3D Printing Nike Smoke Nosecone Build (sorta)

[frogglicker]

can you design a 4 inch?

As soon as I finished the 3-in design, I was looking at it and said, "Man, a 4" or 5.5" would be killer." I'm just poking my head into L2 territory so, so fin engineering is what I am most concerned about. For a 5.5" on a K or L, would tip-to-tip FG be advisable? It would definitely give me the motivation to push further. I will be doing a 4" version soon, but I have to get this built, then my Punisher ready for L2 flight. My summer is getting quickly booked.

 

[frogglicker]

The v1.2 Nosecone MID section is fixed. This will definitely work, so I will be posting that version on Printables soon

 

[Zyzzyva1000]

As soon as I finished the 3-in design, I was looking at it and said, "Man, a 4" or 5.5" would be killer." I'm just poking my head into L2 territory so, so fin engineering is what I am most concerned about. For a 5.5" on a K or L, would tip-to-tip FG be advisable? It would definitely give me the motivation to push further. I will be doing a 4" version soon, but I have to get this built, then my Punisher ready for L2 flight. My summer is getting quickly booked.

Just my anecdotal experience, but I recently printed all the parts for a 6" big daddy upscale (so big fins). I did a 6" Fatboy too and it had a fin issue after a slightly hard landing (I think plywood fins would have had the same issue). So for the big daddy I did a tip to tip FG layup over the printed fins. John Coker has a thread on here showing bonding strength of epoxy/FG to different filaments. I don't think its necessarily needed, but my 6" big daddy weighs close to 10 lbs so its not so much the going up part, but the coming down thats harder with printed fins and that size/weight.

 

[frogglicker]

Just my anecdotal experience, but I recently printed all the parts for a 6" big daddy upscale (so big fins). I did a 6" Fatboy too and it had a fin issue after a slightly hard landing (I think plywood fins would have had the same issue). So for the big daddy I did a tip to tip FG layup over the printed fins. John Coker has a thread on here showing bonding strength of epoxy/FG to different filaments. I don't think its necessarily needed, but my 6" big daddy weighs close to 10 lbs so its not so much the going up part, but the coming down thats harder with printed fins and that size/weight.

I've seen that video. That's where I learned about it. I have never worked with FG before but I saw a Rockets Vlog vid that went through it as well, and it seems pretty straightforward. I might give it a go on a rocket that I'm willing to goof on.

 

[Zyzzyva1000]

I've seen that video. That's where I learned about it. I have never worked with FG before but I saw a Rockets Vlog vid that went through it as well, and it seems pretty straightforward. I might give it a go on a rocket that I'm willing to goof on.

It's not hard. I keep it simple. I get 4 oz FG cloth on amazon in bulk, and use Zpoxy finishing epoxy (there are plenty of other options, but I like how this one works). I make a paper template for the area and use a rolling cutter and mat (borrowed from my wife) to cut the FG pieces. I go to dollar tree and get the $1.25 paint brushes, and put a tiny bit of the epoxy down, lay down the cloth and then just paint it on and spread the epoxy out so its covered, but not dripping excess. Then I lay a piece of wax paper on top and use a spreader/credit card to smooth it out. About 2 - 2 1/2 hours later you can peel off the wax paper easily and use a razor blade the trim the excess FG. its never perfect like if you did it under vacuum, but it works fairly well (and then I just use some bond to fill any surface imperfections. Oh and I do it after fillets.

 

[frogglicker]

It's not hard. I keep it simple. I get 4 oz FG cloth on amazon in bulk, and use Zpoxy finishing epoxy (there are plenty of other options, but I like how this one works). I make a paper template for the area and use a rolling cutter and mat (borrowed from my wife) to cut the FG pieces. I go to dollar tree and get the $1.25 paint brushes, and put a tiny bit of the epoxy down, lay down the cloth and then just paint it on and spread the epoxy out so its covered, but not dripping excess. Then I lay a piece of wax paper on top and use a spreader/credit card to smooth it out. About 2 - 2 1/2 hours later you can peel off the wax paper easily and use a razor blade the trim the excess FG. its never perfect like if you did it under vacuum, but it works fairly well (and then I just use some bond to fill any surface imperfections. Oh and I do it after fillets.

That's extremely helpful! I wanna do it now! Too many things to cram into this weekend, but I will document the attempt here.

 

[John Kemker]

As soon as I finished the 3-in design, I was looking at it and said, "Man, a 4" or 5.5" would be killer." I'm just poking my head into L2 territory so, so fin engineering is what I am most concerned about. For a 5.5" on a K or L, would tip-to-tip FG be advisable? It would definitely give me the motivation to push further. I will be doing a 4" version soon, but I have to get this built, then my Punisher ready for L2 flight. My summer is getting quickly booked.

Definitely do a 5.5"! I already have a 3" (Estes PSII with glassed airframe) and an all-fiberglass 4". A 5.5" would be a great addition to the fleet! I already have an LOC payload section for said rocket.

 

[cwbullet]

As soon as I finished the 3-in design, I was looking at it and said, "Man, a 4" or 5.5" would be killer." I'm just poking my head into L2 territory so, so fin engineering is what I am most concerned about. For a 5.5" on a K or L, would tip-to-tip FG be advisable? It would definitely give me the motivation to push further. I will be doing a 4" version soon, but I have to get this built, then my Punisher ready for L2 flight. My summer is getting quickly booked.

I look for to it. I have a printer capable up to 8 inch

 

[frogglicker]

Well why choose? 4 and 5.5 then? I'll get started on the designs.

 

[OzHybrid]

While it can be done, it's definitely frustrating without an enclosure. I have a heated enclosure and it prints as easily as PLA. I know there is some concern about VOCs, but I have never found it to be an issue (and I even run a little air purifier that theoretically displays air quality, in the same room). Warping is definitely an issue. On my old printer I still had an enclosure, but it wasn't heated so I would run a little space heater in front. PETG may be your best bet, you can always sand and use some high fill primer to fix the appearance.

ASA is in the ABS family. There's also Easy ABS which is a different A,B,S ratio., lower temp similar to PETG characteristics. Also soluble in acetone unlike ABS+. Not used either, but ASA and EasyABS are on the list.

 

[Brent]

Almost done with this 4-inch Nike cone. All that is left is eye bolt and epoxy the shoulder in. This cone is replacing the Composite Warehouse cone on my 4-inch Nike kit. I had ordered a replacement but never got it. All is good though; I got my money refunded. Chuck it may fly next weekend in SC.

 

[Brent]

One more shot.

 

[frogglicker]

I have started the build... actually, I started this morning. I'm in the middle of putting the fins on, but my son needed some dad-time, so we're chilling for a bit. When I started dry-fitting the MMT, I recognized that that anchor point for the 54mm FWD CR wasn't going to cut it. I designed an alternate with a cutout for 13mmx3mm tubular nylon. It turned out better than expected. I've updated the Printables model with the new part.

I will do a proper build here later, but I can't drop a post without an update pic.

View attachment 1720220322464.jpeg
MMT with Centering Rings and Shock Cord

 

[frogglicker]

Almost done with this 4-inch Nike cone. All that is left is eye bolt and epoxy the shoulder in. This cone is replacing the Composite Warehouse cone on my 4-inch Nike kit. I had ordered a replacement but never got it. All is good though; I got my money refunded. Chuck it may fly next weekend in SC.View attachment 654585

I love the nosecone, @Brent. Any chance for the STLs? (asking ain't stealing)

 

[thzero]

As soon as I finished the 3-in design, I was looking at it and said, "Man, a 4" or 5.5" would be killer." I'm just poking my head into L2 territory so, so fin engineering is what I am most concerned about. For a 5.5" on a K or L, would tip-to-tip FG be advisable? It would definitely give me the motivation to push further. I will be doing a 4" version soon, but I have to get this built, then my Punisher ready for L2 flight. My summer is getting quickly booked.

I used fiberglass and epoxy on 3d printed fins for a 5.5" project that's flown on a J350.

https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/my-l2-project.167503/

Also I on my bigger nose cones, if just printing in white or grey I do the lamination on the outside to give a nice sandable and printable surface, and epoxy on inside of coupler and joint.

At least one nose cone that hasn't flown has fiberglass reinforced inside at the coupler joint as theoretically that's one of the weak points.

 

[frogglicker]

I started weighing the rocket late last night. It came out at just under 1200g without the motor or chute. The nosecone is over 1/3 that weight, so I will try to reprint one for tomorrow's launch. I reduced the walls and infill. Since the parachute will be attached to the shock cord, if the nosecone fails, it's not the end of the world. I may not get paint on it, just lamination, epoxy, and some primer, if there's time.

I'm keeping the existing one for bigger motors, but as it is now, it's sitting around 2.6cal and if it weathercocks into old man Jenkin's backyard, it will just cause trouble for the club and no one needs that... AGAIN!

I'm starting sanding and painting today.

 

[Zyzzyva1000]

I used fiberglass and epoxy on 3d printed fins for a 5.5" project that's flown on a J350.

https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/my-l2-project.167503/

Also I on my bigger nose cones, if just printing in white or grey I do the lamination on the outside to give a nice sandable and printable surface, and epoxy on inside of coupler and joint.

At least one nose cone that hasn't flown has fiberglass reinforced inside at the coupler joint as theoretically that's one of the weak points.

The reinforcing the nosecone coupler/shoulder parts is key. I had a 6 inch printed nose cone (with a good amount of nose weight) crack the shoulder off. So I repaired it will a thick printed coupler. On my other 6" I cut a piece of the Uline shipping tube body and used that and some epoxy as the reinforcement. I will have to design in some reinforcements at the shoulder in future large nose cones (it hasn't been an issues on 3 or 4" and smaller.

 

[Brent]

The reinforcing the nosecone coupler/shoulder parts is key. I had a 6 inch printed nose cone (with a good amount of nose weight) crack the shoulder off. So I repaired it will a thick printed coupler. On my other 6" I cut a piece of the Uline shipping tube body and used that and some epoxy as the reinforcement. I will have to design in some reinforcements at the shoulder in future large nose cones (it hasn't been an issues on 3 or 4" and smaller.

I foamed the inside of the cone. I did leave space for an AV bay if I decide to add a cable cutter for dual deploy. I originally used head end deployment on the fiberglass nose cone. Not sure how a 3D printed cone would hold up to that.

 

[Zyzzyva1000]

I foamed the inside of the cone. I did leave space for an AV bay if I decide to add a cable cutter for dual deploy. I originally used head end deployment on the fiberglass nose cone. Not sure how a 3D printed cone would hold up to that.

I foamed a few of my smaller ones. But lately I have been putting screw in AV bays in all my nose cones. For my larger ones I used a 3 inch tube inside to contain the AV bay (so I wouldn't need to print something so large) and mounted it with centering rings. It actually helps to add some structural support and still leaves access in case I need to add nose weight temporarily.

 

[frogglicker]

I foamed the inside of the cone. I did leave space for an AV bay if I decide to add a cable cutter for dual deploy. I originally used head end deployment on the fiberglass nose cone. Not sure how a 3D printed cone would hold up to that.

How much heat does the oam generate when it kicks? Do you know if its RF transparent? I assume it is, but assumptions lead to broken hearts.

 

[Brent]

How much heat does the oam generate when it kicks? Do you know if its RF transparent? I assume it is, but assumptions lead to broken hearts.

I put the cone in a 5-gallon bucket of water tip down for the first poor of foam just to be safe. It did ok. The second poor, I still had it in the water but not sure if it affected it. The wall thickness where hollow is 6mm with 100% infill.

 

[Zyzzyva1000]

How much heat does the oam generate when it kicks? Do you know if its RF transparent? I assume it is, but assumptions lead to broken hearts.

It gets warm, but wasn't enough to cause any problems for ASA or ABS (never tried it with other filaments). I am pretty certain it's RF transparent, because I found RF antenna covers etc made from polyurethane foam (which is what this is). I just buy Sika fence post foam from HD or Lowes and cut the bag into its 2 component pieces, and then pour each one into a disposable Tupperware. You can add a bit of water if you want it to be less dense. I keep some dental syringes around to draw up each component and then mix in small dixie cups.

 

[frogglicker]

I know I haven't done the build part of the build thread, but I did get the Nike Smoke in the air today. I am calling it FURY because of the anger sharks it generated while finishing. The body tube is the same size as LOC tubes but NOT the same quality. I should have known better, but this was a prototype and it's a 50 yrd rocket -- Looks good from 50 yrds away. The point is that it flew great! The Eggtimer Quantum put it at 1506ft on an H135. I'm short about 700 ft, making my delay long but no damage. We had some issues with the rail grabbing and the OR sim might not be completely accurate. I will continue to work on the sim.
The YouTube vid will be coming soon... and the build, but here are some pictures from the launch.

 

[frogglicker]

Build Log Part 1:

On Friday, July 5th, 2024, I took all the printed parts and moved them to the dining room table. First, I started with the body tube. I have alluded to the body tube in a couple of posts, but I want to point out here that if you have no other option, than the OfficeMax mailing tubes, I can say they work. Not well, but they work. They are half the price of a LOC tube and the quality shows. LOC tubes are the bomb where the OfficeMax tubes are 1/2 step away from garbage. You will see why shortly. I slipped the cutting guide onto the body tube. The guide's slots or off-center, shifted more to one end than the other. the end with more meet is the aft end. I used the guide to cut out the slots and it worked great.

I started to peel the skin off the tube but this didn't work. I tried to sand it. No workie. This ended up causing me all sorts of issues. Again, this was from using a cheap tube.

Moving on to the nosecone, I taped off the sections that I did not want laminating epoxy on, then mixed up some TotalBoat. I gave the three parts a fair amount of epoxy, but not so much that it would run around. It did a pretty good job of staying in place. Once the epoxy kicked off, I took off the tape and prepped the joints with 120 grit sandpaper, then whipped up a batch of my 15min System3 epoxy and joined them all together, finally tipping the nosecone upside down and letting it cure. There was no warping from the epoxy kicking off.


I weighed the nosecone (with the AVBay) and it came in at a whopping 531g. OUCH. I need to rethink this. In the meantime, I moved on to the MMT.

I dry-fit the parts and the centering rings were a bit looser than I liked. I got the aft and middle rings tacked into place with CA. Then I noticed that the forward ring's eyebolt hole just wasn't going to cut it on a 54mm - 3" interface. I redesigned the forward CR to accept a 13mm x 4mm tubular nylon shock cord and printed it out. It is a much better solution. I got the forward ring tacked in and started to epoxy each ring leaving the area with the fins alone, to prevent interference, and left the aft end of the aft ring for later. Once everything had cured enough, I fished the first of 15 feet of shock cord through the notch in the forward ring. Its length was from the forward ring to the mid ring then doubled over on itself halfway back. It was slathered in epoxy, then taped down to make sure it stayed put. Once everything was good, I test-fit the MMT with the tube and then used my highly calibrated epoxy deployment device to provide a generous amount of epoxy into the tube just before the resting point of the forward centering ring. Once the MMT was fully placed, this created a great fillet on the forward end of the forward CR. After sliding the forward ring into the body tube, I scooped up epoxy with my popsicle stick and ate some... wait.. no. I applied it to the inside of the body tube between the fin slots. I repeated this as I slid the final CR into place. I checked my alignment to the fin slot's forward and aft boundaries using a fin on all 4 slots. and let it sit. After the epoxy set up, I checked the fillet on the forward CR and it was good. I flipped the tube over and flooded the aft end, making sure to get good coverage. Using a popsicle stick, I pulled some epoxy up onto the end of the motor tube and then slipped the retainer ring on. Again set everything to dry.

 

[frogglicker]

 

[frogglicker]

Looking at @Brent and @ljwilley 's nosecones, I wanted epaulets too, so I created detached ones, to add to the existing nosecones I have. I also incorporated them into a modified nosecone aft section. STLs are on my printables page or just grab them here if you already have the other STLs.