New to Model Rockets!

[Boppa]

Hi all

Ive decided to give model rockets a try but i have no idea where to start! :-(

Im not new to the model scene & have built RC cars/boats/planes etc but ive never tried the model rockets & ive only ever seen them in action by watching vids off the net which was enough for me to say "Yes, i'll have some of that"!

So id like to ask a few questions that i hope some of you experts & beginners alike! can answer for me

Please excuse any silly questions i might ask, but like ive said im a total newbie & need as much info/advice i can gather for choosing my 1st rocket

Motors:
Ive noticed theres many different types of Motors but I also came to realise (after browsing net etc) that some require an Explosives license!?
So as a "newbie!" Whats the most powerful motor Im able to use (depending on what rocket i choose) thats Legal without having an Explosives License! ?

Rocket Kits:
Like most RC models, Rocket kits ive noticed come in similar packages: Ready to fly/Run etc & then different skill levels, 1,2,3 etc. Some kits ive looked at such as the "Blue Ninja" is a ready to run & im guessing this just pretty much clips together? But what i want to know is how much of a learning curve is it from each skill level, eg:
Is it ALOT more complicated to try a skill level 1 kit than a RTF kit or is it just a little more complicated?

With RC Cars/Boats some required alot of skill ( & patience for that matter!) but the rockets im most interested in are the ones that look similar to the Blue Ninja/Black Brant II, although ive been told that the Black Brant II is a complicated rocket to have due to the motor? But these are the types of rockets I will want as i like the look of them So what is the hardest/trickiest part to build about these types of rocket kits if i was to choose a kit with skill level 1 or 2 or 3 etc ?

Choosing my 1st rocket!:
As said above I definately want one which looks similar to the Blue ninja/Black Brant II, but the other thing id like is one that doesnt shoot up at a silly speed during take off, I'd like one (if its possible) thats has a steady slow take off (like the real thing!)...is this down to the rocket, or the motors?

Also after owning a couple of nitro RC cars/planes over the years...theres nothing better than the noise! ... Which leads me to my next question,

Id like a rocket that gives off a nice loud sound (especially during take off!) i dont mean VERY loud but i dont want one that sounds like a £5 firework! & prefable ALOT of smoke! The most fun for me will be the take off, watching the smoke & the noise so the more the better ...but again is this down to the rocket or the motor?

Prices!:
For me this will be the main decider! (Upkeep of 5 kids aint cheap!)

Rocket Kit: As far as i know, The rockets themselves I can use again & again with no need to buy replacement parts after each flight? If this is so, then the rocket Price dont matter to me so much & to be honest im kind of suprised how cheap the rocket kits actually are.

Motors: Im guessing this where I will be throwing money at each time i want to Launch it, This is where im most confused at the moment.. ive seen single use motors/refillable motors etc, So would be grateful if someone could explain what the difference is between each type ?

Safety!
Any tips here much appreciated but also where i live there are no Rocket clubs near by, therefore i will be resorting to local Fields thats near bye, they arent small fields but what im worrying about is losing my rocket! can they drift far on decent or is it not too bad?

& Finally......

Which Rocket kit/Motor would you recommend for my 1st kit?

Is the Blue Ninja a good kit to start with as im impressed that according to what ive read it can take a C/D or even E motors, but i will most likely be using C motors as these arent too expensive & will probably only use the D or E motors once in a while.

Or what other kits you recommend?
Please also let me know what motors/launch pad and anyhting else needed for launch are best to use so i can compare prices & have an idea of what the overall price im looking at will be

I Live in the UK (Noth West) but i cant find any info on any model rocket clubs thats not too far away, if anyone knows please let me know

thanks in advance guys/gals any help much appreciated

Bops

 

[brianc]

Welcome!!

For a quick intro to model rocketry, check out these two sites:

https://www.flyrockets.com/
https://www.jcrocket.com/welcome.shtml

EMRR has a glossary of terms that you may find helpful- https://www.rocketreviews.com/cgi-bin/flattips/glossary.cgi

There are 'Sticky' posts at the top of the Coffee House and Vendor Forums
that have many other links to check out...

The TRF Search function (button at the top of the page) can also help if
you're looking for something specific. It's probably already been asked.

Then be sure to ask questions here on TRF (you've already got a good start)!
Let me attempt a few-

You can fly up G motors without a High Power Rocketry (HPR) cert. With a cert
from TRA or NAR, you can still obtain and fly many motors without a LEUP.

The skill levels on each kit can vary depending on the manufacturer. For example,
Estes often rates a easy kit at a higher level, simply because they think only older
kids should attempt it. Check the reviews on EMRR for any kit you're considering.

The Blue Ninja is a great little work horse! It's a great first or second kit. https://www.rocketreviews.com/cgi-bin/rvwbuild/rvwbuild.cgi?est_blue_ninja.html

Motors that produce lots of smoke and noise will generally be HPR (search for Smokey Sam )

Where are you located? Are you sure there's no clubs nearby?
https://www.nar.org/NARseclist.asp Plug in your zip code and check!

HEH- I didn't pick up on your "£5 firework" comment, so my response falls squarely on
the US regs... Followup comments from the UK members have good info. (thanks guys!)


Once again- Welcome to the forum!


EDIT: added 'sticky' info. And later UK stuff.

 

[Bazookadale]

In the UK contact www.ukra.org.uk

 

[WiK]

Hi there,

As far as Motors go, in the UK the largest motor you can purchase without an Explosives Licence is an Estes E motor. The larger motors are made out of a different propellant, which requires the Licence to purchase and/or store. But smaller motors can always be clustered to make more powerful rockets!

Ready To Fly (RTF) kits require next to no assembley whatsoever, all you have to do is install the parachute and recovery wadding, insert a motor and you're ready to go. Estes produce Starter Sets, which contain everything you need to get launching rockets, except motors and batteries. You should be able to purchase some motors from the hobby shop the Starter Set was in. Skill Level 1 kits aren't very complicated, and are easily put together in an afternoon. Just be sure to follow the instructions and use the right type of glue.

The speed of the rocket is down to both the rocket and the motor you put in it. For instance, if you put a C motor in a small kit, say the Estes Yankee kit, it will go over 1000ft. If you put an identical C motor in a Fat Boy kit, it won't go nearly as high.

Noise is down to the motor, Black Powder motors (A thru E) aren't quiet, but they're not deafening. The larger motors that require an Explosives Licence are much louder. Usually, the bigger the motor, the louder it is.

Model Rocketry is fairly cheap, an Estes Starter Set (which contains an RTF rocket, launch controller, and launch pad) is around £25 in a high-street hobby shop.
Motor price depends on their power, but in a hobby shop, a 3 pack of A B or C motors is usually under £7. Estes motors are Single Use, which means once its been used, you just take it out of the rocket and put a new one in. You'll be left with the carboard tube with some burnt propellant stuck in it, I tend to hang on to my spent motors, they smell nice and can come in handy when building new rockets.
Refillable (commonly known as Reloadable) motors are motors where you buy a motor Case, which is reusable, then put a Reload kit in it. For those, you need an Explosives Licence.

For your first kit, I would reccomend getting a Starter Set with an RTF rocket, just because it comes with everything you need. And the RTF is good, even if you just fly it once, you can get some experience prepping/launching a rocket that you know has been built well. For a first kit, I would reccomend something that flys on A/B/C motors rather than D or E motors.

To find the club nearest you, take a look at https://www.ukra.org.uk/groups.html

Some good websites are:

https://www.ukra.org.uk/index.htm Website of the United Kingdom Rocketry Assoc.

https://www.rockets-things.co.uk/ Rockets and Things, an excellent UK rocket shop.

Hope that helps, and don't hesitate to ask more questions.

Phil

 

[flyr98]

"Id like a rocket that gives off a nice loud sound (especially during take off!) i dont mean VERY loud but i dont want one that sounds like a £5 firework! & prefable ALOT of smoke! The most fun for me will be the take off, watching the smoke & the noise so the more the better ...but again is this down to the rocket or the motor?"

Get an Aerotech G40W. The W is for White Lightning. This propellant is very loud and gives off a cloud of thick white smoke.
I think this is what you are looking for.

 

[m85476585]

Welcome to the forum. You came to the right place!

It's going be hard to answer so many questions at once!

You should start with a starter set. They include everything you need, even a few engines. For Estes kits and starter sets, the skill levels go E2X,1,2,3. There is not a huge difference between skill levels. For a first rocket, I recommend skill level 1. E2X kits (like the blue ninja) will have a lot of plastic. The Estes Alpha has instructions specially written for beginners. You can read it here: https://www.estesrockets.com/images/alpha.pdf

For Estes rockets, there are 4 sizes of engines: Mini (1/4A, 1/2A, A), regular (A, B, C), large (C11, D), and E. For a first kit, you might want to get one that uses regular engines. They are most common and relatively cheap.

You should probably wait before you get into mid-power and high-power. They are louder and bigger, but harder. E, F, and G are considered midpower.

The Black Brant 2 is fairly difficult and I would not recommend it as a first rocket.

A well built rocket should last many flights and the only thing you need to buy is engines and wadding.

You could start with a ready-to-fly (rtf) rocket, then build your own.

 

[WiK]

Originally posted by flyr98

Get an Aerotech G40W. The W is for White Lightning. This propellant is very loud and gives off a cloud of thick white smoke.
I think this is what you are looking for.

Keep in mind that he is here in the UK, where Aerotech motors are rare, at the moment, and they require an Explosives Licence, no matter what size they are.

Phil

 

[gpoehlein]

I think I'd recommend sticking to Estes for a first rocket - they are the most available rocket out there (you can buy them at most hobby stores, and the E2X kits are very easy to build for the beginner). If you can find one, I'd recommend the Launchables set (catalog 1452). It costs $35.99 US (you do the math for the conversion to pounds) and comes with two rockets and the launcher. One of the two rockets in the set is the Outlaw, and since it is made with a BT-56, it should give nice slow and low flights on an A8-3. With E2X kits, you actually build the rocket, but don't have to paint it (the body tube, fins and nose cone come pre-colored).

For really slow launches, you have to go to a full fledged kit like the Big Bertha - it gives nice slow launches, but the fins are balsa and you have to paint the rocket yourself, so it is a bit harder to build than an E2X (still not that hard to build - anyone with a bit of modeling experience can build it with no trouble). Of course, you'd still have to buy a launcher as well, so that's why I like the starter kits for beginners.

Greg

 

[Boppa]

hi again & ty for warm welcome

& thanks alot for the info, its already gave me 100% more knowledge on moddle rockets than what I had before i made my original post

As for rocket clubs ive never heard of any near where i live, but then again i wouldnt know as ive never been interested until now, I live in Chester which is near Noth Wales so i will have a good look at some of those links

Flyr98 seems to know what im looking for in terms of "Realism" but then i need an explosive license for that type of motor so i guess thats a no-go! .

Will probably go for one of the RTF kits like you guys recommend as they seem to have all i need for my 1st launch... but i will still look about for something that takes the Regular A, B or C motors as I can see after 1 or 2 launches with the RTF im going to want bigger/better

If/when the time comes i would like to try a bigger sized motor that req's a Explosive license, how do go about getting one (if its possible) not that im bothered as im sure its a long way off but always good to know before hand

Thanks alot for help guys/gals & expect to see me posting alot more *newbie* questions in the near future!

Bops

 

[WiK]

You can apply for an Aquire Only (allows you to purchase the motor and use it on site, but not transport/store it) or an Aquire and Keep (which allows you to purchase and store/transport motors, and is more complex and expensive than an Aquire Only) from your local Police headquaters. I think there are more details on the UKRA website.

If you can make the trip, there's a big rocket event on the 24/25th in Heckington, Linolnshire. Several rocket vendors will be attending, lots of HPR stuff going up and plenty of freindly, helpful rocketeers. Great fun!

Edit: More info on the even, K-Lob here https://www.ukra.org.uk/events/klob.shtml

Phil

 

[jflis]

Bops,

Welcome to TRF and to the hobby of model rocketry. You're going to like it here

THe recommendations for an Estes starter set are right on the money as they will get you everything you need to get started. If you are acustom to building things and know how to work with wood and wires, it is not difficult to build your OWN launch pad and controller and there are many plans available here on TRF. If you want to send me an email I could send you a schematic for a suitable unit that can be built with easy to find parts.

I also invite you to visit our company, FlisKits, Inc. at https://fliskits.com/

We have a wide array of model rockets ranging from skill level 1 through 4 and in size from less than 2 inches tall (5cm) to over 7feet (about 2.5meters) using a cluster of 3 D or E motors (that's a screamer, the Richter Recker )

have fun and don't fret about asking questions. That's why we're here!

jim

 

[adrian]

Originally posted by Boppa
Ive decided to give model rockets a try but i have no idea where to start! :-([/B[

This appears to be incorrect - you have found exactly the right place to start, i.e. this forum. Welcome!

You could try getting in touch with Wirral Rocket Society. Otherwise, if you're in or near Wales, look out for Rhysduk on this forum - he's from Wales, too.

If you're using local fields, be sure to get permission from the owner first, whether that's a farmer or the council!

As other folks have said, get an Estes Starter Set to begin with. You get a launch pad and controller. You also get a basic rocket, but what you're really investing in is the pad and controller. These will continue to serve you when you buy other rockets. More than ten years on, I still use my Estes pad (with a couple of very simple modifications) to launch big models.

After that, don't limit yourself to Estes and Quest, nor to what you can buy in the model shops - there are much better rocket kits out there! I'll second the recommendation for Rockets and Things. (Among other stuff, they stock the aforementioned FlisKits. )

As for the Blue Ninja, it can take C class motors, but they're the physically larger, more expensive C11's. I don't think it can take an E without modification, having recently seen someone building one. The Estes Big Bertha or Semroc Goliath would probably be better for you.

You don't necessarily need a bigger motor to make more smoke, flame and noise. Multiple motors, i.e. a cluster, will do it too. And that doesn't need an explosive licence. (But it does need a more powerful controller than the basic Estes one...)

 

[phil]

Adding to Adrian's post. If you're at the other end of Wales to WRS then there's also FOG.

https://hometown.aol.co.uk/fogrocketry/index.html

 

[JRThro]

Chester is just 5 - 10 km south of South Wirral and maybe 20 - 30 km from Wirral itself, so he should be able to link up with someone from WRS if he so desires.

Do you guys use km or miles over there, anyway? It seems strange not to use English units of measurement in England... plus, if the temperature is given in degrees Celcius and one's weight is given in stone, how can an American know which units to use for distance?

 

[powderburner]

I agree with the comments already made by m85476585 and gpoehlein, it's better to start a bit small.

You are probably ahead of the game already if you have dabbled with other 'flying' hobbies and if you have built anything else. Many techniques and building materials are exactly the same.

If you want something big and noisy you might start with an Estes kit like the Blue Ninja. However (and this really is important), ***DO NOT USE THE PARACHUTE*** that comes with the kit. Replace this with a length of streamer like shiny silver mylar. Or, build the rocket so it breaks apart in the middle (tether the two pieces together with the shock cord!) so it will tumble down. Either way, if you launch your rocket on a C11 or D12 there is a very good chance that a parachute will hold it up in the air long enough to drift into the top of a tree (not a good thing).

Until you get the feel for what size/impulse motors you can use and still recover rockets successfully at your field, it is probably a good idea to stick with a few smaller birds and 1/2A-A-B motors. There are many great starter designs by Estes, Quest, FlisKits, and many others. Don't pick one that is too small (Estes Viking?) because the minimum-diameter rockets will go most of the way to Heaven, even with just an A motor. It is important, especially for kids, to get the rocket back and not get into the bad habit of deliberately overpowering them to lose them on purpose. The FlisKits Rhino would be good, or the Estes Big Bertha, or Quest Big Betty or BrightHawk would all be good first rockets for your kids.

 

[Richard]

Hey Boppa;

Adrian mentioned the Wirral Rocketry Society, but not that we are launching this coming Saturday

If the weather is at all friendly it should be well worth coming along, and you are welcome to!

 

[sandman]

Boppa,

Welcome to the Forum.

Now when it comes to =scale= like the Black Brant II, (one of my favorites) the Estes kit is not that difficult even for a newbie if you've built other flying models.

As for flying the Black Brant II...that's a whole other cricket match!

It's designed for the "D" motor and she SCOOTS!! usually they just plain dissapear on that motor although...I have got mine back a few times.

But don't let it scare you away from the BB II. You can use an adaptor and fly it on a much smaller motor. Buy the kit and wait until you have a few other kits under your belt before you build it.

Again, I have to recommend the same thing to you as the other newbie from the UK. (thecornflake???).

Get a Fliskit Rhino
An Estess Big Bertha or
A Quest Big Betty.

All nice low slow flyers and a lot of fun.

 

[cydermaster]

Wow - 2 new Brits on the forum in one day .... is this a record?

Welcome to one of the most addictive hobbys going.

I third the suggestion of looking at Rockets n Things, the website isn't great, but Malc's service and advice are priceless.

As for advice on an easy to build rocket which aint gonna shoot of the pad, never to be seen again, I recomend the Estes Big Bertha or Big Daddy (if you fancy fun with 24mm motors)

 

[Boppa]

great lots of info & friendly warm welcomes (unlike other forums ive used in the past!)

Will definately take the chance to visit WRS as liverpool is not too far from me, only problem i have is transport atm. Getting a train to Liverpool is no prob but how far is it from the nearest underground station ?

Beginners kits im interested in atm:

https://www.discountrocketry.com/custom-sport-kit-p-78.html?osCsid=11de8d517cb3e816eca8d3bbc3af5214
This looks nice (to me!) & has slow lift off which is what im really looking for, will have to buy launch pad/starter etc seperately, which i dont mind as i will be using them again anywayz

https://www.estesrockets.com/TandemX_Launch_Set1251.html
This one seems a good choice as it has 2 rockets, includes everything i need

I would have liked a C, D or E motor rocket, but the prices of motors seem a little expensive (for a beginner) & they are sold seperatly whereas the kits ive mentioned above the motors are cheap & come in packs 3 or 4

My next problem!
One of those 2 kits i will prob go for if you guys think they're good for a beginner, But i live in UK & so far not been able to find a UK dealer that seems to stock them, would be grateful if anyone knows of an online store in UK that stocks them, if not then will prob go for the Estes Big Bertha

 

[Fishhead]

One of my favorites:
https://www.semroc.com/Store/Scripts/default.asp

 

[huxley]

Yeah, good info here. Once you get hooked, um, I mean interested, try multiple stages - 1, 2, 3 stages are a blast!

Booster gliders too - I believe someone was making a R/C glider that boosted up on an Estes motor and glided down under control?

Payloads, altimeters, cameras, eggs, scifi, many thing await you in this hobby!

Pat
My Humble Rockets

 

[adrian]

Boppa: the Custom Sport is 0.976" (24.8mm) diameter and not particularly heavy or draggy - it would be slower than, say, an Estes Wizard, but faster than, say, the Estes Big Bertha. The larger of the two rockets in the Tandem-X set will probably have similar performance. You'll may have to wait for the Tandem-X; that Estes page says it will be available in fall 2005. Another starter set with two rockets is the Launchables set. Alternatively the NSA Starship might give you the slow lift-offs you want - and that one is listed on Rockets and Things' website. Note that starter sets do not come with motors included, you'll have to buy them separately.

Fishhead: which particular model were you trying to recommend, or were you trying to recommend Semroc as a whole? The URL in your message is for the Semroc home page. Earlier I recommended the Semroc Goliath as an alternative to the Estes Big Bertha - it has laser-cut fins and waterslide decals, making it a nicer kit to work with than the Estes model, and also has a choice of motor mounts.

 

[Richard]

Originally posted by Boppa


Will definately take the chance to visit WRS as liverpool is not too far from me, only problem i have is transport atm. Getting a train to Liverpool is no prob but how far is it from the nearest underground station ?

If you go to Liverpool you will be quite a way from the launch site; people tend to frown on us launching rockets from the city centre

On Saturday we are launching from Ormskirk. The site details are at https://www.rokits.org/launches/launchsite/

I might be able to pick you up from Chester (I live a bit down the road in Connah's Quay), but Saturdays tend to be a bit hectic for me and I wont know for sure until Friday night...

 

[Lugnut]

Originally posted by Fishhead
One of my favorites:
https://www.semroc.com/Store/Scripts/default.asp

As a Centuri nut, I can only agree. Great people, cool retro rockets. What more can you ask for.

 

[Boppa]

Originally posted by Richard
If you go to Liverpool you will be quite a way from the launch site; people tend to frown on us launching rockets from the city centre

On Saturday we are launching from Ormskirk. The site details are at https://www.rokits.org/launches/launchsite/

I might be able to pick you up from Chester (I live a bit down the road in Connah's Quay), but Saturdays tend to be a bit hectic for me and I wont know for sure until Friday night...

Hi again

Im a little bit late replying, but I wouldn't be able to make it this Saturday (already have plans with family etc) So thanks very much for trying to help with the lift

But i see your next Launch date is October 8th ..will make plans so im free for this date & by then i will hopefully have a rocket (or 2!) that i can bring along, If you could let me know of where the nearest train station is that would be great

Still deciding which one to go for 1st! but at least ive narrowed it down.... to about 6!

Im also considering purchasing a starter kit & a Low-powered rocket at same time. Will use the starter kit first so i can get a feel for it, then I will have the bigger rocket with me incase i decide i want more there & then

Look forward to meeting you (& rest of the WRS crew!) I will probably be bringing my lad too (hes 14 atm) but hes always followed suit with my interests/hobbies such as nitro models etc so im sure when he sees my new & latest hobby he will want the same so it will be a good experiance for him too, so will see you soon

Will say thanks again to everyone thats helped me, before I came across these forums i was 100% clueless of where to start! Now i know the basics & more thanks again guys/gals

Bops