Nike Smoke: What to fly it on?

[Neil]

Well, it doesent look like I will be able to get hold of a J350 for my Nike Smoke... But, what we do have: I357T and I161W. I also have the money to buy four G80Ts or 4 G40Ws. And my rocket has four 29MM outboard motors... We all know what THAT adds up to...

So, which is easier to cluster? White lighting or Blue Thunder? And what is the best ignitor to use for this kind of clustering? Magnalites?

Both motor combinations will get it to 3K, give or take 50'. So really, the only question is: Which clusters better? (oh, and with only two G80s, it gets 2K...)

I plan on using motor deployment, with a Perfectflite timer for backup.

So do you have any tips and tricks for clustering mid and high power rocket motors? Any suggestions will be apreciated. thanks in advance!

 

[BlueNinja]

Originally posted by Neil
Well, it doesent look like I will be able to get hold of a J350 for my Nike Smoke... But, what we do have: I357T and I161W. I also have the money to buy four G80Ts or 4 G40Ws. And my rocket has four 29MM outboard motors... We all know what THAT adds up to...


Do the 29's. More SFX IMHO



So, which is easier to cluster? White lighting or Blue Thunder? And what is the best ignitor to use for this kind of clustering? Magnalites?


White lightning, Magnelites.


Both motor combinations will get it to 3K, give or take 50'. So really, the only question is: Which clusters better? (oh, and with only two G80s, it gets 2K...)


The G's.


I plan on using motor deployment, with a Perfectflite timer for backup.

So do you have any tips and tricks for clustering mid and high power rocket motors? Any suggestions will be apreciated. thanks in advance!

 

[Neil]

no no, you misunderstand... I want to CLUSTER the I161 with the G40s, or the I357T with the G80s... Not just the Is or just the Gs...

White lighting WOULD look cooler, IMHO...

 

[BlueNinja]

Oh.

Right on! Use the G40's, G80's are LOUD but don't have much flame.

 

[Neil]

But... How fast will they light with Magnalites...??? Thats pretty important...

But yea, if its doable, I would like to fly it on White Lighting motors...

Blue Thunder motors make such a loud thump, if five of them lit at once, I would proabably think it was a CATO!!

 

[n3tjm]

Blue Thunders are easier to light... but White Lightning is a lot cooler.

Here are my two recommended choices

I357 and G80's

or

I161 and G40's

Do not mix the bt with wl.

Also, the I161 will take longer to start then the G40 with a single fold igniter... so make sure you do one fold before dipping, and I usueally put a sliver of BT in it to help out

Great Motor, the I161. I love it

Have Fun

 

[Ryan S.]

BN, white lightening is harder to light

Doug, I didnt think he planned on mixing them

I say use Blue Thunder, White lightening is cool, BUt EVERYBODY clusters and flys white lightening, it is all I see these days.

I love blue flame motors, and this will have an awesome flame, when cluster Blue Thunders it seems the flame gets pushed way way back behind the rocket, maybe even 2 feet before the flame.

PLus 151 pounds of thrust off that pad will be much cooler than a mere 71. And it is your first cluster, Blue Thunder will be easier

 

[n3tjm]

Niel, here is the ultimate solution to your problem; do them both .

BT flight first, then the WL Flight

 

[Ryan S.]

Why didnt I think of that?

 

[BlueNinja]

Oh, I always thought WL was easier.

 

[Ryan S.]

no not at all. Blue thunder propellant (at least that I know of) has a higher AP percentage as well as a burn rate catalyst (copper chromate) this makes the propellant faster and easier to light. Also, WL tends to oxidize on the surface, making it even harder to light. Ever notice White chuffing? You wouldnt want that in a cluster.

ANother thing, have you ever noticed people wrap blue propellant around their igniters? That is because blue is easy to ignite

 

[Neil]

So why on earth did you want the WL propelant from that CATO'd F25, Doug? You said it was for ignitors... But everything I have ever read (Modern High Power Rocketry, mostly) says that Blue Thunder is best... Why did you need the white lighting?

How much difference does age of the propellant matter in making ignitors? I have some E27Ts that I could easily ( and cheaply) cut up, but they are several years old...

Would I be better off cutting up an H242 or something?

I havnt got enough money for four G80s AND four G40s, sad to say...

is the Hellfire pyrogen compatable with the Magnalite wires?

And do I need N28Bs or N28Fs for Ematches for BP charges? I can never remember...

Oh, and I guess ill go with the G80s if they are really easier to light...

(and I know enough about clustering to know not to mix propellant types... )

 

[Neil]

Well, if I go with BT propellant...


Itll be one heck of a BANG off the pad

This is gonna be the coolest flight I have ever done...

I wish I had a video camera... Ill just have do use the little 24X360 pixel video feature on my camera... I *HAVE* to get the audio of this monster lifting off...

 

[n3tjm]

Originally posted by Neil
So why on earth did you want the WL propelant from that CATO'd F25, Doug? You said it was for ignitors... But everything I have ever read (Modern High Power Rocketry, mostly) says that Blue Thunder is best... Why did you need the white lighting?

Same rason why you would use slow thermalite and on an igniter. On the hard to light motors, like Green Gorilla and Reds, I usually put a sliver of BT and WL on the igniter. The BT burns very quick (like half a second), while the WL burns longer. That was one thing I liked about quickburst igniters... how long they burn... but... they don't have a long shlf life. They absorb moisture from the air.

 

[Neil]

Interesting.

So should I cut up an E27 or an H242 for making the ignitor?

Should I tie the sliver of BT onto the ignitor, then dip it, or dip it, then put the BT on?

And how much BT should I use?

 

[n3tjm]

NO!!!

The E27 is GOLD!!! Those are awesome motors.
And why do you want to waste a H242?

When do you plan to fly this bad boy? I could give you some BLUE THUNDA

 

[Ryan S.]

use oxral ematches

Blue thunder is all you need.

 

[Frodo2801]

Neil where are the pictures? We want pictures or we'll have to send over Tony and Vinnie.

 

[karatekicker271]

Originally posted by Neil


So do you have any tips and tricks for clustering mid and high power rocket motors? Any suggestions will be apreciated. thanks in advance!

Well, yo probably already knew this but just in case, be sure you have some way to keep the ignitors in the motors!!Im no sure exactly why (I have an idea, Marv told me but i kinda forgot) but it is important you do and it makes sense

 

[Neil]

Labor Day, Cherryfield Maine.

Why are the E27s so valuable? You cant even fly them at club launches...

Tradja for pretty much anything that still has certification...

So do I tie the BT to the Oxorals or something? Will that fit into the nozzles of the G80?

 

[Neil]

Erm...

/neil scrambles for pictures

I havnt got them onto the camera yet... Itll take me a little while (it will be later tonight) to p ost the pics



Oh, the expanding foam closed off all the vent holes and kept expanding, expanding the tubing between the fin slots about half an inch between two of the fins. How much of a difference will that make? It made a HUGE mess, but I got it all better now, so its just two 8" long bumps...

 

[Ryan S.]

no they wont, and they also wont light the BT, you need an ignitor, Oxrals and all ematches only light things that are super easy to light. Such as pyrogen if they are dipped

 

[Neil]

But... You just said...

"use Oxoral ematches

Blue thunder is all you need"

So Im guessing you DIDNT mean that all you need to light a cluster was oxorals and blue thunder...

So Oxoral ematches for the deployment, and Blue Thunder for the igniters?

 

[xenon]

I've light about 3 G80s with bare, undipped, unaltered in any way, N20F and/or N28BRs. Not a failure yet, though I wouldn't try it in a cluster.

So yes Ryan, they can light BT and I've had very limited success lighting WL with N20Fs. Although I would Not use them in a cluster

 

[AlexM]

I just clustered two f21 wl motors with succes, and both lit instantly. Four would look really cool, but it does seem like it would be a little hard and unreliable. Personally, I would put in two white lightnings, two blu thunders, and the I. then i would light the i and two white lightnings on the ground and airstart the two blue thunders. probably not anymore reliable, but it would be really cool.

 

[Ryan S.]

Originally posted by Neil
But... You just said...

"use Oxoral ematches

Blue thunder is all you need"

So Im guessing you DIDNT mean that all you need to light a cluster was oxorals and blue thunder...

So Oxoral ematches for the deployment, and Blue Thunder for the igniters?

yeah I said use them for your altimeter, not to light your motor. You need a dipped match for motors