "Thank you for your purchase."

Since when do vendors have the option of circumventing the security protocols for use of bank debit cards? It is a bit upsetting to know that if some less-than-honest person gets hold of my card, that they can spend away without knowing the PIN that goes with the card.

Anyone know what's up with that?

Maybe I'm off the mark, but it seems to me that the security protocols are there for a reason.
 
Depends on the type of debit card you use. I have one that can be used as credit and/or debit & if the clerk enters pruchase as credit, no PIN required.
 
Depends on the type of debit card you use. I have one that can be used as credit and/or debit & if the clerk enters pruchase as credit, no PIN required.

That's how my healthcare flexible spending card works. Technically a debit card, but used like credit.
 
Here's the scoop. You don't pin if your purchase is under 50 bucks. That's the new policy. I don't like it either. I told them on more than one occasion, that it makes it too easy for someone to use a stolen card.
 
A lot of merchants in my area have started doing this, mostly if the total is under a certain amount. I've found it is likely $25 on $10, depending upon the merchant.

Note that your CC company knows if the PIN was entered or not, just like they know if the card was swiped or was a manual entry. Therefore, as they have no defense against non-repudiation, you can deny the charges. The merchants who do so understand that they are accepting increased charge-backs in exchange for increased convenience.

Your PIN is not a security feature like a password, it is a security feature like a signature--designed to allow the bank to prove it was you who made the purchase, not to keep your card from being used (although both features do some of the other's lifting). It sucks if you are a security conscious consumer, but is enjoyed by those who value convenience. Either way, the bank considers it protection for them.

You didn't think the bank was working to protect you, did you :) ?
 
I always have to enter my pin, whatever the purchase price, if I use my debit card as a debit card. I got 2 cans of Monster just yesterday from Food Lion and had to enter my pin. Unless you have a straight bank card with no Mastercard, Visa, Discover, Amex...logo anywhere on it; the store can and often will run it as a credit card. And as others have mentioned. There is a threshold depending on the store, where they do not require a signature for transactions for convenience sake.
 
I just got a notice this Monday, that my debit card may have been compromised again. Third time in about a year and a half. The life span of my card has been about 6 months lately. Last time was Home Depot, this time they just said merchant, did not even name who. I'm going back to cash for most purchases, sick of monitoring my account till the new card arrives.
 
I just got a notice this Monday, that my debit card may have been compromised again. Third time in about a year and a half. The life span of my card has been about 6 months lately. Last time was Home Depot, this time they just said merchant, did not even name who. I'm going back to cash for most purchases, sick of monitoring my account till the new card arrives.

What I hate about this is that they won't tell a person where it was compromised. That's wacky. My company had a problem with the fleet cards being compromised. The fleet company would not reveal which chain or gas station was the culprit. It's all about $$.
 
^^^ Yeah, it's been a while since I've swiped my card. The "Tap" thing is annoying though. NFC money extraction just seems wrong. My debit card is blocked for that. I'm setting a very low limit on my credit card for NFC purchases.
 
Yeah NFC seems to have had trouble catching on. Its touted as a feature on most current smartphones, but even working in the payments industry I can count on two hands the number of cases I've seen of people really using it.
 
The same thing happened to me at McDonalds in Blythe. My bill was about 8$, I swiped my card, was preparing for the pin screen when the "Approved" screen popped up. Looked up at the lady with a puzzled look and she said if the purchase is under some amount there is no PIN required. I don't like this.

My daughter dropped her card at the gas station in a hurry to avoid a confrontation. Fortunately she runs only a very small balance and the thief's attempted purchase exceeded the amount available. Naturally she had the card shut down and was issued a new one.

Stupid Rule #1: Don't hang out with stupid people.
Stupid Rule #2: Don't go to stupid places.
Stupid Rule #3: Don't do stupid things.
 
I would love to see the gold single and double eagles come back, alone with silver dollars.
At least if the paper money falls to crap, like we all know it will eventually...
We will actually have some coinage that is real gold and silver that is really worth something.
 
I don't use a debit card. I use a credit card. Last I checked, you are only responsible for $50 max on a fraudulent charge with a CC. Debit, they can empty your bank account and you are S.O.L.

Many banks do offer protection now, but I'd want to be sure before using a Debit card. I do have a Debit card, but do not even know the PIN myself! Never used an ATM in my life.
 
I have 2 accounts one with debit card, other with checks no debit card. The savings stay in the account without a debit card and keep just enough to get by for a few days in the account with the debit card. Although, the debit card keeps getting compromised, never had any problems. The bank monitors the accounts also, looking for any unusual transactions. They once stopped a transaction on my sons account for 2 plane tickets to India, which was not of his doing.
 
Yeah, the Debit cards may have gotten safer over the last few years. I know when they first came out, they were not.
 
It works, in a pinch...
Especially when the swipe strip is being finicky.
I normally don't like it either but, would rather use it than someone keying it in.
The EMV was available back years ago.
I had one with Fleet bank, later they were bought out by a bigger bank named: Bank of America.

It only works if the vendor is setup for it.
I work retail and where I work, they can't use the chip / pin combo either.


JD

Yeah NFC seems to have had trouble catching on. Its touted as a feature on most current smartphones, but even working in the payments industry I can count on two hands the number of cases I've seen of people really using it.
 
I would love to see the gold single and double eagles come back, alone with silver dollars.
At least if the paper money falls to crap, like we all know it will eventually...
We will actually have some coinage that is real gold and silver that is really worth something.

Bad idea! The 1% would buy all the gold and silver and leave us with nothing. At least with paper you can start a fire to stay warm....

Mike
 
Bad idea! The 1% would buy all the gold and silver and leave us with nothing. At least with paper you can start a fire to stay warm....

Mike

Misunderstanding I think. Paper would be done away with altogether. Only coinage money.
150 years ago when paper money was being created, it took along time for people to understand that a piece of paper was worth alot more than what it was physically worth. And that brings us to present day. I think it was Nixon removed the value of paper by not supporting it with gold. I think it was FDR that recalled all gold & silver coinage to be replaced with paper. After WWII people had no choice but understand and accept paper money as full legal tender.
At the push of a button today, paper money can become worth less than the paper itself is worth.
Remove paper money, replace it with gold and silver coinage.
$100 bill is the maximum amount printed to make the ease of transportating large sums harder.
Imagine how hard it would be for the drug lords move $10 mill in $50 double eagles? Think about it.
 
I don't use a debit card. I use a credit card. Last I checked, you are only responsible for $50 max on a fraudulent charge with a CC. Debit, they can empty your bank account and you are S.O.L.

Many banks do offer protection now, but I'd want to be sure before using a Debit card. I do have a Debit card, but do not even know the PIN myself! Never used an ATM in my life.
Same here - and many people seem to forget that entering your PIN in public is generally NOT a good idea...
 
My standard practice — credit card for everything (I pay off may balance every month), *never* use a debit card.

Why? With a credit card, you have a high level of protection against fraud. With a debit card, you have (essentially) no protection. Why people use debit cards, is beyond me, but then again, if everybody was like me, the world would be a very boring place.
 
The rules are different here in Canada for debit cards. The onus is on the card issuer to prove that a disputed transaction is the responsibility of the card user. In fact, when my card was compromised one time, I was contacted, was able to enter a branch of my bank and get another card. I didn't lose a cent. I can change my PIN as well.
 
How sure are you about this?

I did a quick search and my research showed that businesses are allowed to refuse payments in all pennies, or anything over a $20 if they want, just by setting their own policy.

All I can tell you is I bought a used, rather ragedy car back in 1982 and gained finance through threw the used dealership. I offered cash dollars for partial payment one week and they refused. I told them I wanted in writing why they refused my cash money partial payment which they provided.
They put in their document that full payment was due and they declined cash payments as partial payment.
I took it to the district attorney, who referred me to a local lawyer.
It cost me $750 to discharge almost $1800 because of the financer refused any kind of payment towards the loan.
The judge stated that in his judgment that no partial of any size can be refused in any means of tender, and law says that refussing such payment deams the debt paid in full and the loan was dismissed.
I assumed from that, that my cash was being denied as legal tender from the Judges Judgement.
That's all I can tell ya.
 
All I can tell you is I bought a used, rather ragedy car back in 1982 and gained finance through threw the used dealership. I offered cash dollars for partial payment one week and they refused. I told them I wanted in writing why they refused my cash money partial payment which they provided.
They put in their document that full payment was due and they declined cash payments as partial payment.
I took it to the district attorney, who referred me to a local lawyer.
It cost me $750 to discharge almost $1800 because of the financer refused any kind of payment towards the loan.
The judge stated that in his judgment that no partial of any size can be refused in any means of tender, and law says that refussing such payment deams the debt paid in full and the loan was dismissed.
I assumed from that, that my cash was being denied as legal tender from the Judges Judgement.
That's all I can tell ya.

I've never heard of that before, but I'll defer to the judge on that one. Heh.

A long time ago I remember being told that if you write the phrase "paid in full" on a check and it gets deposited, even if it's just a partial payment (such as a monthly payment on a car loan) then legally you're free of the debt. It's up to the person cashing the check to call you out and return the check for one that doesn't say that on it. I sort of have my doubts on that one.
 
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I've never heard of that before, but I'll defer to the judge on that one. Heh.

A long time ago I remember being told that if you write the phrase "paid in full" on a check and it gets deposited, even if it's just a partial payment (such as a monthly payment on a car load) then legally you're free of the debt. It's up to the person cashing the check to call you out and return the check for one that doesn't say that on it. I sort of have my doubts on that one.

Only if you put "Account Number Paid in Full" can that be happen. Paid in Full can refer to anything. It must be specific.
 
A long time ago I remember being told that if you write the phrase "paid in full" on a check and it gets deposited, even if it's just a partial payment (such as a monthly payment on a car loan) then legally you're free of the debt. It's up to the person cashing the check to call you out and return the check for one that doesn't say that on it. I sort of have my doubts on that one.

According to the first three hits (this last one is snopes) I got in google searching for it, not true.
 
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